The Tension Before the Approach

[Joseph Maynor]

A great test here is how would you like someone to introduce themself to you?  And then reciprocate that.  

[Zenterus]

@Miguel1 Vadim has been having an existential crisis for years now. Go watch his videos "Are you aligned" and you will see a hint of that. I wouldnt be surprised if the whole pickup thing ran its course and he has lost passion for it altogether.

 

[Leo Gura]

Todd's game is very stiff and unnatural from my POV.

The best game is natural, not mechanical.

Don't emulate pickup coaches, emulate naturals. Naturals have better game than top coaches.

My natural friend is better than any pickup coach. And he doesn't even know game theory. More fun too. Pickup coaches tend to be weirdo, creepy guys. Most pickup coaches were and still are loosers.

Edited 5 hours ago by Leo Gura

[LordFall]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Todd's game is very stiff and unnatural from my POV.

The best game is natural, not mechanical.

Don't emulate pickup coaches, emulate naturals. Naturals have better game than top coaches.

My natural friend is better than any pickup coach. And he doesn't even know game theory. More fun too. Pickup coaches tend to be weirdo, creepy guys. Most pickup coaches were and still are loosers.

I find naturals tend to be only good in specific environments and struggle to adapt to others especially those they don't have status in. I've had a few extroverted friends that ran laps over me in places where they knew people and were naturally charismatic and talked a lot and gathered the attention to themselves.

In other places where they knew no one that I invited them to the jokes landed very poorly and it turned into a lack of calibration pretty quickly as they understand the fundamental social dynamics and how to adapt to different social environments because they just socialized by instinct. 

@Zenterus Makes sense its common a lot pickup coaches have an existential crisis in their 40s if they don't have other businesses or communities they're a part of. It's like an unmarried party girl in her 40s the results just start getting worse and it's hard to cope with. Roosh V was one of the funniest ones turning from a degen pickup guy to a christian to try and keep the frame. 

Ross Jeffries is one of the few exceptions but I wouldn't say it's aged well, pun intended. 

Edited 4 hours ago by LordFall

[Leo Gura]

My natural friend can talk to any stranger. He makes a living by talking groups of people to go to strip clubs. Clubs pay him to bring people to them.

Extroverts have no problem talking to strangers. They love that shit.

An extrovert will chat with Satan about the weather.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Jirh]

@Leo Gura How successful is he at it though?

Like I'm sure he's way more successful than an introvert who's forcing himself to do some sales pitch. But still, I think he still faces lots of rejections. He probably just ignores them as noise instead of making him the core of his focus like us introverts tend to do.

Is his success something that he does or possess? Or is it like something deeper than that? Like vibe? Confidence? What do you think is it?

Edited 3 hours ago by Jirh

[Stick]

@Leo Gura wtf is a natural friend

[Jirh]

9 minutes ago, Stick said:

@Leo Gura wtf is a natural friend

😂

[AION]

Most people don't understand introvert versus extrovert.

1. it is a spectrum, not a dichotomy

2. It is not fixed

Essentially it is about where your focus is; inside versus outside world.

When I'm in social mode, I don't give my inner world minimal attention. Just focus on the external, this allows me to stay in flow. This is what a natural is. It is just a habit of focus. When I'm in the zone I'm able to tap into that although my natural inclination is introversion/contemplation.

It is all about balance too. If you are extroversion you need a little  bit of introversion to give yourself a little bit of depth. But too much depth without surface stinks too. So there is no one fit advice for all.

But if you are anxious it usually means you are stuck in your inner world. Your body perceives or is preprogrammed with fear so it haijacks your attention. There are special brain wave meditations that help you to get over this anxiety and have a more open focus. You can't just reprogram your body/mind system without solving your brain that is stuck in survival loops. Just reading comments won't change it because your system will just block the advice.

Edited 2 hours ago by AION

[Zenterus]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My natural friend can talk to any stranger. He makes a living by talking groups of people to go to strip clubs. Clubs pay him to bring people to them.

