FUCK COMPLIMENTS, This is what ADVANCED Flirting Looks Like! [Not for Beginners]!

[Valach]

3 minutes ago, Hojo said:

Whenever someone compliment me I get angry. Its why I can never understand people making posts about please compliment the people you think say smart things or posts you agree with. Why? So I can massage your egos? If you agree with someone theres no reason to say I agree with you. Its completely useless information and a waste of time. If you have something to add add it but begging for compliments is cringe af.

If someone compliment me I ignore it, compliments are the same as insults.

Okay, but that is just your personal experience. I do not think average person gets angry upon getting complimented.

[Zenterus]

@Valach It would depend on how he goes direct. If he's approaching with generic compliments, with no personality and no authentic charm then I would view him as low value. And, by the way, that's what most people do when they go direct.

"Hey, excuse me, I know this is weird but I saw you from other there and blah blah blah" Basically self qualifying why they're approaching her.

I still go direct from time to time, by the way. As I said, it does work and sometimes it just feels right in the moment. But a) I'm more creative with it and b) I accept that it'll lead to more initial rejections with girls who might've been down had I taken a better approach. 

I think high value comes in a lot of forms. Good game and high value aren't always aligned. But if you were truly high value, and super confident, you wouldn't just approach direct. You would be having more fun with it and being more creative and playful in your approaches because you know you have value and you're complete, so everything you do is just play at that point.

[Hojo]

@ValachIts just as bad as an insult to the psyche.

The second you accept a compliment as a fact from someone you are a slave.

This is personal experience of a fact.

A compliment locks you into a frame you arent in. Just as an insult locks you into a frame you arent in.

Its damaging and only massages the ego.

Asking for a compliment is like saying please inflate my false identity that dosent even exist because I feel bad.

That false identity is why you feel bad in the first place.

There are genuine compliments but they are rare and 90 percent of the time its unconscious manipulation tactic.

Its like you punch the ego or massage it, both are bullshit word games that dont mean anything.

They dont get mad because they are under a spell.

If you accept a compliment as true it will only hurt you in the future as its not real or true.

Edited 10 hours ago by Hojo

[Valach]

2 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

@Valach It would depend on how he goes direct. If he's approaching with generic compliments, with no personality and no authentic charm then I would view him as low value. And, by the way, that's what most people do when they go direct.

"Hey, excuse me, I know this is weird but I saw you from other there and blah blah blah" Basically self qualifying why they're approaching her.

I still go direct from time to time, by the way. As I said, it does work and sometimes it just feels right in the moment. But a) I'm more creative with it and b) I accept that it'll lead to more initial rejections with girls who might've been down had I taken a better approach. 

I think high value comes in a lot of forms. Good game and high value aren't always aligned. But if you were truly high value, and super confident, you wouldn't just approach direct. You would be having more fun with it and being more creative and playful in your approaches because you know you have value and you're complete, so everything you do is just play at that point.

I think we're actually getting closer in our views. I completely agree that approaching from a playful, expressive state is very different from approaching out of validation-seeking.

The only thing I'm still not sure about is whether that playfulness has to take a particular form.

Imagine two equally secure, equally abundant men.

One naturally enjoys teasing and gradually building tension.

The other naturally enjoys being very straightforward and saying, "I thought you looked beautiful, so I wanted to come say hi," without any attachment to the outcome.

Would you really see the second man as lower value, or simply as expressing the same inner security through a different personality?

[Valach]

Just now, Valach said:

One naturally enjoys teasing and gradually building tension.

I feel like you just hang around this forum to troll and not to stimulate any conversations.

[Zenterus]

@Valach Not low value per se, but based on my understanding of female psychology, social and power dynamics, I would characterize that as not as good a game as it could be. 

[Thought Art]

16 minutes ago, Hojo said:

Whenever someone compliment me I get angry. Its why I can never understand people making posts about please compliment the people you think say smart things or posts you agree with. Why? So I can massage your egos? If you agree with someone theres no reason to say I agree with you. Its completely useless information and a waste of time. If you have something to add add it but begging for compliments is cringe af.

If someone compliment me I ignore it, compliments are the same as insults.

'But it will make people feel better' Its not my problem.

Girls dress up because they want people to think they are beautiful. If they are into you, and you tell them… it can open them energetically. They really, really like it. They are sort of insecure and I think when you tell them they really appreciate it. 

It’s not even just a compliment it’s confirming your interest in her. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Thought Art

[Hojo]

@Thought Art Yes I also added

There are genuine compliments but they are rare and 90 percent of the time its unconscious manipulation tactic.

A genuine compliment would be like wow this lightbulb is really useful and expands human life for the good.

