Destiny foreign policy is very Western biased and Stage Orange

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Do these rich people not understand what is it like to live like this?

Dude, they do it on purpose. That's exactly what they did with Iran.

All they care about is power and control.

They will capture Cuba and privatize it to corporations. That's all they care about.

Edited Tuesday at 12:16 AM by Leo Gura

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Iran is 100% correct when they say that America is the great Satan. And Israel the little Satan.

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Iran is 100% correct when they say that America is the great Satan. And Israel the little Satan.

Correct.

[Nivsch]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

War with Iran is purely a Zionist project. Netanyahu has been pushing that war for 25 years and he can go fuck himself.

If China openly threatened Taiwan with destruction for decades, while trying to develope nuclear weapon, wouldn't it be legitimate for Taiwan to attack China's nuclear program or try to collapse its regime?

Edited Tuesday at 12:49 AM by Nivsch

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

If China openly threatened Taiwan with destruction for decades, while trying to develope nuclear weapon, wouldn't it be legitimate for Taiwan to attack China's nuclear program or try to collapse its regime?

If China never directly attacked Taiwan and only attacked in response to direct attacks from Taiwan, which was the case with Iran and israel, it would be a illegal war of aggression from Taiwan to attack, yes.

Iran was not seeking to make nuclear weapons, they agreed to allow inspectors and keep enrichment well below weaponization threshold, israel lobbied against this deal. The threat of nuclear weapons is now greater as their uranium is spread around the country and the leadership will become more extreme when faced with survival and possibly no longer agree to not seek nuclear weapons.

A better question is if a country like israel which is actively destroying Palestine and actually did make nuclear weapons outside of the non-proliferation treaty, is it legitimate to attack it?

Edited Tuesday at 02:14 AM by Raze

[Lyubov]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

If China openly threatened Taiwan with destruction for decades, while trying to develope nuclear weapon, wouldn't it be legitimate for Taiwan to attack China's nuclear program or try to collapse its regime?

No, because Taiwan is indisputably part of China. Read up the history. But I do not support any war and any reunification should happen 100% through diplomacy. I may not even support reunification and perhaps a diplomatic relationship where Taiwan is able to remain autonomous 

Your country stole a bunch of land and then pretends to be the victim and the defender. Imagine someone breaks into your house and then when you attack them to get out they shoot back saying it’s their home and they live there and are acting in self defense, doesn’t make much sense does it?

You might say you won some wars so it’s like some realpolitik, legitimizes your country because historically war has shaped many countries… but it’s not the same cause this only happened like 77 years ago and clearly it’s not been resolved and is not an excuse for you guys magically having a land deed on the place especially considering you guys call yourselves a democracy. 

The only way Israel can logically make sense is if the state and people of Israel acknowledge they are a colonial stolen land country  and refuse to move because that would simply be too disruptive, which I would in a sense agree with that. Then there come be a two state solution (which you guys should never have been promised 55% of the land originally, why would a tiny minority of people get to displace all the natives and get 55% of their land? Just cause the British and USA say so? )But you guys have to lie and lie and make up the most ridiculously twisted arguments to justify your violence and existence. 

Edited Tuesday at 05:47 AM by Lyubov

[Nivsch]

@Lyubov The fact that the nature of how countries are established is being ignored as if Israel were the only country in the world created through a cycle of violence (while the rest were created through love I assume?) and the fact that none of the other cases, including one happened two months ago, got any attention from the relevant camp, just shows me the more the time passes, that the right wing anti Palestinian camp and the anti Israeli camp are mirror reflections.

Edited Tuesday at 12:21 PM by Nivsch

[Husseinisdoingfine]

مرگ بر آمریکا مرگ بر اسرائیل

[Lyubov]

5 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@Lyubov The fact that the nature of how countries are established is being ignored as if Israel were the only country in the world created through a cycle of violence (while the rest were created through love I assume?) and the fact that none of the other cases, including one happened two months ago, got any attention from the relevant camp, just shows me the more the time passes, that the right wing anti Palestinian camp and the anti Israeli camp are mirror reflections.

I come from neither of those camps though. I don't advocate for complete destruction of current Israel, obviously that would cause an even bigger humanitarian crisis. It's kind of understandable why so many arab people have a hardline stance on Israel though, why would you bargain or strike a deal with thieves especially when it just happened to your grandparents. It's like someone steals your grandparents land a bombs the F out of you and now you are expected to negotiate and give up land to your invaders? You're basically letting them get away with it. 

This is a common talking point Israel throws up though about how "everyone ignores when they do it but when we do it we get called out!" but it's not true. Every colonial country is having their reckoning with this. It's just that Israel's crimes are still very fresh hence why you hear more about it. I would support even more land and resources being given back to the Native Americans but they have almost entirely been genocide'd out, this is what israel wishes they could do with the Palestinians who had their land stolen. 

Edited Tuesday at 02:38 PM by Lyubov

[Lyubov]

I don't really have a solution. I think the USA will basically have to decline in power like it is now, and the USA will hopefully kick out all the Israel lobby and spending, I think the only lasting peace that will come is Israel having a much weaker military and being forced to come to the table to negotiate and probably be a huge humiliation by giving land reparations. Either that or there will be forever wars until there is a really big one which decides who will own the land further and Israel will go down in history as a state built on genocide. 

