Drama Alert! Another YTber is calling us a cult! 😈☦️

[Natasha Tori Maru]

40 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Lady, you don't know how this forum is setup.

I don't need to, I have total control over my eyes, what they read and where they go.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

49 minutes ago, zurew said:

This special privilege-giving attitude alone goes against the core "you shouldn't idolize me and should only focus on the work" teaching. This is why most of us here have emphasized this multiple times. That there is the teaching, and then there is what goes down in practice. 

There is so much mixed messaging from Leo around this, I am not surprised the continued repetition has worn some users rationality down.

Treating someone as “special” or above normal standards contradicts the very message that person teaches.

We should not elevate a person above the principles they promote. Judge the ideas, behaviour, and evidence. Not the status of the individual.

[aurum]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

You have this premise - "I manage to successfully verify some of the claims he said" - and then from there you want to get to "therefore I believe he is justfied to behave the way he does, and therefore this Leo dude is justified in believing that he is the most awake person in existence"???. Thats a big fucking jump there.

It's a big jump because that's obviously not how I think about it.

I don't know how exactly Leo sees himself. Does he even think of himself as a "person" at all? Who knows.

He obviously thinks extremely highly of his awakening, but it's not unwarranted.

Maybe there are people alive with a better understanding than him on God, but I don't know any.

1 hour ago, zurew said:

Also to give my personal opinion on this—I think you are insane for this. You shouldn't give such special privileges to anyone. The ethics you are okay with should not be dictated by anyone, regardless of how spiritually awake they are or how asymmetric the knowledge difference is. (And yes, Leo has made such comments and justifications in the past where he implied multiple times that the cognitive undermining and "Im the most awake" rhetoric he used was necessary to help the "closed-minded" awaken)

It has nothing to do with ethics.

It's more like I'm sometimes willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he might know something I don't.

For example, I don't know about Alien Awakening. But I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt there might be something there and will test it.

This is just called trust.

Yes, you obviously you still need to maintain your own autonomy. But you can actually build trust when someone has demonstrated they deserve it over a period of years.

Every healthy relationship also requires some trust.

And you are closed-minded, so I'm not going to fault him for hitting you over the head about that. 

1 hour ago, zurew said:

This special privilege-giving attitude alone goes against the core "you shouldn't idolize me and should only focus on the work" teaching. This is why most of us here have emphasized this multiple times. That there is the teaching, and then there is what goes down in practice. 

I don't idolize him, and I do focus on the work.

This is whole thread is the most I've thought about Leo in a long time. I would prefer to just move on, but I felt I should address it since this thread was blowing up.

1 hour ago, zurew said:

And to be very clear on this -  All of this comparative "who is the most awake" shit is inferentially justified and both you and Leo know this. And both you and Leo know that such inferential comparative judgements are subject to be wrong (especially , again, when you dont have access to all the data that you make your claims about)

Sure, fine.

1 hour ago, zurew said:

And as an additional point to all of that, the Relativity (where there are ever-deeper awakenings and previous shit gets recontextualized by additional shit) alone should make Leo much more reserved about making "who is the most awake" claims. You have no clue how your next awakening will recontextualize your understanding of the awakening hierarchy/scale. All of this shit is retrospectively justified and retrospectively recontextualized (again, even if I grant that the Relativity frame is not just epistemic and conceptual but that it is actually robustly metaphysical).

Sure, as long as you don't expect me to think Relativity means you get to gaslight me with your nonsense and I have to consider it "equally valid".

Turns out understanding things is possible.

[Miguel1]

This is not good. We should clear this

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, aurum said:

It's more like I'm sometimes willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he might know something I don't.

For example, I don't know about Alien Awakening. But I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt there might be something there and will test it.

This is just called trust.

Yes, you obviously you still need to maintain your own autonomy. But you can actually build trust when someone has demonstrated they deserve it over a period of years.

Alien Awakening to me is simple. It's when you take Terrence McKenna style "realizations"/hallucinations/ideations and explain them from the perspective of a narcissist who thinks they're the best in the world.

That said, "I could be wrong", just like I could be wrong that Leo is probably not the most awake person in the world. But this is what it seems to me. Just like you can give "benefit of the doubt" based on observations of his past behavior, you can also do the opposite.

Edited 4 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Elliott]

5 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I don't need to, I have total control over my eyes, what they read and where they go.

Then quit giving incoherent advice

[Elliott]

3 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

This is not good. We should clear this

1,000 posts of logically inconsistent harassment led by a schizotypal and a ASPD.

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Natasha Tori Maru]

14 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Then quit giving incoherent advice

You don't have to take it. 

You don't have to read it 🙂

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

You don't have to take it. 

You don't have to read it 🙂

You don't understand how the site works. Please leave me alone.

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Just now, Elliott said:

Ya, you still don't understand how the site works. Please leave me alone.

Sure I do! No problemo. 

[Human Mint]

13 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Human Mint thinks Trump has never admitted being wrong even though he has.

Last scandal with the red card says otherwise... He didn't even bothered figuring out the rules, just go by feel.

But here it just happen to be that some of you agree on the same critique, even though your entire worldviews are quite unique. After reading the critiques of every single one of you I understand your positioning doesn't appear just because one single Leo's claim, it is a product of a particular sensemaking choice.

You can keep criticizing, I am not against that. For one I think is healthy beyond right or wrongness. The only thing I want to say is you can be wrong too. You may at some point in your life come to a realization that matches what Leo says, and at that point you're probably not gonna be interested in arguing about it, but more invested in making sense.