Extroverts have no problem talking to strangers. They love that shit.

An extrovert will chat with Satan about the weather.

Thats a rare exception. Most naturals arent that extroverted and confident with strangers, especially when there's no social context for the approach -- aka in a cold approach.

Most extroverted men date within their social circle or, at the very least, rely on their friends to fuel their confidence when they're out interacting with strangers.

The most formiddable guys to emulate are guys who are naturals who also learned some pickup. These ones are a force to be reconned with.

Ultimately, though, to be great at this stuff, you need to just fully embody an attractive archetype of man, be willing to deal with social pressure, own your sexuality fully and MASSIVELY SOCIALIZE.

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

He makes a living by talking groups of people to go to strip clubs.

So he is basically a club promoter? You cant compare. Club promoter get laid a ton just for the social proof they have and the value they offer club girls.

Also, he has done that for a living for god knows how many years. He is basically a professional at talking to girls, bumping their state, and leading then to clubs and giving them a good time.

That is far away from a natural who is not a professional at it.

The best combo is someone who is a natural but also learned game. That would probably be me. Todd’s technique and lines when used in good taste, just amplified my natural charisma, my ability to lead and close.

But again, as I said, if you do not have the inner game and charisma down, he will just make you worse.

Now, a non natural but master at PUA or natural who has not learned game? Probably the natural. Depending on many factors.

Edited 2 hours ago by Miguel1

[Miguel1]

4 hours ago, Zenterus said:

@Miguel1 Vadim has been having an existential crisis for years now. Go watch his videos "Are you aligned" and you will see a hint of that. I wouldnt be surprised if the whole pickup thing ran its course and he has lost passion for it altogether.

When I was 25, I did hard-core serious game for a year and almost killed myself at the end from the misalignment of it (joke).

But I got so sick of it I went into a relationship for 5 years lol. Now I am back being single but find it hard to practice PUA, as you know.

Edited 1 hour ago by Miguel1

[Joseph Maynor]

I feel like with any relationship it takes a while to establish a rapport.  But once you have a rapport, you can directly experience the energetic status and potential of the relationship.  

[Olaf]

@Leo Gura I wouldn´t call Owen a loser or creepy, nor Julien or Jeff. I haven´t also seen any naturals where I come from, mostly what I see is people drinking beer to gain some courage or charisma. The most charismatic guy I know in my city that isn´t into pick up but is an alcoholic, because it brings him in state, just a different state, a drunk state lol. 

[Leo Gura]

@Olaf Dude, Owen is the biggest creepy loser. Lol

[OBEler]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Olaf Dude, Owen is the biggest creepy loser. Lol

How do you come to the conclusion? You speak probably about actual Owen not back then as he was successfull with dates ? Or at least it seemed that way?

[Olaf]

@Leo Gura I rather would be Owen than a natural, because a natural accidently got success or due to alcohol, which in my opinion is the only thing that can get you in state without learning game, besides drugs, nobody wakes up in a flow state. Another person who would be in state like a natural, would be someone naturally good looking and had woman all around him, because of that. But that is not natural, that is leading with looks. Like a guy with money trying to find gold diggers, but that is leading with looks or money, when they lose those looks or lose the money or become sober, they might have a deeper existential crisis than any other PUA artist. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

From a womans perspective, Owen always gave me peculiar/odd vibes. Not in a good way. 

[krockerman]

50 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Olaf Dude, Owen is the biggest creepy loser. Lol

I feel like my game has become better ever since I stopped pick up and the techniques merged with my personality.

@Leo Gura

You know that Owen is one of pick ups most influencial guys, so I am curious.

You need to be very specific here Leo.

What do you mean when you say that he is a creepy loser?

[Joseph Maynor]

Realize his job as a dating coach is to try to help young men approach women, and he is successful at it.  That is a very unique niche.