John Anthony vs Owen Cook meeting clavicular - perfect illustration of frame

[nerdspeak]

1 hour ago, Lyubov said:

Looksmaxxing is the logical outcome for western incels from a generation that socializes mostly online. Everything has gone hyper x or y because you have to operate from extremes and be functioning at a crazy high percentile to sleep with pretty women in the USA. There is massive hoeflation so now every guy rightfully sees that you have to maximize everything to get results. Tate was about money and now you have streamers about looks. Obviously there is a sustainable balance but it likely means living by that means a trade off in other areas you’ve been priced out of. 

This is not really true lol. Granted I’m a bit older but sleeping with US and Belgian women is pretty easy if you’re willing to stay within your friend group or, if not, endure a lot of rejection and nonsense. Girls will still eye-fuck and orbit you and it’s just a matter of reading the signals. And there’s less inhibition about being a slut than when I was young. Even online is not that hard if you’re in a big city with a decent gender ratio. It’s not as easy as Ukraine, but I’ve found New York, France, and Belgium all pretty easy, and while I’m somewhat good-looking, I’m also short. 
 

This weird internet stuff is more a reflection of people’s anxieties and projections than anything tangibly real about social reality. 

But I do think many zoomer guys lack the social skills to filter for girls predisposed to like them, and many zoomer girls are super anxious and lack social skills as well, so it is a bit harder for people under 30z 

Edited yesterday at 11:53 AM by nerdspeak

[SimpleGuy]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Naturals are better than PUAs. I know this first hand. I have professional PUA coach friends and one natural friend. The natural friend is way better.

One time I was talking about getting in state and he asked me, "What's state?" I explained it to him and he said, "Oh. I'm in state as soon as I get in my car." I said, You fucker!

You cannot beat a natural. That's because he is genetically wired for extreme extroversion. No introvert can be that good. These kind of extroverts are also usually quite good-looking. So they got all the cards stacked in their favor. It is a perfect storm of pussy magnetism.

Gaming with my natural friend is so fun. It's incredible. It's just like a party around him. And he knows nothing about pickup theory. It's all just intuitive. He could sell satanism to a nun.

But then he struggles in other areas of life. So it's all trade-offs. Extroverts got plenty of other problems.

As an extrovert I can speak for this. Extroverts are overall good in relationships with people, usually quite decent in wealth domain, but quite poor contemplating and spiritual work.

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, nerdspeak said:

This is not really true lol. Granted I’m a bit older but sleeping with US and Belgian women is pretty easy if you’re willing to stay within your friend group or, if not, endure a lot of rejection and nonsense. Girls will still eye-fuck and orbit you and it’s just a matter of reading the signals. And there’s less inhibition about being a slut than when I was young. Even online is not that hard if you’re in a big city with a decent gender ratio. It’s not as easy as Ukraine, but I’ve found New York, France, and Belgium all pretty easy, and while I’m somewhat good-looking, I’m also short. 
 

This weird internet stuff is more a reflection of people’s anxieties and projections than anything tangibly real about social reality. 

But I do think many zoomer guys lack the social skills to filter for girls predisposed to like them, and many zoomer girls are super anxious and lack social skills as well, so it is a bit harder for people under 30z 

Well clearly it’s not easy if like half of men are reporting not having sex in the last year. You just said it yourself that you consider yourself pretty decent. I’m talking broadly speaking accounting for every guy and every foundation. Most guys can’t pull and it is difficult for most guys. If you’re not established in a decent city then chances are you ain’t getting any action of course. You basically said “I’m pretty well off so it’s easy lol.” Nah dude most guys today are awful with women an a growing percentage don’t even go outside or talk to them. The guys getting no play of course or black pilling it or taking it to extremes like I said. 

Edited yesterday at 12:57 PM by Lyubov

[nerdspeak]

7 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Well clearly it’s not easy if like half of men are reporting not having sex in the last year. You just said it yourself that you consider yourself pretty decent. I’m talking broadly speaking accounting for every guy and every foundation. Most guys can’t pull and it is difficult for most guys. If you’re not established in a decent city then chances are you ain’t getting any action of course. You basically said “I’m pretty well off so it’s easy lol.” Nah dude most guys today are awful with women an a growing percentage don’t even go outside or talk to them. 

I’m under 5’8”, so I can’t be more than a 6 or a 7. But this just means more filtering and approaches are needed. 

The shut-ins you refer to need to go touch grass and do more things with their life than doom-scroll through blackpill content. And maybe lower their standards a bit. If you’re an unemployed shut-in with below-average looks, maybe you should adjust your expectations about how hot a woman you can expect to land. The fact that such a guy can’t date a hot girl is not hoeflation, it’s just common sense. 

