FUCK COMPLIMENTS, This is what ADVANCED Flirting Looks Like! [Not for Beginners]!

[Zenterus]

Here is another VALUE BOMB from your one and only favourite 10 year pickup veteran.

In this thread, I want to share with you my insights on proper flirting, some picked up by various mentors of mine, while others are completely original to me. 

And although this advice is founded in my -- a man's -- experience, I do believe that it is very applicable to women too.

However, before we get into the various concepts that encompass this goldmine of a topic, it is crucial that we first dispel some very common myths around conveying interest to someone you're interested in -- aka flirting.

Myth #1 INTENT AND DIRECT GAME

This one is very prevalent in the PUA community. I've created an old thread about Direct game and its limitations, but to summarize it here: Direct game is ANTITHETICAL to proper flirting and is inherently unoptimal.

Hear me out.

Emotional arousal between the sexes (or same sexes) is a function of effective tension. Tension is created when there is POTENTIAL for romance and sexual intimacy, without certainty.

I'm sure you felt it at some point in your life. Perhaps you had this one co-worker who you had exceptional chemistry with. You picked up on subtle lingering eye contact, minor touching or vague statements that could imply more interest than just the platonic and while you aren't quite sure what it all means, you're still strangely pulled to them and invested into finding out where things might go.

Showing "intent" in the traditional sense where you just bluntly express your attraction to somebody completely breaks this dynamic, because you approach with an overt showcasing of your romantic/sexual interest and thus rob the other person of the experience of wonder and mystery that arouses them over time with more exposure.

Direct game can work, by the way, its just not the optimal approach. Of course, if you go up to a 100 people and directly convey your intentions to them, at least a couple will reciprocate, but that is a matter of luck than actual skill.

What's better is approaching in an indirect or just friendly/curious manner, getting a conversation started from that baseline and then slowly layering in the flirtatious vibe as the interaction progresses.

Myth #2 COMPLIMENTS AND VALIDATION

Compliments are the normies' lifeline when it comes to flirting, but sadly it is also a very low level form of it for the exact same reasons I described above for direct game.

Additional to that, however, is that flirting validates the other person before they ever had the chance to invest in you, thus removing the incentive to invest. If you already know that you have the job and that you're the employer's favourite canditate, would you not make sure you negotiate the better deal for yourself and make sure you get as much out of it as possible? Of course, cause you know you have negotiating power in that context.

Compliments create the same dynamic. When you let someone know that you really like them for x, y and z reasons BEFORE they've invested in you significantly, then they have no reason to invest. Human beings will expend energy in the pursuit of something that is valuable -- in other words, difficult or uncertain in its attainment -- rather than something they know they can have, but once they've invested in the pursuit of that asset heavily then they want to see a return on that investment, which makes complimenting from that moment on more sensical.

Myth #3 NEGGING

This is the insecure pick-up artist's favourite weapon. I know so many guys who once they learn about Negging and Validation Dynamics in terms of Attraction, they abuse them to hell! (Was guilty of this in the past, too.)

Their entire strategy becomes: Diss the girl so that she chases my approval all the way to the bedroom.

Sorry, bro, this might work once every blue moon on some emotionally damaged girl, but it will never work consistently, ESPECIALLY with the most desirable, and thus most confident, women who would actually bring value into your life rather than destruction.

Myth #4 LINES AND ROUTINES

This one is an interesting one, because I actually do have lines that I repeatedly use on various women. The reason that I'm putting this as a myth though is because a lot of guys rely on lines and routines for their flirting without having the right energy behind their words.

They think that just saying the line and "conveying intent" is enough to check it off their checklist of their 12-steps-of-pickup list and are completely missing the emotional component, which is the foundation of proper flirting.
-----------------------------------------------

ADVANCED FLIRTING

Now that we've rid your mind of all these negative beliefs and habits that are ruining your flirting, let's talk about the various ingredients that are essential to proper advanced flirting skills.

1. Vibe

As I hinted above, the best way to flirt starts with you and your emotional state. You can't just go up to someone and mouth lines and routines or do push and pulls and hope for the best when your vibe is emanating a platonic flat energy.