Edited 10 hours ago by Hojo

[Hojo]

@Thought Art One time I was serving some old people and the woman say 'You are such a gentleman' I said thank you and instantly felt a metaphysical noose form around my neck. If I accept this compliment I will have to remain a gentleman to this person. If this person somehow decides that I am not a gentleman I will be like, what happened? What did I do wrong?

Slavery.

I wish I could say fk off when people say that shit.

If you told a girl she was beautiful then one day you thought she was ugly then she will cry. Now if you think shes ugly you must lie forever and she must suck up that BS forever.

Edited 9 hours ago by Hojo

[Alexop]

 

Quote

This is the funny thing, actually. The more I develop myself and get rid of my inner insecurity and performative aspects, the more I become aligned with this style of game. It might seem to you that I'm optimizing for the sake of attracting the most women, but the reality is that I came to these conclusions after a lot of contemplation and self inquiry. After a crazy volume of experiences with women, I reached a point where I truly didn't feel aligned with approaching a girl and just stating my intentions directly because THAT started to feel performative. I've had insane abundance with women in my life, and I've realized that unless I actually truly feel connected to the girl, I don't really desire her. I actually do care about who she is and as I develop my social circle, financial abundance and status in my life, holistically, it doesn't make sense for me to approach these women directly. They haven't earned it from me and I don't genuinely feel it. 

Plus, again, high value men don't approach like that, man, they just don't. If you're on your purpose and you're doing awesome shit and you have your tribe and sexual abundance, etc etc, why would you go direct on a girl who you don't even know. Also, this type of approach is antithetical to the girl's experiences when meeting high value guys. If a girl meets a super cool dude in her social circle, she just feels a magnetism towards him and is nervous and excited by the potential she might have with that guy, but she isn't certain if she can have him. I'm basically creating the same narrative and dynamic that a girl typically experiences in her social circle in a cold approach. 

I have to admit that this is pretty cool info. But are you sure you have so much abundance in your life? Why the hell are you approaching a random girl on the streets then?  

And if you have so much abundance, why are you still gaming? What are you lacking? Even more sex?

Nowadays, I am genuinely not interested in a girl who is not a potential lifetime partner. I genuinely don´t care if I add another random body to my count, I am looking to commit to one girl and make her life awesome in the process. I think people with 10+ body count who are still chasing sex are chasing their own tail.

Edited 9 hours ago by Alexop

[Zenterus]

@Alexop Looking for a genuine connection these days for long term.

[Alexop]

@Zenterus cool! You good stuff bro  Thanks for your insights.

[Valach]

38 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

@Valach Not low value per se, but based on my understanding of female psychology, social and power dynamics, I would characterize that as not as good a game as it could be. 

I think I understand your framework now, and I actually agree that your approach may well be more effective on average.

I guess the question I'm left with is whether maximizing attraction should always be the objective.

Imagine that expressing straightforward interest feels like the most authentic thing for someone in that moment. Even if it's slightly less effective than a more playful indirect approach, wouldn't there still be value in expressing themselves honestly rather than optimizing the interaction?

At what point does authenticity become more important than optimization?

This reminds me of a discussion I once had with my coach friend. We asked ourselves:

Which is actually the better outcome?

Going into an interaction with the goal of getting the outcome I want.

Expressing myself as honestly and fully as I can, while being completely okay with whatever outcome follows—even if that means rejection.

It feels like those are two fundamentally different paradigms.

In the first, success is measured by whether I create attraction.

In the second, success is measured by whether I acted in alignment with myself.

Ironically, I suspect the second mindset often ends up being attractive anyway—but that isn't its purpose.

[PsychedelicEagle]

1 hour ago, Zenterus said:

The more I develop myself and get rid of my inner insecurity and performative aspects, the more I become aligned with this style of game. It might seem to you that I'm optimizing for the sake of attracting the most women, but the reality is that I came to these conclusions after a lot of contemplation and self inquiry. After a crazy volume of experiences with women, I reached a point where I truly didn't feel aligned with approaching a girl and just stating my intentions directly because THAT started to feel performative. I've had insane abundance with women in my life, and I've realized that unless I actually truly feel connected to the girl, I don't really desire her. I actually do care about who she is and as I develop my social circle, financial abundance and status in my life, holistically, it doesn't make sense for me to approach these women directly. They haven't earned it from me and I don't genuinely feel it. 

Interesting, thanks for sharing. For me personally I feel very attracted when I see the type of girls I like, so when I communicate that I found them attractive it comes from a genuine place. But I see what you meant about it starting to feel performant. If I approach a girl that I'm not deeply attracted to I feel the same.

[Ulax]

Yay actual flirting. love to see it.

Most people flirt by complimenting which isn't even flirting. Flirting is all about that tension of "will they or won't they".

Direct game is so boring and over-intense to me. 