I agree the economic situation for people in their late teens and early 20s is pretty difficult atm. But the problem is not “hoeflation,” that’s a silly argument. Women are economically  screwed too, and you could say there’s more pressure on men to be economically successful, but that depends on the values of the people you put yourself around. 

Edited yesterday at 01:05 PM by nerdspeak

[cle103]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Naturals are better than PUAs. I know this first hand. I have professional PUA coach friends and one natural friend. The natural friend is way better.

I once went to a concert with a friend, initially we got to the wrong venue cause they had moved it. This guy waved us down from 100 yards away "Hey you guys going to X, we just ordered an Uber". So we went with him and his friend. The whole drive he told crazy stories like how he just lost his drivers license for doing coke or how he partied with some celebrity. When we arrived at the venue he was talking to a couple of girls within 5 seconds, literally. Then the bouncers, then the cashier, ... When I met him at the bar later he was with another girl who was ehm very into him.

He operated at a completely different level than any PUA I know. 

He also was married with kids lol. 

Edited 18 hours ago by cle103

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, cle103 said:

I once went to a concert with a friend, initially we got to the wrong venue cause they had moved it. This guy waved us down from 100 yards away "Hey you guys going to X, we just ordered an Uber". So we went with him and his friend. The whole drive he told crazy stories like how he just lost his drivers license for doing coke or how he partied with some celebrity. When we arrived at the venue he was talking to a couple of girls within 5 seconds, literally. Then the bouncers, then the cashier, ... When I met him at the bar later he was with another girl who was ehm very into him.

He operated at a completely different level than any PUA I know. 

He also was married with kids lol. 

Yes, that is extreme extroversion.

But I could never live like that. I would rather be dead. To me, that is how total fools live. They talk without thinking.

Edited 17 hours ago by Leo Gura

[cle103]

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They talk without thinking.

Yup, fuck without thinking as well haha

[Miguel1]

2 hours ago, cle103 said:

I once went to a concert with a friend, initially we got to the wrong venue cause they had moved it. This guy waved us down from 100 yards away "Hey you guys going to X, we just ordered an Uber". So we went with him and his friend. The whole drive he told crazy stories like how he just lost his drivers license for doing coke or how he partied with some celebrity. When we arrived at the venue he was talking to a couple of girls within 5 seconds, literally. Then the bouncers, then the cashier, ... When I met him at the bar later he was with another girl who was ehm very into him.

He operated at a completely different level than any PUA I know. 

He also was married with kids lol. 

Lol, me at my peak social mood. Ask the few guys here who has gone out clubbing with me hah.

I am not often in this mood tho, especially when going out solo. Or since I kinda know everyone in my city, being too hyper is counter productive. I just often chill, and let them come to me.

I’m kinda a mini celebrity here.

[Terell Kirby]

Hmm . It’s not like extroverts aren’t capable of deep thought or existential thinking- they just spend less time engaged in those pursuits

Edited 15 hours ago by Terell Kirby

[Zen LaCroix]

On 1/14/2026 at 6:56 PM, Leo Gura said:

Naturals are better than PUAs. I know this first hand. I have professional PUA coach friends and one natural friend. The natural friend is way better.

One time I was talking about getting in state and he asked me, "What's state?" I explained it to him and he said, "Oh. I'm in state as soon as I get in my car." I said, You fucker!

You cannot beat a natural. That's because he is genetically wired for extreme extroversion. No introvert can be that good. These kind of extroverts are also usually quite good-looking. So they got all the cards stacked in their favor. It is a perfect storm of pussy magnetism.

Gaming with my natural friend is so fun. It's incredible. It's just like a party around him. And he knows nothing about pickup theory. It's all just intuitive. He could sell satanism to a nun.

But then he struggles in other areas of life. So it's all trade-offs. Extroverts got plenty of other problems.

What are these struggles that extreme extroverts have?

Edited 13 hours ago by Zen LaCroix

[Hafiz]

Do a bit of Molly and you’ll understand what extreme extroversion is like.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Hafiz said:

Do a bit of Molly and you’ll understand what extreme extroversion is like.

That's what alcohol is for.

Alcohol is liquid extroversion. The reason most normies don't learn game is simply because they use alcohol instead.

Edited 11 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Liquid courage is the old adage

[Leo Gura]

BTW, John used a lot of alcohol to game back when he was in Vegas, so that is a major reason I never respected his game. I respect Owen a lot for promoting sober game. Getting drunk is not game, any fool can do that.