When you're talking to someone you're attracted to, you must first and foremost be super grounded and sensual in your vibe. There should be no shame in yourself as a sexual being, in fact, you should revel in it. Love being sexual, recognize yourself as being sexy and worthy of the person you desire. That is the foundation for everything that comes after.

Next, you must adopt a playful attitude. Proper flirting should feel like a game where you're hinting at your attraction and the potential of you two being together in a playful manner that doesnt feel at all serious.

This comes as a result of feeling, again, good enough and sexy in your own right. If you have self esteem issues, or you lack a deep identification with your sexuality, then the vibe will be off. Do the work to embody all that is you and develop a love for all parts of you, including your sexuality.

Some habits that help with this vibe are:

■ Meditation and Yoga for Groundedness.

■ Limiting masturbation and porn consumption to once a week for Sensuality or even taking salsa/bachata classes.

■ Trying something new in public and having fun being a beginner again and generally just becoming more comfortable with being silly and "imperfect" in public for Playfulness.

2. Body Language

Slow the fuck down.

Slowing down your speech and overall flow, helps accentuate this seductive vibe. And "seductive" is the right way to put it.

Think of a smooth player who speaks in this Morning Radio FM tone, who holds eye contact for a little too long, has a cocky smile that says "I know you want me," who is playfully provocative and whose every move seems deliberate and under intentional control. They never  fall out of frame, they never react, they rarely break tension with a nervous chuckle. No. They thrive in tension. They thrive in moments of silence and they enjoy watching you squirm under the pressure that their lingering eye contact creates in those split second moments.

This energy is very hard to put into words. James Bond comes to mind and various femme fatale characters in Noir cinema. These characters have a subtle sensuality to them, a slowed pace, a holding-of-tension quality that makes them intriguing and irresistible.

Study these characters, understands what makes them so captivating and emulate them.

3. Frame Control

Here, we get into the real gold of this subject: What should you say?

What I've discovered is that sublety is key.

Therefore, instead of directly showing interest, you want to basically ASSUME a romantic/sexual frame and simply playfully call it out in small ways throughout the interaction and escalating from covert to overt as the connection grows.

Here are some examples of this:

Girl: I'm a Gemini.
Guy: Ah fuck.
Girl: What?? You don't like Geminis?
Guy: My mom always told me to stay away from astrology girls..
Girl: Hahah, really?
Guy: Lucky for us though, I like to rebel. Will be bringing a bodyguard to our date though.
Girl: Haha, whatever makes you feel safe

[Underlying frame: I'm evaluating if we should date or not and I found something about you that is potentially a red flag and thus must tread carefully.]

Girl: Where are you from?
Guy: Indonesia.
Girl: Ooh, never been there before!
Guy: Well, now you have a reason to visit

[Underlying frame: You like me and thus you would want to cone visit me in Indonesia.]

Guy: You into Marvel movies?
Girl: Yeah! I LOVE the Dark Knight!
Guy: Oh my god.. I'm breaking up with you, I can't believe you just said that.
Girl: Whaat? What did I say??
Guy: Batman is DC you goof lol

[Underlying frame: We are already together -- playfully -- and you did something to inspire me to want to break up with you.]

The above are perfect examples of what I mean.

Instead of approaching flirting from the frame of "I like you and I am gonna make it obvious with compliments and such," it is much much better to adopt the following frames of "We're evaluating each other for a potential relationship" or "We're already together" or "You like/are seducing me."

Notice that push pulls are still very much present, but there are no direct compliments or validating indicators of interest. This type of indirect flirting, coupled with the vibe and body-language I outlined above, creates a powerful dynamic in the interaction that is the most conducive for building tension and creating real magnetic attraction.

Furthermore, there is intentionality in the order in which I presented the frames to you, as you want there to be a sense of progression.

Ideally this is what it should look like:

A) Negative Evaluation or We're Already Together Frame:

"Oh my God, you're trouble, I have to be careful around you."

"I'm breaking up with you."

B) Push Pull Evaluation:

"My mom always told me to stay away from astrology girls.. Lucky for us though, I like to rebel. Will be bringing a bodyguard to our date though."

C) You like me Frame

"Now you have a reason to visit ;)"

D) You're seducing me Frame.

