Drama Alert! Another YTber is calling us a cult! 😈☦️

[Elliott]

Imagine Leo at the grocery, a narcissist? At a festival, family gathering?......  I think he's shy. I also think he's unconditionally put a TON of love out into the world. 

Love ya Leo, you're the real deal, fuck these puritans.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Elliott

[zurew]

52 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It is easy to do though, but it is a clinical diagnosis.

its not a clinical diagnosis if its done by non-professionals.

its needless to say that we are doing armchair psychology here and it should be taken as such.

 

But its probably more useful to focus again on whats the actual disagreement is with the specific claims that were laid down.

I have also yet to see an actualizer who is willing to make a detailed , good quality positive case for Leo and who isnt just in skeptic mode or in attacker mode (where he tries to question the detailed negative cases made against Leo - not that thats an issue, but it would be cool to see a detailed positive case made for Leo where most of the facts that I pointed towards in my longer posts are accounted for and  explained)

Edited 5 hours ago by zurew

[Joshe]

4 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I'm sorry if you already explained this, but by all contexts you obviously don't mean outside of this time he spends on this forum, even in his videos he's not like that. We don't know how he is in daily life, you don't believe he could be different outside the forum because of the consistency over ten years? Most people behave differently 1.) Online and 2.) In a role of authority, you don't believe this could be the case because it's been 10 years?

I haven't explained it, and I don't really think I can. By "all" I meant all the contexts that we have access to, which for me has been sufficient to arrive at my position. I understand it doesn't feel sufficient for most, and I wouldn't be able to convince anyone of my read because the only way is to arrive at it yourself. 

Maybe the best I can do is ask: what kind of person would wear an overt narcissistic mask consistently for over a decade as a business strategy? 

Also, it most certainly does exist in his videos, just more sparse and often subtle. He even has a weird face that he makes right after he makes a point about his highness. 

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Joshe said:

 

Maybe the best I can do is ask: what kind of person would wear an overt narcissistic mask consistently for over a decade as a business strategy? 

I don't think it's overt to most people including himself, but my answer would be an insecure one. Have you ever had a superior that acted this way, it's common, because of insecurity or 'The Peter Principle ', even a professor or teacher.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

There are many missing data points, not the least of which is how Leo conducts himself in real life. Which is a larger data range than online posts in a microcosm. 

It would be a flaw to disregard real life data.

I still think a reasonable inference can be made.

[Joshe]

3 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I don't think it's overt to most people including himself, but my answer would be an insecure one. Have you ever had a superior that acted this way, it's common, because of insecurity or 'The Peter Principle ', even a professor or teacher.

Interesting. Never heard of the Peter principle before. But no, I've never had a superior tell me he's superior to me intellectually, even if he was. 

Yes, narcissism emerges to solve insecurity, and that's the sad part. The hurt child deserves empathy. We can hold compassion for how/why it started and still recognize what it became. It's hard to really hate anyone when you see this. But I still have a responsibility to honor reality by acknowledging what is in front of me. 

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I reread all my posts and what you quoted - can you really tell me you saw a clear accusation? 

[Elliott]

12 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Interesting. Never heard of the Peter principle before. But no, I've never had a superior tell me he's superior to me intellectually, even if he was. 

Yes, narcissism emerges to solve insecurity, and that's the sad part. The hurt child deserves empathy. We can hold compassion for how/why it started and still recognize what it became. It's hard to really hate anyone when you see this. But I still have a responsibility to honor reality by acknowledging what is in front of me. 

Would a narcissist typically allow a thread like this on their forum? Also remember, he uses/used drugs.

Edited 4 hours ago by Elliott

[Joshe]

4 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Would a narcissist typically allow a thread like this on their forum?

Typically, no. But Leo isn't the typical narcissist, obviously. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

9 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Oh! I get it.

I didn't think you were married to your opinion, so my bad for assuming. I went down a line of enquiry to figure out under what circumstances you thought Leo might be able to change given your behaviour/fixed personality statements. I didn't realise the conclusion wasn't up for debate, even if I could decifer under what conditions change of personality is possible in your worldview 

Edited 4 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Elliott]

2 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Typically, no. But Leo isn't the typical narcissist, obviously. 

Hmm...🤔 what's your theory for this anomaly?

[Joshe]

Maybe y'all don't remember when Leo was having his conversations with God, Neale Walsch style. He shared his conversations. He asked God "Why am I a narcissist?" and God responded "Because you are". 

Anyone else remember this? I mean, this has had no bearing on my position, but when Leo was channelling God, this is one the questions he was curious about. 

[Elliott]

Just now, Joshe said:

Maybe y'all don't remember when Leo was having his conversations with God, Neale Walsch style. He shared his conversations. He asked God "Why am I a narcissist?" and God responded "Because you are". 

Anyone else remember this? I mean, this has had no bearing on my position, but when Leo was channelling God, this is one the questions he was curious about. 

Do narcissists typically question their narcissism?

[Joshe]

Just now, Elliott said:

Hmm...🤔 what's your theory for this anomaly?

A large part of his self-image is that he doesn't get bothered and isn't affected by "petty human bullshit". Because, he's "above" all that. He's so above it, it doesn't even register to him, or so he portrays and wishes. Being affected by some fools on a forum running their mouths about him is beneath him. 

