as tier 2 you need to become rich

[AION]

When you are tier 2, tier 1 people will drive you crazy. It is important to separate the weed from the chaff. It will create a lot of resentment in yourself and it will cause a lot of conflict. When you are tier 2 you just need tier 1 people to be. They have their own generational arch they have to go through.

Now I kind of the get the illuminate pyramide. The upper has to separate itself from the riff raff. And this the hierachy that is needed for civilization to stand tall. Without the elite, there is no civilization.

Recently through serendipity, I met some wealthy people. And they offered to do business with me because they recognized the intellect and where they were when they started out. I noticed some inner blocks within me. It felt kind of surreal. Some rich guy just trusting me with thousands of dollars. But I didn't have the confidence and he felt that. And I just spoke it out and he appreciated it.

When you are on this turning point you need to let go of jealous people and the riff raff people around you. Because they infect you with their mindset. Their hard headedness and scarcity mindset is not only a drag onto themselves but they also burden others with it.

I never had motiviation to become rich because I already have everything I want and need in terms of material stuff. I just valued time more than money. Because with free time I can develop myself. But I have come to a point that I realized that I can't tolerate tier 1 people anymore. And obviously you have to tolerate them but I just want to minimize my interactions with them. 

Major insights I had talkign to reach people is that they are egocentric. Like how else can you become rich? And secondly they have an iron clad frame. Sometimes to their own detriment. But it is also benefiticial. It is a double edged sword. When you become tier 2, rich people will circle around you. Because you have the skills they need. You just need to talk to a lot of people until you come across them and then you are in a different fellowship.

[Alfonsoo]

As a tier 1, you need to send me money

[Nivsch]

27 minutes ago, Alfonsoo said:

As a tier 1, you need to send me money

😂

[AION]

29 minutes ago, Alfonsoo said:

As a tier 1, you need to send me money

Make me a sandwich 

[LordFall]

Totally agreed. It's what separates Stage Green from Stage Yellow. Stage green complains about the unfairness of the world and feels like an eternally slighted victim. Stage Yellow understands the systems that power our world and starts to create new systems that benefit himself or herself and the people around them.

A LOT of Stage Green and below people demonize money as opposed to just learning effective ways to generate value and ways to package an offer. Alex Hormozi's books are great for understanding how to do this. 

48 minutes ago, Alfonsoo said:

As a tier 1, you need to send me money

Hopefully you're joking and learning how to generate income for yourself. Getting others to subsidize you will always leave you under their control. If you're an extremely submissive person it might satisfy you more than the average person but still it'll leave you vulnerable and at the mercy of others. 

[something_else]

58 minutes ago, AION said:

When you are tier 2, tier 1 people will drive you crazy

One of the defining characteristics of being tier 2 is that people lower on the spiral don't trigger you that much, because you understand why they are acting the way they are.

If you're being severely irritated by behaviour that's characteristic of lower stages, say stage green, it's possible that irritation is not coming from a Tier 2 place.

Edited 4 hours ago by something_else

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@something_else 🎯

[Majed]

9 minutes ago, something_else said:

One of the defining characteristics of being tier 2 is that people lower on the spiral don't trigger you that much, because you understand why they are acting the way they are.

If you're being severely irritated by behaviour that's characteristic of lower stages, say stage green, it's possible that irritation is not coming from a Tier 2 place.

@something_else In practice though, tier 1 people are so ignorant they'll drive you mad. Lmao. They'll criticize you constantly for not being like them. 

[something_else]

4 minutes ago, Majed said:

@something_else In practice though, tier 1 people are so ignorant they'll drive you mad. Lmao. They'll criticize you constantly for not being like them. 

I'm just stating one of the defining characteristics of tier 2 under the spiral dynamics model. By its definition it's quite a flexible system and there are always exceptions to the rules. I'm sure stage yellow people still get frustrated with others sometimes, it's natural.

But I think if you find yourself being constantly irritated by people you consider of lower development, it may be time to re-evaluate how Tier 2 you really are, and whether being Tier 2 is just something you identify with rather than something you actually embody.