"Oh, you actually read comics?! Hmm.. I actually like that, fuck. Stop saying the right things, I'm too busy to have a crush right now."

E) Compliments

"Damn, you're surpringly very smart/fun/deep. I like that in a girl"



Don't take all this dogmatically, of course.
You don't have to obsess over progression or how much validation and certainty you're giving off in all this detail. Just having a general understanding of how this works, and why, is enough to set you on the right path.

But when you're adopting this model, it is important that you sit down and do your homework to come up with lines that fit the principles outlined here.

Do NOT steal my lines, dude (please). If you can't come up with your own, authentic way of flirting while adhering to the framework above then you have deeper problems and you should not be trying to adopt this model but, rather, focus on more beginner-friendly advice.

Very interested to hear your thoughts on the above ideas.

Edited 4 hours ago by Zenterus

[Butters]

36 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

Compliments are the normies' lifeline when it comes to flirting, but sadly it is also a very low level form of it for the exact same reasons I described above for direct game.

Additional to that, however, is that flirting validates the other person before they ever had the chance to invest in you, thus removing the incentive to invest. If you already know that you have the job and that you're the employer's favourite canditate, would you not make sure you negotiate the better deal for yourself and make sure you get as much out of it as possible? Of course, cause you know you have negotiating power in that context.

Compliments create the same dynamic. When you let someone know that you really like them for x, y and z reasons BEFORE they've invested in you significantly, then they have no reason to invest. Human beings will expend energy in the pursuit of something that is valuable -- in other words, difficult or uncertain in its attainment -- rather than something they know they can have, but once they've invested in the pursuit of that asset heavily then they want to see a return on that investment, which makes complimenting from that moment on more sensical.

Holy shit that is so try-hard. You can have a fun flirty conversation without any of this. 

[Spiral]

Technically flirting is indirect. So compliments are not flirting at all

”So I like your hair” isn’t flirting, it’s just a statement.

”I only like girls with thin gray hair, so you’re not really my type”  would be despite communicating the same thing

[Zenterus]

4 minutes ago, Butters said:

Holy shit that is so try-hard. You can have a fun flirty conversation without any of this. 

This is advanced game for people who actually go out and want to get consistent results, especially with the hottest women. Everything is try hard before you've tried it and become habituated to it.

[Zenterus]

1 minute ago, Spiral said:

Technically flirting is indirect. So compliments are not flirting at all

”So I like your hair” isn’t flirting, it’s just a statement.

”I only like girls with thin gray hair, so you’re not really my type”  would be despite communicating the same thing

Exactly.

[AION]

That is a good list. The ones I would add:

5. Preselection

This is 50% of the work. You need to show up with stunning girls. Other girls will see that and your work will literally be 50% easier

6. Crush egos

If you show up with a 10/10, other girls ego will be crushed and they will want to sleep with you to feel worthy. Women are very shallow. Never forget that. Also never give any compliments like you say becuase that only pumps up their egos. Only if she truly deserves it.

Push pulls, ego games, mogging and flexing is a key part to date fertile women which is basically girls between 20-25. If you aim for older women, you can be boring and a fart. But dating fertile young beautiful women is a different ball game. It is all about inner game nowadays.

Edited 3 hours ago by AION

[Zenterus]

31 minutes ago, AION said:

That is a good list. The ones I would add:

5. Preselection

This is 50% of the work. You need to show up with stunning girls. Other girls will see that and your work will literally be 50% easier

6. Crush egos

If you show up with a 10/10, other girls ego will be crushed and they will want to sleep with you to feel worthy. Women are very shallow. Never forget that. Also never give any compliments like you say becuase that only pumps up their egos. Only if she truly deserves it.

Push pulls, mogging and flexing is a key part to date fertile women which is basically girls between 20-25. If you aim for older women, you can be boring and a fart. But dating fertile young beautiful women is a different ball game. It is all about inner game nowadays.

I agree that Preselection is a powerful tool for attracting women but it doesnt fall under the "flirting unbrella."