Edited Tuesday at 02:42 PM by Lyubov

[Nivsch]

@Lyubov If I were part of a people in Europe after all they had gone through, I wouldn't accept any external proposal except to build my autonomy in my own hands, in the place I feel connected to.
It is very convenient to only see half of the picture.
I don't deny the problems or that things could have been done differently, but I disagree that Jews could have simply chosen another location.

Edited Tuesday at 03:07 PM by Nivsch

[Elliott]

17 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Lyubov If I were part of a people in Europe after all they had gone through, I wouldn't accept any external proposal except to build my autonomy in my own hands, in the place I feel connected to.
It is very convenient to only see half of the picture.
I don't deny the problems or that things could have been done differently, but I disagree that Jews could have simply chosen another location.

And you're okay with the West not helping you? Thats the only issue.

[Nivsch]

22 minutes ago, Elliott said:

And you're okay with the West not helping you? Thats the only issue.

Nobody has to help me. I need to find the way to move forward.

Edited Tuesday at 03:48 PM by Nivsch

[zazen]

Maybe having a superpower like the US on Israel side has been a major problem in its own way - because both states interests align in dominating the region and US provides a level of impunity to Israel that allow it to dominate and be maximalist.

Israel has a toxic combination of impunity from a superpower, and a high sensitive to any threat due to historic trauma (post Holocaust) and a religion that is easy to distort towards entitlement (chosen people framing) meaning less likely to compromise and easily tilted towards supremacist attitude.

The world being angry at Israel only intensifies that mentality (us vs the world that’s anti-Semitic). Even now after this Iran war being started - much of the West (US which Israel relies on) is seen as Israel’s doing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg4g66r3z40o

Joe Kent Top US counterterrorism official resigns from Trump Admin

”After much reflection, I have decided to resign from my position as Director of the National Counterterrorism Center, effective today.

I cannot in good conscience support the ongoing war in Iran. Iran posed no imminent threat to our nation, and it is clear that we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby.”

Read his whole letter: https://x.com/joekent16jan19/status/2033897242986209689?s=46&t=DuLUbFRQFGpB8oo7PwRglQ

Strong words against Israel’s role.

[Elliott]

15 minutes ago, zazen said:

Maybe having a superpower like the US on Israel side has been a major problem in its own way - because both states interests align in dominating the region and US provides a level of impunity to Israel that allow it to dominate and be maximalist.

Israel has a toxic combination of impunity from a superpower, and a high sensitive to any threat due to historic trauma (post Holocaust) and a religion that is easy to distort towards entitlement (chosen people framing) meaning less likely to compromise and easily tilted towards supremacist attitude.

The world being angry at Israel only intensifies that mentality (us vs the world that’s anti-Semitic). Even now after this Iran war being started - much of the West (US which Israel relies on) is seen as Israel’s doing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg4g66r3z40o

Joe Kent Top US counterterrorism official resigns from Trump Admin

”After much reflection, I have decided to resign from my position as Director of the National Counterterrorism Center, effective today.

I cannot in good conscience support the ongoing war in Iran. Iran posed no imminent threat to our nation, and it is clear that we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby.”

Read his whole letter: https://x.com/joekent16jan19/status/2033897242986209689?s=46&t=DuLUbFRQFGpB8oo7PwRglQ

Strong words against Israel’s role.

As much damage as Republicans are doing to the West, if ICC eventually arrests these Republicans for these crimes it could actually be great for the world. But I won't hold my breath expecting a wince from Europe, it still requires a 2028 Dem to make it a priority.

[Karmadhi]

17 hours ago, Nivsch said:

If China openly threatened Taiwan with destruction for decades, while trying to develope nuclear weapon, wouldn't it be legitimate for Taiwan to attack China's nuclear program or try to collapse its regime?

Im neither Iranian nor middle eastern nor American so I got no horse on this race, as I am from Europe

To be I understand why Israel would want the Iranian government out but I do not understand why USA would get involved given Iran is so far away and their nuclear capabilities were already ruined last year

So the war makes 0 sense from an American POV and does make some sense from an Israeli POV

Although I feel if Israel stopped their expansion bs and recognized Palestine Iran would leave them alone and normalize relations

So to Israel war with Iran is still better than just recognizing Palestine and stopping their illegal expansion.

What do you think?

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

Although I feel if Israel stopped their expansion bs and recognized Palestine Iran would leave them alone and normalize relations

This might be true for Saudi Arabia

Iran's ideology, from what I see, goes deeper than that 😶‍🌫️

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

This might be true for Saudi Arabia

Iran's ideology, from what I see, goes deeper than that

Perhaps

Saudi is already an ally for Israel at this point, or at least not an enemy

I dont think Israel needs to worry about them

They unfortunately betrayed Palestine a while ago..

For Iran what reason would they have to hate Israel if they do not have Palestine as an alibi?

How would they sell it?

Edited Tuesday at 09:24 PM by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

For Iran what reason would they have to hate Israel if they do not have Palestine as an alibi?

How would they sell it?

Theological conflict.

In a smilar way the Iranian regime has conflict with the west as a whole when opposes western values, western dress codes, even western music is not allowed to be played in public in Iran. Israel is seen as a symbol of that.

Edited Tuesday at 10:28 PM by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

12 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Theological conflict.

Why Israel though specifically? You have many non Muslim nations in the world