It's quite easy to look at a description of Stage Yellow and think "yes, I think this is correct and represents my values and ideals therefore I am tier 2" without actually doing the work to embody those values.

If fully embodied, under the spiral dynamics model, you shouldn't really be feeling frustration towards those from stages further down the spiral, as the whole point of tier 2 is that you understand the whole model and why people of certain stages act the way they do.

Frustration and anger become Stage Red tools you can call upon when necessary rather than something the world or those in it make you feel regularly.

[Majed]

8 minutes ago, something_else said:

I'm just stating one of the defining characteristics of tier 2 under the spiral dynamics model. By its definition it's quite a flexible system and there are always exceptions to the rules. I'm sure stage yellow people still get frustrated with others sometimes, it's natural.

But I think if you find yourself being constantly irritated by people you consider of lower development, it may be time to re-evaluate how Tier 2 you really are, and whether being Tier 2 is just something you identify with rather than something you actually embody.

It's quite easy to look at a description of Stage Yellow and think "yes, I think this is correct and represents my values and ideals therefore I am tier 2" without actually doing the work to embody those values.

If fully embodied, under the spiral dynamics model, you shouldn't really be feeling frustration towards those from stages further down the spiral, as the whole point of tier 2 is that you understand the whole model and why people of certain stages act the way they do.

Frustration and anger become Stage Red tools you can call upon when necessary rather than something the world or those in it make you feel regularly.

Dude, you're lost in theory. That's not how it works in practice.

[Rafael Thundercat]

1 hour ago, AION said:

When you are tier 2, tier 1 people will drive you crazy. It is important to separate the weed from the chaff. It will create a lot of resentment in yourself and it will cause a lot of conflict. When you are tier 2 you just need tier 1 people to be. They have their own generational arch they have to go through.

Now I kind of the get the illuminate pyramide. The upper has to separate itself from the riff raff. And this the hierachy that is needed for civilization to stand tall. Without the elite, there is no civilization.

Recently through serendipity, I met some wealthy people. And they offered to do business with me because they recognized the intellect and where they were when they started out. I noticed some inner blocks within me. It felt kind of surreal. Some rich guy just trusting me with thousands of dollars. But I didn't have the confidence and he felt that. And I just spoke it out and he appreciated it.

When you are on this turning point you need to let go of jealous people and the riff raff people around you. Because they infect you with their mindset. Their hard headedness and scarcity mindset is not only a drag onto themselves but they also burden others with it.

I never had motiviation to become rich because I already have everything I want and need in terms of material stuff. I just valued time more than money. Because with free time I can develop myself. But I have come to a point that I realized that I can't tolerate tier 1 people anymore. And obviously you have to tolerate them but I just want to minimize my interactions with them. 

Major insights I had talkign to reach people is that they are egocentric. Like how else can you become rich? And secondly they have an iron clad frame. Sometimes to their own detriment. But it is also benefiticial. It is a double edged sword. When you become tier 2, rich people will circle around you. Because you have the skills they need. You just need to talk to a lot of people until you come across them and then you are in a different fellowship.

The most interesting thing in your message isn't the tier theory, it's the moment with the wealthy guy. You felt the block, said it out loud, and he respected it. That's real tier 2 behavior: honesty about your own interior instead of performing confidence.

Now the part I'd challenge. In Spiral Dynamics, the defining mark of tier 2 is that it sees every stage as a necessary part of the whole, so contempt for tier 1 is usually a sign you're not fully there yet. Your own words give it away: "drive you crazy," "resentment," "riff raff," "infect you." That's a reaction, not an integration. Tier 2 doesn't need to separate the weed from the chaff, it knows the chaff was the grain of an earlier season. You can set boundaries with people without ranking their worth.

Same with the pyramid. Complex societies do tend to produce hierarchies, but "without the elite there is no civilization" is a claim, not a fact, and it's convenient for anyone who sees themselves on the upper levels. Also, wealth and developmental depth are different axes. You just noticed that rich people are egocentric by your own account, which means money doesn't track tier at all.