Edited 2 hours ago by Zenterus

[AION]

23 minutes ago, AION said:

That is a good list. The ones I would add:

5. Preselection

This is 50% of the work. You need to show up with stunning girls. Other girls will see that and your work will literally be 50% easier

6. Crush egos

If you show up with a 10/10, other girls ego will be crushed and they will want to sleep with you to feel worthy. Women are very shallow. Never forget that. Also never give any compliments like you say becuase that only pumps up their egos. Only if she truly deserves it.

Push pulls, ego games, mogging and flexing is a key part to date fertile women which is basically girls between 20-25. If you aim for older women, you can be boring and a fart. But dating fertile young beautiful women is a different ball game. It is all about inner game nowadays.

Wtf. @Leo GuraI got a warning for this post by Natasha. This is not the first time I got a warning for nothing. You need to look into her behavior. She doesn’t come off as stable. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

29 minutes ago, AION said:

That is a good list. The ones I would add:

5. Preselection

This is 50% of the work. You need to show up with stunning girls. Other girls will see that and your work will literally be 50% easier

6. Crush egos

If you show up with a 10/10, other girls ego will be crushed and they will want to sleep with you to feel worthy. Women are very shallow. Never forget that. Also never give any compliments like you say becuase that only pumps up their egos. Only if she truly deserves it.

Push pulls, ego games, mogging and flexing is a key part to date fertile women which is basically girls between 20-25. If you aim for older women, you can be boring and a fart. But dating fertile young beautiful women is a different ball game. It is all about inner game nowadays.

Don't be sexist. Simple. 

See markup to clarify any confusion. 

Feel free to argue your case the above bolded isn't sexist with Leo. 

VIA pm please.

Thanks.

Edited 2 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Sandroew]

When i clicked on this i thought its going to be another women hating post, because of the title.

AAND never mind it went there in the comments.

[Zenterus]

5 minutes ago, AION said:

Wtf. @Leo GuraI got a warning for this post by Natasha. This is not the first time I got a warning for nothing. You need to look into her behavior. She doesn’t come off as stable. 

I mean dude.. you are calling women shallow and talking about crushing egos and such. 

Yes, use preselection but drop all the woman demonization and hateful language.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Flirting is sort of the language of subtext using all sorts of communication methods... Intonation, tone, language, emphasis, body language, eye contact, physical touch. It's a crazy dialogue.

100% agree regarding the tension piece, and the bulk of the post. 

Personally, I love it when someone I have chemistry with leans in to whisper in my ear. Just that action of the man leaning forward and holding a hand up to his face, palm facing inwards, is an automatic benign invite that could reveal...who knows what! You get to feel their breath, the heat. Hear words spoken in hushed tones which convey different spectrums of emotion typically.

And whispers like that are great - it's probably not going to escalate too pre-emptively (creates perceived safety as a woman) because it is a dialogue both parties are familiar with (lean in, hand up, she leans in, words spoken - lean out and watch reaction). And you get to speak words that imply they aren't for all to know....

I'd imagine there are all kids of ways to fuck this up, but it's a prompt. The girl can decide to lean in or not. And how eagerly she does so (or if there is hesitation) is a good temperature read on her interest.

Anyway your post prompted my sperg 🙃🙂🙃

 

[AION]

So is it also forbidden to say humans are shallow? Because I was talking about women and that is why I said women are shallow.

But if I talk about men are shallow. Would I get a warning for that? No I wouldn’t.

I also wouldn’t get a warning if I said humans are shallow. That doesn’t make sense. 

Humans are shallow with some exceptions. And I’m not above it. So how can that be women hating? Because I say I’m shallow myself too. And I think that is ok. It is only not ok if you pretend you are while you are not. wtf is this bullshit. 

[Zenterus]

@Natasha Tori Maru Always a joy to hear a woman's perspective on these topics. We need more of that on this forum.

I'll try out the whispering thing, haha. You're responsible for my bail if I end up getting arrested though. 😤

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@AION PM Leo please.

Stop derailing OPs thread.

[AION]

14 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@AION PM Leo please.

Stop derailing OPs thread.

It is not derailing though. I just gave 1 response to you just like the others. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@AION you're whinging. And your logic is flawed. 

PM Leo. I won't ask again.

This thread isn't to discuss sexism, how the website is moderated, or dictating what others should tolerate because of our own low standards.

[AION]

@Natasha Tori Maru 🤣