Drama Alert! Another YTber is calling us a cult! 😈☦️

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

The VIP members list.

According to the unknown tao.  Of course.

[Thought Art]

Stay well everyone, I will focus on my project here. 
 

1,2,3,4!!!

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I'm sensing you haven't been able to express your anger in a normal way or so you state.  

Wildly incorrect. I am extremely emotive and angry in expression, often. I show all kinds of emotions and do not suppress. 

I would like to know what you mean by "normal way"

I simply do not direct it AT someone (I genuinely try not to, at least) and try never to attack back. My defence is normally stonewalling. I give others nothing back to further energise their anger when it is directed at me. Most people who are in a highly energised attack state want that energy bounced back to feed them.

You've mischaracterised me a few times now. And again - it comes down to what you yourself consistently reinforce; you have little idea what I am like, expressively, in real life. Totally different to the impressions I probably make here 🫠

@Thought Art banter and calling the chippies and trades names is par the course - especially on Australia. I've only had to face really hard aggressive anger when it's someone I do not have rapport with. 

But when I know someone, I can tell them to fuck off and they understand there is no actual personal ill wishing on my behalf of there wellfare. Context matters 100% 

I am never one to suppress. I get called unprofessional due to my emptying, more than anything else. But I do not, or try not, to direct my emotions at someone. Or weaponised them. I throw things at the office frequently. I abuse inanimate objects a lot when angry 

Like you raised it's a big challenge in stocism. It's not about repressing. But holding space for you own emotions, as well as anothers.

Edited 9 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[UnbornTao]

4 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Just watch who asks the leading questions... Telling

And the strawmaning of @zurew's position.

Definitely.

[Wilhelm44]

8 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'm saying the experiences of personal abuse, belittling, etc. has been worse. There were other aspects of the cult that were more destabilizing (the very wacky beliefs and eventual doomsday ideations). I stay here for various reasons.

If you're experiencing abuse here worse than in an actual cult, it is a bit strange that you still deciding to stay. Must be some massive benefits then.

(Also the real cult that you referring to is something that happened on Dischord apparently. You can hardly compare that to something like the MAPLE cult discussed by @Consilience in the other thread.)

It sounded to me like Leo felt insulted by you guys insinuating that this is a cult, and he said something to the effect of: makes me not want to teach you guys anymore. Kind of similar to something I heard a teacher say many a time with regards to an unruly class. You said you felt personally threatened by that.

No disrespect, but I think it's hardly comparable to the type of personal threats one would probably receive in a place like MAPLE.

"I could be wrong though."

(Adding this phrase as a caveat at the end, so that @zurew doesn't think I'm running a cult.)

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Wilhelm44

[Thought Art]

If you being abused here (which I doubt). You should probably leave. If this community, Leo, and his videos are not helping you or supporting you and you feel this way you should leave. Take a break. Always free to come and go. 
 

But, it’s obvious to me you guys don’t watch his videos. I know a lot of you have admitted this and then you wonder why this is so confusing. His epistemic responsibility video for example answers so much of your guys criticisms, and clears Leo’s attitudes towards these things. 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

If you being abused here (which I doubt). You should probably leave. If this community, Leo, and his videos are not helping you or supporting you and you feel this way you should leave. Take a break. Always free to come and go. 
 

But, it’s obvious to me you guys don’t watch his videos. I know a lot of you have admitted this and then you wonder why this is so confusing. His epistemic responsibility video for example answers so much of your guys criticisms, and clears Leo’s attitudes towards these things. 

I don't think anyone is attacking Leo that directly, do you think?  I think people are just discussing what they feel is important.  It could be topics that go beyond Leo.

[Thought Art]

@Joseph Maynor Hmmm, well, you’ll have to decide I don’t know what you mean by attack. There have been people here actively accusing Leo of being a cult leader, many mods and members. 
 

This video destroys cults, belief, etc. A cult leader could not and would not make this video. 

[zurew]

I think its worth to bring some attention back to the fact about how little is being asked from Leo and from the community here (regardless whether you agree with the operating definition of cult used by me or by other people who call this place a cult)

It also seemed to have been the case, that even most people here who disagreed with the label, they mostly agreed desriptively with the underlying issues that were outlined here and they also agreed that it would be cool if those things would be resolved - but I personally havent seen any of them bring up these issues to Leo or bring Leo's attention to these issues, and I think thats quite clearly a collective failure.

The defenses provided here were almost never that the provided data and facts arent true or that they arent problematic -  the defense was that the problematic facts  arent sufficient to satisfy your working definition of a cult.

It also worth to bring attention back to the fact how disagreement was largely handled here. After agreeing with you that the things that you outlined are problematic, those same members want you to leave the group rather than collabing with you and putting pressure on the leader to make a change about things that everyone agreed are problematic and whose resolution would make everything better. 

[Wilhelm44]

Start a separate thread then where you focus on the actual complaints. Throwing in the cult word prematurely has not been very productive at all, it just leads to a shit show. 

[Wilhelm44]

"My point wasn't to paint all moderators with a single brush. My critique is strictly operational: when internal friction gets weaponized publicly, it drains the engine."

Spot on.  @LordFall

Edited 3 hours ago by Wilhelm44