Destiny foreign policy is very Western biased and Stage Orange

[Karmadhi]

Hello

I have done some investigations regarding Destiny's position in different foreign policy and geopolitical issues in the last 20 years or so

Although I agree with some of his positions like that Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine or opposing Trump's racist and shitty internal policies, in general I notice a very strong Western bias, mostly American akin to typical Stage Orange in his views

They do not seem to care about truth but simply what helps American establishment succeed

One good example is supporting the Libyan war, which was a total disaster for Libya and was done on very bad policy of installing democracy by force to a Stage Purple/Red society, purely to benefit the geopolitical goals of other countries

Another example is his double standards regarding Ukraine and Gaza where Israel gets far more of a blank check to do war crimes than Russia simply because "Israel is our ally and pro West" meanwhile Russia is not.

Saying also "Russia had no good reason to invade Ukraine" is too simplistic and totally ignores the survival agenda of Russia, something which Americans would never tolerate on their own. Supporting Ukraine fundamentally is logical but totally dismissing Russia's position shows huge lack of awareness of other countries survival agendas

I am posting this thread because I see that he is mentioned far too much, I do not even know why but he seems to be popular in this forum

I think he has a very strong Stage Orange when it comes to foreign policy

If you compare it to people like Bernie Sanders or Mehdi Hasan, you can tell his positions are more about defending his own society than trying to find truth

What do you guys think?

[Basman]

Why does a random streamer need to go into geopolitical detail when he is making an of overview of the actions he thinks should be taken? What more do you need to know than that invading Ukraine is bad? Leave the analysis to the country experts.

[Basman]

10 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

If you compare it to people like Bernie Sanders or Mehdi Hasan, you can tell his positions are more about defending his own society than trying to find truth

These people just have a different vision of how survival should be handled. Politics is survival. 

[Karmadhi]

6 hours ago, Basman said:

Why does a random streamer need to go into geopolitical detail when he is making an of overview of the actions he thinks should be taken? What more do you need to know than that invading Ukraine is bad? Leave the analysis to the country experts.

You can use the same argument for Jordan Peterson, he is a psychologist firstly

Same for Dave Smith who was a comedian

Destiny has a huge platform and he seems to be included often on this forum which is why I made a post about him

And just being right on Ukraine (even though with a super pro Western lense on assessing the situation), does not mean much

Issue is caring about ur pro Western biased views rather than Truth when you get millions of views is problematic.

[Karmadhi]

6 hours ago, Basman said:

These people just have a different vision of how survival should be handled. Politics is survival. 

Yes it is more Stage Green which to me is closer to Truth than Stage Orange

They can see devirly on every actor, including their own

That is the core difference

They may be unrealistic in terms of actual solutions but at least their assessment and analysis of the situation is far more objective in my opinion

Its just their proposed solutions are not realistic

When it comes to understand devirly and survival situations of different actors to me Stage Green (although not perfect ofc) is still better than Orange

Orange seems to basically say "USA good", "Russia, China, etc bad"

Too simplistic.

Edited March 15 by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

Yup. His Israel position is quite bad.

[Karmadhi]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yup. His Israel position is quite bad.

Its not just that to be honest

The reason his Israel position is how it is is because of his underlined "Western bias, especially American bias" 

He also seemed to be ok with overthrowing Gadaffi which to me was a massive massive mistake and although I agree with his stance on Ukraine, he totally fails to take into account the Russian survival agenda

Basically it is Western exceptionism, especially American

The idea that America is right in what they do and they are immune to mistakes

You can feel when he talks that his loyalty is to USA instead of truth

Which is why to me it is suprising why people give him so much time and attention on foreign policies matters when you have far better commentators

I will agree however that on internal policies within USA he seems much better and actually can factually challenge MAGA and all the White Christian supremacists that exist within USA

Edited March 15 by Karmadhi

[enchanted]

Destiny is worth listening to because he is a skilled debater. He demonstrates how to successfully articulate his point of view regardless of whether you personally agree with the view or not. Nobody has a 100% consistent or correct worldview. What you can learn from Destiny is how to be a good debator. He has examples of poor performance too. 

 

I encourage you to share ideas and debates that you find inspiring that we can all learn from.

[Leo Gura]

Yes, his worldivew is very pro-American.

He doesn't challenge American empire. He likes American hegemony and wants to maintain it.

That is a core limitation of his worldview and shows how much more growth he has to do.

