Authenticity (psychology): Underrated, Overrated?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Authenticity. I find it ill-defined. The word is tossed about flippantly. EVERYWHERE. It is spoken about on these forums frequently.

What is Authenticity (in the romantic sense, and interpersonally)? Do you think it is overrated/underrated? Only appropriate at certain times or phases of connection?

I find it paradoxical. Authenticity requires enough self-awareness to distinguish your genuine values from the forces acting on you (incentive structures). I think it is about congruence. Congruence between what is actually going on inside you, how you live, make choices and relate to the world. So for me it's being able to accurately know what I experience, owning it completely and acting in accordance with it as the situation deeps appropriate. I feel like it needs these clauses because it gets muddled up with just "expressing" without censure.

Authenticity IS NOT just expressing the contents of your mind. "I say what I feel", "I refuse to change for anyone", "I do what feels natural", "I am brutally honest" or "I don't care what anyone thinks, this is who I am" - all of these are not it in my definition.

Philosophy wise I don't think to be authentic we require a true fixed self. Values change. We change. What is authentic will change. Existentially I see it creeping toward "am I taking ownership of the fact I am choosing?"

My closest definition:

Authenticity is the constant, background practice of shrinking the space between what I experience and what I understand myself to currently value. What I claim to be, and how I actually behave... while remaining willing to amend my understanding of me.

Would love everyone's thoughts around this loaded topic as it applies to dating, courtship, romance, relationships, attraction etc.

[aurum]

Yes!

It's a useful distinction when one is learning to individuate themselves from the collective conformity of lower stages of development.

But ultimately, authenticity as a concept also needs to be deconstructed.

 

[integration journey]

It’s great to be living in authenti-city! 

it’s a great city indeed ☺️

[Jirh]

27 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Authenticity. I find it ill-defined. The word is tossed about flippantly. EVERYWHERE. It is spoken about on these forums frequently.

What is Authenticity (in the romantic sense, and interpersonally)? Do you think it is overrated/underrated? Only appropriate at certain times or phases of connection?

Authenticity is the lack of performance. It's the flow state of who you are underneath all the masks of fear and appearances of love.

It is the direct manifestation of real safety and deep security.

And in some cases, it's the manifestation of overwhelming fear. It's what occurs when all the walls fall down and there is nothing left to hide or lose.

27 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I find it paradoxical. Authenticity requires enough self-awareness to distinguish your genuine values from the forces acting on you (incentive structures). I think it is about congruence. Congruence between what is actually going on inside you, how you live, make choices and relate to the world. 

No.

Authenticity does not require anything. It's exactly what occurs when nothing is required. It is unconditional.

27 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

So for me it's being able to accurately know what I experience, owning it completely and acting in accordance with it as the situation deeps appropriate. I feel like it needs these clauses because it gets muddled up with just "expressing" without censure.

That's agency, aka healthy sense of self, it requires authenticity, but it's not it.

27 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Authenticity IS NOT just expressing the contents of your mind.

It is.

27 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

"I say what I feel", "I refuse to change for anyone", "I do what feels natural", "I am brutally honest" or "I don't care what anyone thinks, this is who I am" - all of these are not it in my definition.

These aren't necessarily authentic expressions. They sound more like egoic defenses of a fragile sense of self.

27 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Philosophy wise I don't think to be authentic we require a true fixed self. Values change. We change. What is authentic will change.

Yes.

27 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Existentially I see it creeping toward "am I taking ownership of the fact I am choosing?"

Again, that's agency. It's a different thing, although built on top of authenticity.

27 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

My closest definition:

Authenticity is the constant, background practice of shrinking the space between what I experience and what I understand myself to currently value. What I claim to be, and how I actually behave... while remaining willing to amend my understanding of me.

No.

[Jirh]

46 minutes ago, aurum said:

Yes!

It's a useful distinction when one is learning to individuate themselves from the collective conformity of lower stages of development.

But ultimately, authenticity as a concept also needs to be deconstructed.

Oh, no. Not again 😴😪

[Yimpa]

Mrow 

[LordFall]

I think it's overrated in that people think that being honest and transparent is gonna be a huge step in the right direction for them. It sort of is but the reason that society teaches us to bottle up our feelings is that life is hard and complaining about that is not gonna change it. 

I think offering value is they key to most of the dating problems in society and value comes from solving hard problems so it can't really be easy. Thus offering value is an honest sign of high competence and being an asset to someone's life. If you aren't an asset to other people's lives why is being honest and authentic gonna change that fact? On the other hand being able to accept our limitations and not be delusional or falsely represent ourselves to others is also important. 

[Joseph Maynor]

This is too bad because authenticity is so basic.  

[Rishabh R]

@Natasha Tori Maru In my experience authenticity is honest expression of your thoughts , emotions and your actual day to day actions.

However , you're definition has an interesting caveat . Acting in alignment with our healthy values makes us more authentic so that explains pretty much of it . Values change , we change our authenticity changed that's a normal progression. 

Yup authenticity has been being thrown around a lot in self -help literature especially in dating and attraction.As if authenticity is the key that makes you the Ladies man. But as per attraction it is subjective , I mean - Some women will like you , some will hate you for your true self. But it's better to be single and hated for your own choices rather than putting a cool persona of authenticity in order to liked by others.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

 

22 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I think it's overrated in that people think that being honest and transparent is gonna be a huge step in the right direction for them. It sort of is but the reason that society teaches us to bottle up our feelings is that life is hard and complaining about that is not gonna change it. 

