PUA is fundamentally bad for YOU.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

1 hour ago, Miguel1 said:

This is not so black and white. If you have never done pick up, you don’t really know how much it grows you.

Do you understand the strenght it takes to walk up to a group of 10 people sitting, you remaining completely calm and grounded, starting a conversation with them and making them like you? I would probably have never been able to do this without practicing pick up.

Last night, I walked up alone, to a 10 person group, 9 man, 1 gorgeous blonde. And almost took the blonde from them. This is fucking confidence. What else is this? This is the true strenght of a man who has gone through hell to purify his weaknesses.

Can you do this? If you can’t then don’t shit on this skillset too quickly.

Besides, what’s the alternative? Most guys cannot do online dating. Dating via job is very limited and risky. Same with social circle - it is also not easy to have proper social circle without good social skills.

But yeah, I do get the toxicity. There is definitely a very toxic form of pick up. I used to practice that when I was younger. But nowadays I do a much healthier version of it, and that is what I recommend.

You do not necessarily need PUA. If the goal is simply to become comfortable approaching people and doing socially uncomfortable things, what you may need instead is greater detachment from your ego and from the abstract image of yourself that exists in your head.

My original point was never about the morality of PUA. It was purely about efficiency. There was no moral judgment in my post, but several people interpreted it that way. I was not arguing that PUA is inherently wrong. I was arguing that, for many people here, it is an inefficient and suboptimal strategy for finding a compatible long-term partner.

When someone rejects me, I do not necessarily interpret it as a judgment of my personal value. I see it more as a situation in which compatibility, attraction, or connection simply failed to emerge. Human interactions are shaped by countless factors that go far beyond the ego and its personal narratives.

 

[Ulax]

37 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

A framework that puts one sex of a species as being totally alien? It causes needless seperation when connecting is what it's all about. 

The advice I have isn't isolated to this. It's a given that all frames have limits to them. This one is just especially so. I don't need to have lived experience to apply analytical logic - and if you disqualify based on that I can't help you. And you are free to not take the advice.

Analytical logic is a nice rebrand of blind theorising. I'm going to steal that one  

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Ulax whatever 

[VioleGrace]

With all respect it is obvious for me reading your post that you are not going out to talk to girls and that you are not even trying, 

Cause you put so many projections and bad assumption within it that it seems just like excuses 

You can have kissed model that mean nothing and same if you went up a lot especially using drugs 

Claiming that you natural self can't game can easily be self deception unless you really tried hardcore to do something and be at least slightly good on this THEN at this moment you can tell it is me or not, plus pick up is a spectrum your view is awfully black and white an other indicator that you don't know what you are talking about 

There is some perspectives available in ur post but that are traps not conscious process to have relationship or get good socially 
 

Edited 1 hour ago by VioleGrace

[Jirh]

Yes.

Not only for "nerds". This applies to virtually everyone.

Club girls are not long term relationship material. They're fun, but that's their limit.

To add my 2 cents to the op;

You can develop your social skills to crazy levels, but don't confuse that with finding a great long term partner. These are two different things.

A "nerd" can be socially awkward and still land a hot wife. While someone with skill beyond imagination can end up alone, clubbing and cycling between shallow appearances.

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

You do not necessarily need PUA. If the goal is simply to become comfortable approaching people and doing socially uncomfortable things, what you may need instead is greater detachment from your ego and from the abstract image of yourself that exists in your head.

My original point was never about the morality of PUA. It was purely about efficiency. There was no moral judgment in my post, but several people interpreted it that way. I was not arguing that PUA is inherently wrong. I was arguing that, for many people here, it is an inefficient and suboptimal strategy for finding a compatible long-term partner.

When someone rejects me, I do not necessarily interpret it as a judgment of my personal value. I see it more as a situation in which compatibility, attraction, or connection simply failed to emerge. Human interactions are shaped by countless factors that go far beyond the ego and its personal narratives.

 

This is all what a healthy version of pick up artistry is about.

- Detaching from your ego / need for outcome / grandiose and false self-image

- Efficient way to meet new people romantically

- PUA is about treating dating as a marketing funnel

Edited 15 minutes ago by Miguel1

[AerisVahnEphelia]

1 hour ago, VioleGrace said:

With all respect it is obvious for me reading your post that you are not going out to talk to girls and that you are not even trying, 

Cause you put so many projections and bad assumption within it that it seems just like excuses 

You can have kissed model that mean nothing and same if you went up a lot especially using drugs 

Claiming that you natural self can't game can easily be self deception unless you really tried hardcore to do something and be at least slightly good on this THEN at this moment you can tell it is me or not, plus pick up is a spectrum your view is awfully black and white an other indicator that you don't know what you are talking about 

There is some perspectives available in ur post but that are traps not conscious process to have relationship or get good socially 
 

No I don't think so.

 

1 hour ago, Jirh said:

Yes.

Not only for "nerds". This applies to virtually everyone.

Club girls are not long term relationship material. They're fun, but that's their limit.

To add my 2 cents to the op;

You can develop your social skills to crazy levels, but don't confuse that with finding a great long term partner. These are two different things.

A "nerd" can be socially awkward and still land a hot wife. While someone with skill beyond imagination can end up alone, clubbing and cycling between shallow appearances.

Yes exactly my point. 

 

[VioleGrace]

8 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

No I don't think so.

So you are talking making assumption and conclusion about something you never practiced error 404 in epistemology 

Of course you don't think so cause you don't know any basic truth about it 

[Elliott]

5 minutes ago, VioleGrace said:

So you are talking making assumption and conclusion about something you never practiced error 404 in epistemology 

Of course you don't think so cause you don't know any basic truth about it 

The "escalate physical touch", and pre rehearsed comments of "game" are disingenuous and objectifying

Edited 13 minutes ago by Elliott