Here's what I'm curious about: when a tier 1 person triggers that resentment, what exactly is being threatened in you? And is it possible that the "inner block" with the rich guy and the strong reaction to scarcity-minded people are the same wound seen from two sides?

[LordFall]

41 minutes ago, something_else said:

One of the defining characteristics of being tier 2 is that people lower on the spiral don't trigger you that much, because you understand why they are acting the way they are.

If you're being severely irritated by behaviour that's characteristic of lower stages, say stage green, it's possible that irritation is not coming from a Tier 2 place.

I think you can be stuck in a mix of the 2 where you're starting to build systems to add value to the world and you get frustrated that other perspectives don't quite fit into it. These stages are not binary.

To me at 20% stage yellow integration frustration seems inevitable but when you get to lets say 100% integration and 20% Stage Turquoise then the resistance starts to make sense to you and you start to integrate other perspectives into your work and building solutions that integrate their limited viewpoints and resources as opposed to judging them for it. 

I think the difference is Stage Green is stuck in a pure reactionary phase and isn't actually building many systems to start to fix the injustices they feel in the world. The most they do is organize and protest(which is usually a movement started by another person that you just add your presence and emotions to) but when you start to build an organization that addresses the world's problems I think that's when you take your first big step into Stage Yellow. 

Edited 3 hours ago by LordFall

[Rafael Thundercat]

Stop letting people with zero abracadabra ruin your magic.

[something_else]

9 minutes ago, Majed said:

Dude, you're lost in theory. That's not how it works in practice.

It's a systems thinking model, it's theoretical by nature.

My point is very practical though, embodied Stage yellow understands why people act the way they do and realises that other stages are necessary for human development, hence feeling compulsive frustration towards them should start secede. 

If that isn't happening, someone claiming to be Tier 2 should reflect on why that is.

[Rafael Thundercat]

14 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I think you can be stuck in a mix of the 2 where you're starting to build systems to add value to the world and you get frustrated that other perspectives don't quite fit into it. These stages are not binary.

To me at 20% stage yellow integration frustration seems inevitable but when you get to lets say 100% integration and 20% Stage Turquoise then the resistance starts to make sense to you and you start to integrate other perspectives into your work and building solutions that integrate their limited viewpoints and resources as opposed to judging them for it. 

I think the difference is Stage Green is stuck in a pure reactionary phase and isn't actually building many systems to start to fix the injustices they feel in the world. The most they do is organize and protest(which is usually a movement started by another person that you just add your presence and emotions to) but when you start to build an organization that addresses the world's problems I think that's when you take your first big step into Stage Yellow. 

The percentage idea is the most useful thing you've said so far, because it lets you place yourself honestly. If frustration is inevitable at 20% Yellow, then your irritation isn't a failure, it's information about where you actually are. That's a healthier position than claiming to be past it. One caveat: the percentages are your own working model, not something Spiral Dynamics formally measures, so treat them as a metaphor rather than a scale.

I'd push back on the Green critique, though. Building organizations isn't what marks the jump to Yellow. Blue and Orange build organizations constantly, and plenty of Green people run NGOs, cooperatives, and community projects. What distinguishes Yellow is the ability to see how the whole system of stages interacts and to choose the right tool for each context. "Green only reacts" is a caricature, and it's the same sorting move again: Tier 1 below, Green beneath you. 

Your own last idea gives you a test: building solutions that integrate other people's limited viewpoints and resources. Take one of your offers or projects and see who are the people you'd normally avoid, and what would it take to design something that works for how they actually see the world, rather than for how you wish they saw it?

[Nercohype]

Sure, you can make money, but how will that improve your spirituality? And the cold, hard fact is that you won't be taking a single penny with you when you die. So, in my opinion, it's ultimately pointless. 😁

Personally, I greatly fear the Egregore of Greed. People don't realize how much it can ruin their lives. They underestimate the power it can have over them. It can lead you straight down into the mud.