Edited March 15 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

20 minutes ago, enchanted said:

Destiny is worth listening to because he is a skilled debater. He demonstrates how to successfully articulate his point of view regardless of whether you personally agree with the view or not. Nobody has a 100% consistent or correct worldview. What you can learn from Destiny is how to be a good debator. He has examples of poor performance too. 

Fair that is indeed true

Especially when it comes to fighting back MAGA lunatics

His internal policies discussions to be fair are pretty good

Edited March 15 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, his worldivew is very pro-American.

He doesn't challenge American empire. He likes American hegemony and wants to maintain it.

That is a core limitation of his worldview and shows how much more growth he has to do.

Leo what do you think about the recent war in Iran? It has been close to 2 weeks now

I remember you were in principle against it 2 years ago but given the violent crushing of the protests in Iran in January are you still against the intervention or see it as a necessary evil?

I have a lot of Iranian friends and I notice a big division amongs them, some are in favour and some are against

I am talking about non pro government Iranians here

[Leo Gura]

@Karmadhi I am against all US wars.

If the US starts a war, the US is wrong. The details are irrelevant.

Edited March 15 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I am against all US wars.

If the US starts a war, the US is wrong. The details are irrelevant.

So you are also against the NATO lead by USA intervention in Yugoslavia which stopped an ongoing ethnic cleansing campaign against the Kosovo Albanian population by the Serbian forces in 1998-1999?

If USA had intervened to stop the Rwandan Genocide or the Bosnian Genocide from day 1 would you be against it too?

Sometimes interventions save more lives than are lost from the actual intervention

I dont know the case for Iran though which is why I am conflicted by it especially given the USA president is a very selfish devil atm

[Shermaningeorgia]

Foreign policy is generally interpreted via standard laws and conventions and national views and biases. 

Destiny is an ass. But then he is right on Russia - the rationale for the invasion is weak. Putin called them Nazis, which is false. Putin said it was all once part of a greater Russia, so what? Things change and move on, and anachronistic hankerings back to the past are irrational. 

 

[Shermaningeorgia]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Karmadhi I am against all US wars.

If the US starts a war, the US is wrong. The details are irrelevant.

War is sometimes justified. Life isn't all peace, and part of humanity is dark.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

So you are also against the NATO lead by USA intervention in Yugoslavia which stopped an ongoing ethnic cleansing campaign against the Kosovo Albanian population by the Serbian forces in 1998-1999?

If USA had intervened to stop the Rwandan Genocide or the Bosnian Genocide from day 1 would you be against it too?

I don't consider those wars. Those are like strategic bombings.

Intervention in a genocide is okay by me. But that's not what the US does.

Edited March 15 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Shermaningeorgia said:

War is sometimes justified. Life isn't all peace, and part of humanity is dark.

If the US is invaded then I am okay with war. I said wars that US starts.

[Shermaningeorgia]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If the US is invaded then I am okay with war. I said wars that US starts.

A country might have good reason to invade another.  There can be a feasible case for a pre-emptive strike on a country leading to war.  You mentioned no wars the USA starts. it's never that black and white.

Edited March 15 by Shermaningeorgia

[enchanted]

@Karmadhi  Destiny made this video with an integralist who reached out to him (Stephanie Lepp). Lepp is trying to show a stage yellow perspective - both sides can be right. 

 

 

Edited March 15 by enchanted

[Shermaningeorgia]

5 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Yes it is more Stage Green which to me is closer to Truth than Stage Orange

They can see devirly on every actor, including their own

That is the core difference

They may be unrealistic in terms of actual solutions but at least their assessment and analysis of the situation is far more objective in my opinion

Its just their proposed solutions are not realistic

When it comes to understand devirly and survival situations of different actors to me Stage Green (although not perfect ofc) is still better than Orange

Orange seems to basically say "USA good", "Russia, China, etc bad"

Too simplistic.

 

Whilst there is a rules-based order, countries always undertake foreign policy based on their own needs, ideologies, and whims. The USA's foreign policy has always suited its own ideals and agendas. Entering both world wars was as such, as ws he Cold War. And misguided acts like Iraq. The USA entered both world wars as it saw Germany as a threat to its ideals and values in both. It saw the USSR a threat in the Cold War for the same reason. 

Desinty is American, so of course supports American values. 

How else then should countries enable foreign policy? It has to stem from their own needs and realities. Generally speaking, the USA has been pro-democracy and anti-oppression, which was the standard case for its Cold War stance. 

The point is, Destiny despite being an ass isn't being "too subjective". His views actually align with what foreign policy is - countries advancing their own agendas albeit within a rules-based order.