This is all very Todd v btw.

Edited 8 hours ago by Ulax

[Ulax]

4 hours ago, PsychedelicEagle said:

Fully disagree with this. See the work from Alan Roger Currie — namely "Mode One". You can actually generate A LOT of tension by approaching a girl in an extremely direct way.

The guy is also funny AF:

I've actually applied some of the stuff he teaches with great success. Not recommending it to everyone tho.

The problem here is you can easily waste a lot of time and be deceived. What you call "skill" can be seen, from a certain perspective, as manipulation. You're delaying showing your intentions to improve your chances. As Alan puts it himself: "manipulation is a two-way street". From an angle, the more direct you are the less you manipulate. There are of course ways to be direct without verbally stating it — to acknowledge the nuance and the spectrum in direct vs indirect game, but as general advice I solidly prefer direct game.

For me direct game is optimal: approach the chick, tell her you're interested, she'll either be available and like you or not — either way I win by saving a lot of time. I also get to showcase how ballsy I am from the get go 😛

Direct game is so jarring though. Its like an anvil dropping out of the sky compared to a gradual, seemless shift with indirect.

Indirect is way more socially calibrated and a more pleasant experience for both of you.

[Ulax]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Observational openers are the best. Day or night. And they are easy to do. You just look at whatever she's wearing and say something dumb about it like:

"Hey, you look like a chili pepper" (to girl in red dress)

Observational openers can be very abstract and loose. Like if I see a girl in a green dress, I will just call her Elf girl. "Hey, elf girl!"

You can invent a stupid observational comment about every color of dress girls wear.

Bro I started using your squirrel observational statement from another post.

And chicks LOVE it. Its so funny. I say things like "you're cute, you remind me of a chaotic squirrel"

[Ulax]

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Leo Gura Yes, I know better. I was too complacent last night. However, it’s still a rep. I am aware of the need to talk to people and build state, I’ve done this before while I was here.
 

Sometimes it’s like I’m in this thick gel and everyone seems outside or reach. 
 

I have one more night here I’ll give it another swing. 
 

How can I find wingmen? 
 

thanks,

 

Google game global wings.

 

[PsychedelicEagle]

2 hours ago, Zenterus said:

Plus, again, high value men don't approach like that, man, they just don't. If you're on your purpose and you're doing awesome shit and you have your tribe and sexual abundance, etc etc, why would you go direct on a girl who you don't even know. Also, this type of approach is antithetical to the girl's experiences when meeting high value guys. If a girl meets a super cool dude in her social circle, she just feels a magnetism towards him and is nervous and excited by the potential she might have with that guy, but she isn't certain if she can have him. I'm basically creating the same narrative and dynamic that a girl typically experiences in her social circle in a cold approach. That's optimal game, @PsychedelicEagle. But as I said, this is advanced advice, it's not for beginners! The reason that I can pull this off very well is because my subcommunications are DIALED IN. I don't need to tell a girl directly that I like her for her to perceive me as a sexual prospect. Attraction is not a choice. If you're THAT GUY, she's gonna feel attracted to you regardless. 

I see where you're coming from, and I agree with it completely. However, let me point something out. The idea of "high value" as described here mostly applies to social circles, social events, clubs, parties, etc.

Personally, I don't frequent these types of events that often anymore. The way I go about my game is by going about my life: doing sports, grocery shop, train station. If I see a hot chick who's my type I go talk to her. I then tell her what in her genuinely made me attracted and I start asking her questions, both to see if she's the type of person I'm looking for, and to learn more of her cause I'm curious.

Notice that under these circumstances being indirect is a lot harder than in nightgame. How would you approach the situaion, @Zenterus, say, a hot sports girl in the grocery shop?

Being direct here has so many benefits from my POV, among which: screen if she's taken; prevents her from wasting my time; use it as the opener; facilitates congruency in my body language; sets the frame in her mind; allows me to gauge her attraction level/openness straight away; shows that I'm confident in expressing my true intentions (this is actually a big win — requires high confidence to convey what you really feel as you know); allows me to open without screening for things to open indirectly, etc.

Also, notice that the notion of directness not being perceived as "high value" applies mostly to conventional people attending mainstream venues. People who are nonconformant, have independent thinking, and open-mindedness, are much less likely to associate unconventional behavior to "low value". So from this perspective I also get to screen a bit of her personality and values.

I'm the type of person who values systems and protocols that simplify my life.

Just wanted to point it all out so that people who want to approach game from the same angle can be confident that directness is a completely valid approach, and, IMHO, is not leaving much on the table — depending on the venue and situation where you approach.

Edited 7 hours ago by PsychedelicEagle

[Zenterus]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Zenterus Thanks for your high quality posts.

You're welcome. It's truly a joy being a part of this community