Japanese Work Culture Is Sick

[Butters]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

If feel like shown in the best light they create with friends in a group where the boundaries between me and you, work and play, are more integrated and less brite-line individualist distinct like we do in the U.S.  They're socializing and communing throughout the day; not just an individualist assembly line of individual cogs like we imagine.

I love that, do you have some source for the cultural insights? I grew up with Japanese people, they're very warm and kind but I've never been to Japan (yet). 

But sadly what I saw in those videos doesn't look like collectivism but individualism and people being worked to death, though it's always in Tokyo (I think?) and of course wouldn't apply to everyone in Japan. 

[Schizophonia]

23 minutes ago, Butters said:

I don't think so. I saw another video where a guy explains the work culture. There's lots of strange customs, rules and seniority stuff going on. Said they're not productive at all. 

The production curve of wealth produced per hour worked is logarithmic; it stagnates from a certain point, yes, but continues to increase, and that is important.

Even things that seem at first glance unrelated to work itself, like drinking with the boss, have materialistic origins; because otherwise why would it be different in other countries? And what fundamentally distinguishes Japan from the rest of the world if not material conditions?
Why a rigid hierarchy? Why go out in groups after work? Why consume so much alcohol? Why a GABAergic product like alcohol when cannabis cultivation already existed more than 4,000 years ago?
Why, why, why?

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Butters]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

The production curve of wealth produced per hour worked is logarithmic; it stagnates from a certain point, yes, but continues to increase, and that is important.

Well, if those companies would try 6-hour workdays instead of 12, then we can compare. Lots of data shows that 4-week days can be more productive than 5 etc. I doubt working people to death serves any purpose. 

[Leo Gura]

Don't travel to big cities. Travel to natural areas.

The point of travel is to see the beauty of the Earth, not the hives of the two-legged zombies who shamble upon it.

Edited 10 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Schizophonia]

38 minutes ago, Butters said:

Well, if those companies would try 6-hour workdays instead of 12, then we can compare. Lots of data shows that 4-week days can be more productive than 5 etc. I doubt working people to death serves any purpose. 

No; from a macroeconomic point of view statistically your daily productivity will probably be similar or slightly be lower in the long run if you work 5 days instead of 4 perhaps due to a little more fatigue on average, work accidents etc; but the extra day of work will in fine increase the total amount of wealth you will generate in a week. 

Japanese companies are capitalists ahah they are there to build a profile; they are experienced and have data analysts so if it was not profitable they would fire their employees and/or hire them for a shorter time.

Edited 10 hours ago by Schizophonia

[OBEler]

I was often in Japan. They envy our working lifestyle.

[Leo Gura]

Unpaid overtime is how the capitalist system milks workers. American companies do it too. They do it because to them it is free profit. And all they care about is profits.

The one upside in Japan is that Japanese companies hire employees for life. So there is loyalty from the company to the employee. And the Japanese have a law that forces companies to exhaust all possible options before laying off employees. Very different from American corporate culture.

But the downside is that Japanese corporations treat you like their slave.

Edited 11 hours ago by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura these companies have special tactics that you are getting out of the company by your own choice. They will isolate you, force you to do useless tasks the whole day until you quit by yourself.

I love Japan and was there living. But these overworking issues are real and they are brutal.

 

[enzyme]

It wouldn't be as bad if they at least had some decent R&R.  Their population is currently like an upside down pyramid; everybody's working and not going out much.  I think their government are lowkey shitting themselves that not enough of their young population are mingling and having sex with each other.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, OBEler said:

But these overworking issues are real and they are brutal.

That's the slave part.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Cannot comment on all the links, docs. Only my personal families report: it is shit.

Indentured servitude.

[Joseph Maynor]

Don't companies like Google try to mimic this by providing more of a holistic and community-oriented campus where work and life are sort of blurred? 

[Schizophonia]

50 minutes ago, enzyme said:

that not enough of their young population are mingling and having sex with each other.

The Japanese population may multiply, but their resources and the rest of the world's envy for Toyotas and Manga isn't as elastic; these are the essential resources that will allow them to build up cash reserves and capital, and ultimately to obtain goods and services.

If the population increases in the future, they will have to work even harder to remain competitive among themselves to share the art of the "Japan" pie and by extension on a macro scale to share the "world" pie and add it in the "Japan" one, to have the most positive trade balance possible; the fewer resources your country has.

If the population decreases, Japan will technically produce fewer goods leading to economic decline and all the problems that come with, but at the same time they can't have children because it's too expensive/time-consuming, and this will only become more of an issue the more they have; unless a miracle happens and they discover something that boosts productivity again like nuclear fusion or i don't know what.

Currently the balance is naturally shifting towards a significant decline in the population.

Edited 10 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Joseph Maynor]

Apple in its early days reminds me of Japan for some reason.  Everyone is a family working together.

[Butters]

19 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Apple in its early days reminds me of Japan for some reason.  Everyone is a family working together.

Jobs was Green/Orange while these old-school Japanese work culture is Blue. 

[TimStr]

Japanese work mentality leads to some of the most exceptional products on the world. Insane, artistic kind of quality!

In japan there is a word for hard working craftsmen, called "shokunin". They work exceptionally hard to create the best stuff they can.

Here are some great examples: 
https://www.stefanimhoff.de/shokunin/

BUT: Those masters are usually exceptionally stubborn, working only for the sake of elevating their craft and definately not for the money! This is the difference and this is interesting because its a very clear example how hard work leads to completely different results depending on weather it's approached by a conformist mind or by an authentic mind.

It's clear to me, that the value of hard work can easily get corrupted by conformity and how this gets exploited by capitalism.

Edited 4 hours ago by TimStr

[Joseph Maynor]

7 hours ago, Butters said:

Jobs was Green/Orange while these old-school Japanese work culture is Blue. 

Good point.  That's a significant difference.

[Nemra]

Lately, I watched the above documentary about their prison, and it is mental.

Edited 1 hour ago by Nemra

[Schizophonia]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't travel to big cities. Travel to natural areas.

The point of travel is to see the beauty of the Earth, not the hives of the two-legged zombies who shamble upon it.

Do you do activities
The vacation spots or places you choose to live depend a lot on the activities you want to do.

It's also cool to be accompanied, even without interactions it lifts the mood; there are people with high IQ and who are friendly everywhere.

Edited 1 minute ago by Schizophonia