Islam vs actualized.org

[Joseph Maynor]

I find it really stupid to fight with people over politics or religion.  It is a barrier to Relation.  

[kavaris]

Religion is like the istemi to, the unspeakable/unrevealed (ἀπόρρητον / μυστήριον), the aletheia or truth, the backwards / cringe reality that no one is accepting — in the form of its \*constantly unfolding nature — in the outwardly religious frames of mind; And that we should otherwise hope to conceive of or share. Like for instance, if someone named Leo Shura made a website called Factualized, and everything was exactly the same but w/ slight shades of difference, such that there would be a slight reframing (respoken from a different persons perspective) such that, thered be no way you could have all of the videos and everything, exactly the same/identical, it would be a testament to how no one can even physically make something that follows one unified following or belief, per the way religious folk are trying to portray, cause its just not the truth of reality. People take similar roads on the happenstance religious belief or following—under the assumption that they are doing it in the likeness of something they heard or saw, even though its from a place of entirely separate circumstance, and as such, its a revealing of the unrevealed truth that doesnt fit the way you may think, when expressed from the idealized muslim, christian or religious frameworks. Its like, the generic misunderstanding that continues to be clumsily misunderstood and revealed~giving away someones mis-aligned solutions to that under-appreciated truth. Like its the impossible brought into the real — it is Not gonna accomplish what yous think.., and itll be a really bad solution towards an underlying truth that does exist, if it is to ever find itself forced into the world from that extremely contrived point of the religious standards.

Edited yesterday at 10:08 AM by kavaris

[kavaris]

"What you should start considering to understand or otherwise investigate in yourself / exp., which could include things that'll look or feel like truth, to you" is alot different than "These are the fabricated words and events and testimonies, of far too many homies to name in one sentence", towards an agreed-upon-truth thats never explicitly described... Like, if the point of it was to find god, then it was overexplained... if the point was to find / establish a religion, they accomplished that in that 200-300 AD range... If the point of it was to establish the special nature of the self, they missed the mark. And, if the point was to say something about the mysteries of life and internal religion, then their attempts to make gnostic religion suppressed, towards the canonical works made into gospel, was a mistake, and i dont think Islam takes gnosticism to any functional level that would be making it abundantly clear, like its still "Im a prophet, but beware of false prophets"

Like, dont you love it when the prophet himself is explaining that to you? Like... The fk is that?!

Edited 23 hours ago by kavaris

[Thought Art]

@kavaris Mohammad explicitly described and explained God. He said it is infinity. One God. I don’t think you have a deep grasp of Islam, the different types of study, practice or mystics. 

Edited 23 hours ago by Thought Art

[Someone here]

A note on Islam: it is arguably the religion that speaks most extensively and rigorously about the oneness and attributes of God .His omnipotence, omniscience, benevolence, and so on. it contains what I consider to be one of the closest descriptions of God to the way Leo explained Him (it)

That said, as a belief system and a source of moral and social rules, I think many aspects of Islam are outdated and cannot be straightforwardly applied to the modern world.

 

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura Islam has parables, stories, teachers, poems of which speak directly to the heart. 
 

Actualized is powerful, and its these teachings which assist in my relationship to the body of Islam. This is an important note. 
 

There is deep intelligence in actualized. But, there is not the same heart. Heart is something actualized does have. But, it’s not felt like I feel in works of Islam. Please be respectful, not for me, but to see that which I share with you as a nurturing perspective. 

Edited 21 hours ago by Thought Art

[LordFall]

Also Mohammad disliked dogs and had a lot of them killed, strange guy. I think he was broke merchant that prayed to God for a better life and god was feeling feisty so he gave him some self-confidence and some prophecies and his warlord timeline began. God has some similar things with thousands of people throughout history to varying effects.

Joseph Smith similarly had a mystical/divine experience that lead to Mormonism taking hold and he was not particularly a standup guy either. 

[Thought Art]

@LordFall Mohammad was not a warlord. God did not just give some confidence. It used him as the mouthpiece and organizer of Islam. The Qu’ran took 23 years to create. For a man who was not educated this book shouldn’t exist. 