I think offering value is they key to most of the dating problems in society and value comes from solving hard problems so it can't really be easy. Thus offering value is an honest sign of high competence and being an asset to someone's life. If you aren't an asset to other people's lives why is being honest and authentic gonna change that fact? On the other hand being able to accept our limitations and not be delusional or falsely represent ourselves to others is also important. 

Do you think it might be overrated for certain phases of relationship, like during initial dating? IE maybe the value of authenticity rises as the relationship progresses?

I think the role of authenticity is a big step individually for people - how it manifests in relationship with a person is another layer of complexity.

Cheers for your thoughts!

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 minutes ago, Rishabh R said:

@Natasha Tori Maru In my experience authenticity is honest expression of your thoughts , emotions and your actual day to day actions.

I went with this initially - but then I recalled when I felt some of my actions did not align with my values, despite the expression feeling "good" (or maybe cathartic) at the time. An incentive to express myself in the moment run up against a value (no offending others). Lots of dissonance was felt.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Yes!

It's a useful distinction when one is learning to individuate themselves from the collective conformity of lower stages of development.

But ultimately, authenticity as a concept also needs to be deconstructed.

Agree - can I ask - does your book touch on this topic much?

[Rishabh R]

@Natasha Tori Maru Ok I just want to know what did you do after that dissonance ,I mean did you align your actions with your values or let the dissonance persist . Since dissonance is a signal of weather you can change your values or realign with your values.

[LordFall]

10 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

 

Do you think it might be overrated for certain phases of relationship, like during initial dating? IE maybe the value of authenticity rises as the relationship progresses?

I think the role of authenticity is a big step individually for people - how it manifests in relationship with a person is another layer of complexity.

Cheers for your thoughts!

Yes best foot forward first then authentically addressing and voicing issues as they come up throughout the relationship is the move. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

12 minutes ago, Rishabh R said:

@Natasha Tori Maru Ok I just want to know what did you do after that dissonance ,I mean did you align your actions with your values or let the dissonance persist . Since dissonance is a signal of weather you can change your values or realign with your values.

The impulse to express myself in the way I did dissolved naturally after I recognised the boundary I had crossed with my own value system.

I didn't feel that "building up inside"  of frustrated pressure and a need to express it - the pressure just wasn't there. Instead of trying to hold the lid shut to stop pressure release, I put the fire out from under the pot (crude metaphor, but it seems to describe how I felt the congruence)

In the face of truly understanding how I was compromising a connection the expression of my behaviour changed. And I didn't feel it like it was a censure of myself or me inhibiting. It just felt like a drive toward connection.

I feel like my overall definition (which is a work in progress) lacks the essence of spontaneity that comes with authenticity. I am fundamentally unresolved here!

Edited 2 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[aurum]

13 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Agree - can I ask - does your book touch on this topic much?

A ton.

Much of my book answers the question "what do romantic relationships look like after you've deconstructed gender roles?"

Or in other words, post-SD Green relationships.

This naturally brings up many questions around authenticity.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

16 minutes ago, aurum said:

A ton.

Much of my book answers the question "what do romantic relationships look like after you've deconstructed gender roles?"

Or in other words, post-SD Green relationships.

This naturally brings up many questions around authenticity.

I can see why you put so much emphasis on that topic.

I see "authenticity", just be "authentic" etc thrown around commonly in dating and romance advice.

But I feel like very little care has gone into explaining what is meant.

And from my dialogues with others on this topic, overlap in definitions presents as a rarity. I didn't even really think about how the concept could be filtered through gender roles - which people would commonly load up the term with.

[Jodistrict]

People are inauthentic as a protection mechanism.  If you are authentic, you are going to pay a price, most  likely rejection and loss.  It’s not a feel good new agey thing.  The reward is intimacy, if the other person decides to agree to the process rather than running away.

[Rishabh R]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

The impulse to express myself in the way I did dissolved naturally after I recognised the boundary I had crossed with my own value system.

I didn't feel that "building up inside"  of frustrated pressure and a need to express it - the pressure just wasn't there. Instead of trying to hold the lid shut to stop pressure release, I put the fire out from under the pot (crude metaphor, but it seems to describe how I felt the congruence)

In the face of truly understanding how I was compromising a connection the expression of my behaviour changed. And I didn't feel it like it was a censure of myself or me inhibiting. It just felt like a drive toward connection.

I feel like my overall definition (which is a work in progress) lacks the essence of spontaneity that comes with authenticity. I am fundamentally unresolved here!

It indicated me that connection is your value. It can be highly volatile depending on how you define it for example connection on your terms of based on other's judgement of you.

As per this post Authenticity is underrated since if you look up the pick up material most of them have a deep root problem inability to be authentic or honest in the moment .There are literally videos on YouTube telling desperate guys - Say this , text this to a woman as if you can control a woman by manufacturing attraction. 

Also pickup has a problem with itself - Treating getting a laid as a controllable outcome but rather letting go of trying to be loved , trying to get laid yields more happiness than even having a multitude of hot women cannot provide . 

Your posts seem to me wiser.

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

The impulse to express myself in the way I did dissolved naturally after I recognised the boundary I had crossed with my own value system.

This is progression towards maturity .

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Rishabh R yes 🙏🏻

I think authenticity is a function of maturity and knowing thyself (but not limited to these things!). We can persue sex thinking it is our top value - and claim it is authentic. But when deconstructed we might realise we didn't want sex after all. It was a deception. And we acted out of authenticity as a result, unknowingly and unconsciously. 

This is where feeling and emotional intelligence come in. Sometimes we can intellectuallize a value, but the feeling tells us something isn't right. 

Edited 39 minutes ago by Natasha Tori Maru