It's commonly thought that he allows it to stave off cult accusations or that he's lenient, but the real reason is to project the self-image of being above the petty human bullshit. Duh!

[Joshe]

8 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Do narcissists typically question their narcissism?

Not typically. But perceptive narcissists do. And they'd be much more likely to if they were being intimate with God. 

[Joshe]

@Elliott Also, notice a non-narcissist would never even ask the question. It would never occur to me to ask God that. Only a narc would ask it. lol

[Joshe]

Anyway, I'm not liking having to continue to put Leo down to prove points, so I'm out for now. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Joshe

[Elliott]

45 minutes ago, Joshe said:

@Elliott Also, notice a non-narcissist would never even ask the question. It would never occur to me to ask God that. Only a narc would ask it. lol

Even if your friends told you you're a narcissist?

 

I appreciate you entertaining my firehose of questioning I know it can be annoying but figured I'd try given that I know you're honest and a critical thinker.

Here's my critique of your critique

You think Leo is a perceptive narcissist that let's his forum attack him publicly, a narcissist being someone that wants validation, while Leo having the public persona of a master of life(someone that would obviously overcome narcissism). I assume you would believe a person of average intelligence would recognize his "overt narcissism" that is regularly called out here: therefore the logical conclusion would be that Leo is seeking validation from people that he believes is below average intelligence, Leo, all the while knowing he's an overt narcissist and therefore alienating intelligent people and people of average intelligence from admiring him. A perceptive narcissist means someone that can perceive what others believe, perhaps you believe he has one blindspot; that people of average intelligence recognize the overt narcisissm, but then your grievance here would be somewhat counterproductive: effectively giving him advice to be a better narcissist and hide it from intelligent people. You think he knows he's a narcissist.

Edited 3 hours ago by Elliott

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

Even if your friends told you you're a narcissist?

 

I appreciate you entertaining my firehose of questioning I know it can be annoying but figured I'd try given that I know you're honest and a critical thinker.

Here's my critique of your critique

You think Leo is a perceptive narcissist that let's his forum attack him publicly, a narcissist being someone that wants validation, while Leo having the public persona of a master of life(someone that would obviously overcome narcissism). I assume you would believe a person of average intelligence would recognize his "overt narcissism" that is regularly called out here: therefore the logical conclusion would be that Leo is seeking validation from people that he believes is below average intelligence, Leo, all the while knowing he's an overt narcissist and therefore alienating intelligent people and people of average intelligence from admiring him. A perceptive narcissist means someone that can perceive what others believe, perhaps you believe he has one blindspot; that people of average intelligence recognize the overt narcisissm, but then your grievance here would be somewhat counterproductive: effectively giving him advice to be a better narcissist and hide it from intelligent people. You think he knows he's a narcissist.

No problem at all! 

The part where I mentioned he asked God why he was a narc, that's not a thing in my model of Leo. I was just highlighting it to show there have at least been moments of recognition. I don't know to what extent he recognizes it and I don't have any real data aside from that one admission. It would be interested to dive into this though because he publicly states that he's not a narc. So that would be interesting to explore.

I intuit he knows it and realizes there's nothing he can do about it, and he knows that it's not something he can publicly own up to. "Yeah, I'm a narc" from the a guy who teaches consciousness and ego transcendence doesn't go over well. Also, when I say Leo is aware of it, I don't mean he's fully aware of it. I mean that he knows it's there. If I had to guess, he probably hasn't dissected it very much. But it's possible he has dissected it and is just something he lives with. 

Narcissism is not a selected conscious strategy. It's an operative one outside one's control. It would be like recognizing you're an introvert and not being able to do anything about it. You know you're an introvert, and you can't change it. That's what it is like to be a perceptive narcissist. It's just who and how you are and you live with it and don't experience it as a bad thing because it's what rewards you. It's native. 

He's not consciously seeking validation or superiority. He's not intentionally alienating people. The seeking is unconscious but the expression is granted. When a structure is that deep in you, it operates without you. When Leo's narcissism slips, it's not intentional, it's reactive. He NEEDS to elevate himself and the only way to do it is by putting someone else down. This is the main thing hiding behind his constant bashing of scientists. They're in his domain of "exploring reality" and they claim to be intellectually sophisticated, and that's Leo's turf. 

Regarding why the overt narcissism doesn't destroy the supply: because Leo is intelligent enough to say things like "look, when I tell you I'm the most advanced, I'm just telling you what I've observed and found to be true, it has nothing to do with any ego drive, that's absurd. You guys take me for a fool." That and several other tactics are used to give plausible deniability. And it works because almost everyone here respects and trusts Leo as an intelligent thought leader. 

And yes, putting this information out makes it so he can adapt. But here's the thing: he can dial it down but he won't be able to stop, because it's his nature. He's not going to starve himself of that reward indefinitely. 

Hopefully that clears it up, but lmk. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Joshe

[integral]

Actualized.org Analyzer i just built in 30 seconds. (im posting as a joke, its incomplete)

@Natasha Tori Maru @Carl-Richard @zurew @Thought Art @Wilhelm44 @Joshe @Osaid @No1Here2c

 

It's completely wrong, but I just thought it was funny so I posted it. (if you can't read: right click -> open image in new tab + magnify)

I'd have to do a lot of work to get this to be accurate

Edited 2 hours ago by integral