He became a great leader, and through him divine mercy was spread, people were unified under one God. A god of which is described in great detail in the Quran and Islamic thought to shows Islam is rooted  high level understanding of Gods nature not easily attained by an average mind or human state of awareness. He came from essentially being ignored to creating Islam. Impossible feat. He is deserving of respect. As a leader he fought wars, but this was part of governance. Not being a warlord. 
 

The fact that he not only wrote the Quran but that he took part in governance is very profound. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Thought Art

[LordFall]

@Thought Art He was a caravan merchant in Mecca, a major trade hub at the intersection of Christian, Jewish, and Pagan trade routes. He was exposed to those theological ideas for decades before he started receiving visions in his 40s.

You're familiar with his story right? Leading 20+ military campaigns, conquering the Arabian peninsula, and executing political rivals is literally the definition of a warlord.

You can respect his political organizational genius and respect his contribution to human history without needing to mythologize him into a flawless saint.

[Joseph Maynor]

Really the issue is do you have a direct experience with God or not?  All this talk is nonsense outside of this question with respect to religion.  

[Joseph Maynor]

People will try to make you look bad.  It becomes funny when you notice it.  

[Thought Art]

@LordFall That’s fair. But, I looked into it a bit more. He wasn’t a warlord lord as most of those campaigns didn’t involve warfare. He wasn’t going around killing everyone. He did lead some battles/ wars. But, not as a warlord. To call him a warlord is simply not accurate. 

Edited 9 hours ago by Thought Art

[LordFall]

He was literally a warlord my guy. He was at times more diplomatic than others but he waged many wars of expansion and conquered, killed and many of his forces raped and enslaved people

In January 627 at the Siege of Banu Qurayza he had hundreds of men executed and the women and children sold into slavery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Banu_Qurayza

I know you like the poetry but let's look at the pure facts here. 

[Joseph Maynor]

When you are religious your relationship with God is first and foremost.  The texts are ways to practice the religion.  

[kavaris]

18 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@kavaris Mohammad explicitly described and explained God. He said it is infinity. One God. I don’t think you have a deep grasp of Islam, the different types of study, practice or mystics. 

Well dont address me on that point, tell that to OP, cause ive not said anything about Islam *saying or having a one god in it. The OPs post also didnt refute that point. Address him on that front (as that's quite a different topic now, a substantial leap from the premise - of which the original poster @Majed introduced in his first post...)

Edited 5 hours ago by kavaris

[kavaris]

(cont.) @Thought Art For all i know, Majed's islam asserts that family is first, and yours is prioritizing \*One / Nous / (G)od first-and-foremost. I can't refute what i dont know... I can only address the interpretations yous are giving.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

I think the conquests were pretty badass though, imagine creating a religion in the middle of nowhere, in a geographical area from which no empire ever expected, nor experienced any threat up until that point. You don't have horse archers or riding/shooting skills like the Mongols did. You just suddenly appear from the desert and utterly wreck 2 empires

[kavaris]

25 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

I think the conquests were pretty badass

In what way exactly?

[Raze]

10 minutes ago, kavaris said:

In what way exactly?

Probably how people like John Adams and Napoleon praised Muhammad. They didn’t support Islam but saw him as a evolution in law and conquest. 

Its funny you can read analysis of Islam from the 18th century by people who were raised in hardcore Christian environments and had oriental or ignorant understanding of the world and history, and yet they are often more nuanced and willing to consider historical context than what you can read from people today. It really shows a intellectual degradation.

Edited 4 hours ago by Raze

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

13 minutes ago, kavaris said:

In what way exactly?

Because I think both empires had still enough resources and manpower to beat muslims easily, on paper; even despite that one last long war that utterly drained them and devastated them both. They just got outskilled and beaten by desert dwellers lol, while often outnumbering them significantly. Khalid Ibn al-Wallid was a legendary muslim general from that time period and participated in most of the campaigns, and was literaly undefeated in like over a 100 battles