The hardest part of game is getting the state and verbals while stone cold sober from a day of logical work. That takes serious skill.

You will notice that extroverts and naturals don't work logical jobs, they work highly social jobs like sales. I'd like to see an extrovert do 8hrs of science before going out to game. See how that goes.

Edited 6 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Zenterus]

9 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

Hmm . It’s not like extroverts aren’t capable of deep thought or existential thinking- they just spend less time engaged in those pursuits

They are, but its rare.

My best friend is very good looking and a complete natural with women. Never had issues attracting them in his life from a young age. He respects the fact that I learned game the way I did and we often do discuss the various PUA concepts and mechanics but to him it is all unconscious (him being at the 1% of good looks doesnt hurt either).

He also has an extensive history of using psychedelics and other mind altering substances. Like, to a high degree. I've done some stuff too, but never to the level that he had and definitely not recreationally. Every time I would take a substance, I would learn something deeper about myself and I would always share that with him but he never shared any deeper insights with me in return despite all his experiences.

One day, out of curiosity, I asked him if he ever even had a deep insight from a psychedelic or other substance. He sat there for a few seconds and said, "Honestly dude.. no."

Blew my mind. 

Can extroverted naturals have deep insights? Yes. Is it the norm? Hell no. I've seen that consistently in my life.

Not to say they're dumb. They're smart in different ways. Just not the way introverted types tend to be.

Edited 5 hours ago by Zenterus

[CosmicExplorer]

8 hours ago, Hafiz said:

Do a bit of Molly and you’ll understand what extreme extroversion is like

I was once on very high dose of pure molly (crystal) + moderately drunk and yet still unable to capitalise on a girl grinding on my dick in a club, it obviously makes you more extraverted but it's not some magic pill, it can still not be enough. High dose of  benzos or even alcohol is probably better if you need lowering inhibitions, getting more extraverted 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Zenterus said:

They are, but its rare.

My best friend is very good looking and a complete natural with women. Never had issues attracting them in his life from a young age. He respects the fact that I learned game the way I did and we often do discuss the various PUA concepts and mechanics but to him it is all unconscious (him being at the 1% of good looks doesnt hurt either).

He also has an extensive history of using psychedelics and other mind altering substances. Like, to a high degree. I've done some stuff too, but never to the level that he had and definitely not recreationally. Every time I would take a substance, I would learn something deeper about myself and I would always share that with him but he never shared any deeper insights with me in return despite all his experiences.

One day, out of curiosity, I asked him if he ever even had a deep insight from a psychedelic or other substance. He sat there for a few seconds and said, "Honestly dude.. no."

Blew my mind. 

Can extroverted naturals have deep insights? Yes. Is it the norm? Hell no. I've seen that consistently in my life.

Not to say they're dumb. They're smart in different ways. Just not the way introverted types tend to be.

Bingo!

[nerdspeak]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

BTW, John used a lot of alcohol to game back when he was in Vegas, so that is a major reason I never respected his game. I respect Owen a lot for promoting sober game. Getting drunk is not game, any fool can do that.

The hardest part of game is getting the state and verbals while stone cold sober from a day of logical work. That takes serious skill.

You will notice that extroverts and naturals don't work logical jobs, they work highly social jobs like sales. I'd like to see an extrovert do 8hrs of science before going out to game. See how that goes.

Surprisingly a lot of scientists are pretty sociable and charismatic, and can switch between abstract thinking and vibing quite easily. Certainly not all, but 1/5 or so. Think of Huberman as a cliche example. 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, nerdspeak said:

Surprisingly a lot of scientists are pretty sociable and charismatic

I dispute this. You are cherrypicking heavily.

Calling Huberman a scientist is a stretch. He is a celebrity influencer.

STEM guys struggle to get laid, struggle with socializing -- because they are borderline autistic. Of course some are sociable, like Richard Feynman. Hard science and socializing don't mix.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[nerdspeak]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I dispute this. You are cherrypicking heavily.

Calling Huberman a scientist is a stretch. He is a celebrity influencer.

STEM guys struggle to get laid, struggle with socializing -- because they are borderline autistic. Of course some are sociable, like Richard Feynman. Hard science and socializing don't mix.

I acknowledged he was a cliche, but chose him as an example everyone would know. That said, you can’t be a research professor at Stanford without being a scientist, although he seems to devote a lot of l energy to his influencer career now.

A lot of academia is networking and the ability to influence important people at conferences. The most successful ones tend to have at least reasonable social skills.