[LordFall]

@Rafael Thundercat Yes agreed, I think that by adding the percentage to the model it makes it better, more useful and more practical to assess individuals and our own progress in life. 

I think your pushback makes sense but I will say that the characterizing factor of Stage Green is empathy and fighting back against injustice. Therefore the organizations they build are based on that as opposed to being more systematic and actually causing change. 

[Wilhelm44]

54 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

And is it possible that the "inner block" with the rich guy and the strong reaction to scarcity-minded people are the same wound seen from two sides?

Not quite sure if that is the same wound.

Inner block with the rich guy could be the sense of unworthiness we feel.

Strong reaction to people we view beneath us, feels more like spiritual ego.

I could be wrong.

[Wilhelm44]

58 minutes ago, LordFall said:

when you start to build an organization that addresses the world's problems I think that's when you take your first big step into Stage Yellow. 

Not that that's a necessity, I would imagine there are quite a number of sages on Turquoise who skipped the world changing organization part.

[Rafael Thundercat]

The text below may seen out of context but is a good point since what I intuit the original point of this thread is that by being around tier 1 people we are somehow of even actually hurting out own progress. I know this pain viceraly. So this text below is a sort of call to action for those who say they wish to do more and wellz sometimes we need to look deep in our reality if we are Really into what we say we want. Here is go:

I wonder how many people will spend the next five years complaining about their financial circumstances while doing absolutely fuck all to change them.
And before someone gets their nickers in a twist, I'm not talking about people who are genuinely struggling to keep their heads above water. (But also I've seen some pretty incredible things happen with those on struggle street)
I'm talking about people who have opportunities available to them, who could make some changes, develop new skills or become more financially capable, but continue to do very little with any of it.
Because something I find fascinating is how many people say they want financial freedom until you start talking about what acquiring it might actually require from them.
Everyone loves the idea of having more money, more choices, more flexibility and greater control over how they spend their time.
Of course they fucking do. Who wouldn't?
But ask someone what they're actually prepared to learn, practise, prioritise or become reasonably uncomfortable doing to create those circumstances, and suddenly it's a very different conversation.
And I think some people need to get considerably more honest about the difference between wanting a different financial future and being willing to participate in creating one.
Because you can want something desperately. You can think about it every day, talk about how much you want it, feel emotional about the fact that you don't have it and spend years imagining what your life would look like if you did.
But none of that tells me very much about your commitment.
Your willingness to acquire the skills, make the decisions and follow through on the things that might actually improve your financial position tells me considerably more.
And I think we've got a lot of people confusing the intensity of their desire with the level of their commitment.
They'll spend hours researching holidays they can't afford, houses they'd love to own and lifestyles they'd love to live.
They'll watch people who have built those circumstances and wonder what it would be like.
They'll tell themselves that one day they'll have more money, more freedom and more opportunities.
But ask them what they've done in the last twelve months to improve their financial literacy, develop a valuable skill, understand their finances or increase their earning capacity, and there's often very little to talk about.
Which makes me wonder how badly some people actually want the things they keep telling themselves they want.
And while we're here, can we have a slightly uncomfortable conversation about capacity?
Because I reckon some people have become very comfortable telling themselves they don't have the capacity to learn something new without ever properly examining what they're currently doing with the capacity they have.
Now, I'm someone who talks about capacity all the fucking time.
I understand that people have children, jobs, businesses, relationships, health challenges and a whole host of other responsibilities competing for their time and attention.
I also understand that having two hours available in your calendar doesn't automatically mean you've got the physical, mental or emotional capacity to use those two hours productively.
But I also think the language of capacity can become a very convenient explanation for decisions we don't particularly want to examine.
Are you genuinely at capacity, or have you become very comfortable telling yourself that you are?
Because those are two very different conversations.
And I'm going to say something that might piss a few people off. Nothing new.
In the years I've spent teaching people to trade, I've watched single mothers become successful traders while navigating circumstances that would make plenty of people wonder how they manage to get through an ordinary Tuesday.
Women raising children completely on their own. Women dealing with fucking horrendous co-parenting situations.
Women working, managing households, navigating financial pressure and carrying responsibilities they can't simply put down because they'd like a few hours to themselves.
And yet, they've found ways to learn. My Co-Founder is a classic example of this.
They've studied when the kids have gone to bed. They've made use of small pockets of time. They've accepted that their education might take longer than someone else's. They've made compromises, rearranged priorities and continued showing up to learn even when their circumstances were far from ideal.
Now, I know we're not supposed to compare people's circumstances.
But I'm going to compare.
Because I think there's something worth examining when you see someone with incredibly limited time and resources find a way to develop a skill, while someone with considerably more freedom and support continues telling themselves they couldn't possibly fit it in.
And no, that doesn't mean everyone has the same capacity or that everyone should be expected to achieve the same outcomes.
But perhaps we could learn something from the resourcefulness of people who have managed to do things under circumstances that were far from convenient.
Because I wonder how many people have decided they don't have the capacity to learn something when what they actually mean is that they don't have any unallocated capacity.
Their routines are established. Their evenings are spoken for. Their weekends have a familiar rhythm.
And developing a new skill would require them to make decisions about what stays, what goes and what they're prepared to do less of.
So, serious question.
How much of your capacity is genuinely unavailable, and how much of it are you simply unwilling to reallocate?
Have you ever actually audited where your time goes?
Have you considered what you could learn if you dedicated even two hours a week to something for the next twelve months?
Or have you decided that because you can't dedicate ten hours a week to learning something, there's absolutely no point dedicating two?
I just find this interesting because people seem to think they need relatively ideal circumstances before they can start developing themselves.
They want uninterrupted study sessions, the perfect routine, plenty of spare time and the mental clarity to absorb everything without getting frustrated.
And when those things aren't available, they postpone.
Until next month. Until the kids are older. Until work settles down. Until things are less stressful.
And listen, sometimes postponing is absolutely the right decision.
But sometimes I wonder whether people have simply become very good at finding reasons why now couldn't possibly work.
Because if you're waiting for a season of life where absolutely nothing is competing for your time, you could be waiting a very fucking long time.
There's always going to be a reason why now isn't a good time.
Your children will always need you. Work may always be demanding. Money is going to be tight until you do something different. Your health needs attention. You're going through something difficult in your personal life.
You can spend your entire life waiting for a period where your circumstances are finally convenient enough to pursue the things you say you want.
And every time you get close to that period, something else will happen.
You and your reasons, ARE NOT UNIQUE TO YOU.
People have taken your cards, and built something incredible.
At what point do you stop expecting life to make room for your ambitions and start taking some responsibility for making room yourself?
Just because you've got a good reason for delaying something doesn't automatically mean delaying it is your only reasonable choice.
Sometimes you've got to work with the circumstances you've got.
Sometimes that means learning at a slower pace. Sometimes that means sacrificing something you enjoy. Sometimes that means accepting that your education is going to look very different from someone who has considerably more time available.
And sometimes it means acknowledging that you could have started twelve months ago, but you didn't particularly want to deal with everything that starting would require.
Which is fine. You're allowed to make that decision. But at least be fucking honest about it.
Because I think there's a point where repeatedly saying it's not a good time becomes a way of avoiding the much more confronting question.
What would actually have to happen in your life for you to finally decide that it IS a good time?
And if you can't answer that, perhaps you need to consider whether you're waiting for something that doesn't exist.
Have you considered that what you're calling a capacity problem might actually be an unwillingness to tolerate the discomfort of learning something new?
Because learning to trade, like developing most valuable skills, will challenge you.
You're going to be a beginner.
You're going to misunderstand things, get frustrated, question yourself and have to revisit lessons you've already completed. You're going to have to practise things repeatedly before they make sense.
And even when you do understand something, you're going to have to develop the discipline to apply it. I wonder how many opportunities people have walked away from because they were unwilling to experience the temporary discomfort of being inexperienced.
At some point, you've got to decide how much longer you're prepared to remain interested in changing your life without actually participating in changing it.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Rafael Thundercat