Capatilism is Objectively Superior to any other form of Governace.

[Schizophonia]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Chinese soicety is producing some amazing results.

Be careful acting so superior, or they will one day soon own your ass.

Thankfully, they number over a billion and possess vast resources.

And it's a semi-planned economy.

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

It doesn't need to be through employment. Nor is complex industrialization necessary for humanity.

Indeed we can go back to the Paleolithic era.

 

Top super

Edited 9 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Elliott]

17 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Indeed we can go back to the Paleolithic era.

 

Top super

We dont need anything from  complex industrialization that would require employment. Most big things that require employment are only necessary for corporatization itself. Think skyscrapers or mass transit, they're primarily for an employment society and only used otherwise just because they already exist.

 

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Elliott

[Husseinisdoingfine]

3 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I disagree. I think Tito in Yugoslavia provided a better alternative.

Yugoslavia was the ideal example of Socialism as it had a unique emphasis on workers' self management. 

See this paper below:

https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdf/10.1257/jep.5.4.187

And this video:

 

 

 

If socialism simply doesn't work, then how do you explain this?

[Hafiz]

This is what unfettered late stage capitalism gets you:

 

https://apnews.com/article/netflix-warner-acquisition-studio-hbo-streaming-f4884402cadfd07a99af0c8e4353bd83

 

 

[Elliott]

3 minutes ago, Hafiz said:

This is what unfettered late stage capitalism gets you:

 

https://apnews.com/article/netflix-warner-acquisition-studio-hbo-streaming-f4884402cadfd07a99af0c8e4353bd83

 

 

Absolutely horrifying

[Daniel Balan]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Chinese soicety is producing some amazing results.

Be careful acting so superior, or they will one day soon own your ass.

Then why on earth are you against Trump turning America into a dictatorship? Why are you against Putin and fascist Russia? Why do you write endless posts on your blog about politics if you think a one party total dictatorship is the solution? 

I am fully respectful toward the Chinese people and their technological development and the fact that they developed so spectacularly for the last 50 years. That development was in spite of the total dictatorship not because of it. When the Chinese society will have liberal democracy their development and prosperity will skyrocket beacuse they are extrmely hard working and disciplined and they don't fuck aroud like western lazy hedonists and because a liberal democracy is the perfect environment for business and innovation. 

100% they do good things like how they teach their youth rigor, discipline and hardwork, the way they structure their economy is also a thing the west can totally learn from. 

But don't come here and tell me that I should vote for pro nationalization, pro Russian and Chinese candidates that want to export the dictatorship in China here in the west. 

Your work could not even exist in China, you would be tortured in a prison cell for Actualized.org, they would label you a foreign agent traitor that is against the national interest and that has sold out his soul to globalist elites. That would be you in China.

Edited 6 hours ago by Daniel Balan

[Elliott]

You guys are oversimplifying structures and their relationship with cultures. Liberal democracy would not likely produce better production results in China, nor would Chinese totalitarianism work the same way in a different culture.

[Daniel Balan]

58 minutes ago, Elliott said:

You guys are oversimplifying structures and their relationship with cultures. Liberal democracy would not likely produce better production results in China, nor would Chinese totalitarianism work the same way in a different culture.

Because liberal democracy doesn't treat its citizens as literal slaves. In a liberal democracy you are also allowed to enjoy individuality and free time. In China you must work as a machine non stop. If you refuse to do so, you are labeled a traitor of the nation. 

I'd rather jump off a clif than to be the disposable robot that must work non stop, only for the communist elite to show off to the world how great dictatorship is.

[zazen]

Still haven’t seen OP rebuttal any arguments - just agreed with Leo saying the current system is the best so far. Despite my comment on the previous page going into how and why this particular kind of capitalism has in emerged in the West - including the reason for its sacredness as a value which has become synonymous with freedom.

“Capitalism” isn’t the least bad system - it was and is the least bad system for a specific civilization (Westwern) escaping a specific problem (Medieval fuedalism). It’s a mistake to assume this as universal and have a binary view of governing systems that is blind to history.

Other societies had capitalism in the sense they had commerce that allowed for private gain and accumulation but that the excesses of which were disciplined by a higher authority instead of making it the apex value ie Capital-ism - a mutant child of commerce.

Westerncentric analysis thinks the West is the reference point of development with everyone else developing on and along their timeline - trailing behind them of course. Historical amnesia and Spiral dynamic supremacy.

In 2008 capitalism privatized the gains and socialized the losses. When the system based upon the primacy of capital collpased it wasn’t the “free market” that saved the day but state power (banker bailouts) and ironically a so called communist state (China) that disciplines the excesses of capital instead of elevating it into God tier status - that stabilized the global financial system by buying US debt.

Be prepared to have your theories and worldviews challenged in the coming decades as the global order shifts.

Haters gonna hate, comrade Zazen be like:

 

Edited 5 hours ago by zazen

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, zazen said:

 

“Capitalism” isn’t the least bad system - it was and is the least bad system for a specific civilization (Westwern) escaping a specific problem (Medieval fuedalism). It’s a mistake to assume this as universal and have a binary view of governing systems that is blind to history.

 

 

 

 

In 2008 capitalism privatized the gains and socialized the losses. When the system based upon the primacy of capital collpased it wasn’t the “free market” that saved the day but state power (banker bailouts) and ironically a so called communist state (China) that disciplines the excesses of capital instead of elevating it into God tier status - that stabilized the global financial system by buying US debt.

 

Now Google "JP Morgan bailing out the united states of America". For your historical amnesia.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Daniel Balan said:

Then why on earth are you against Trump turning America into a dictatorship?

I am talking about their economic system.

It's called nuance.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Kid A]

3 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Yugoslavia was the ideal example of Socialism as it had a unique emphasis on workers' self management. 

See this paper below:

https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdf/10.1257/jep.5.4.187

And this video:

 

 

 

If socialism simply doesn't work, then how do you explain this?

I have long wondered why Yugoslavia isn’t focused on more in discussions like this. To me, it’s an obvious contradiction of the claim that socialism/communism has always failed. The war didn’t change that.

[BlueOak]

12 hours ago, Elliott said:

QUIT SIDESTEPPING

 

We're talking about the cold war!

I'm afraid, Elliot, you 

1, Don't get to dictate the conversation. Especially when you didn't start the topic which is:
Capitalism is objectively superior to any other form of governance.

If you want to spin off a thread specifically on the cold war i'll debate you all day. Start one.

2, Dictate how others reply to you.
3, Brought Bernie Sanders and the western view into this not me. So you get to make points of reference and I don't is that it? Convenient eh.
4, Decided to focus on expansion when I never mentioned it. Shall I reply with. Stop addings Elliot, its bad. Or is that in fact the point of a conversation? To link things together, make connections and relevant points?
 

How can I possibly answer you, when you can bring the west into it and Bernie Sanders and I cannot reply. Absurd.

Edited 3 hours ago by BlueOak

[Husseinisdoingfine]

28 minutes ago, Kid A said:

I have long wondered why Yugoslavia isn’t focused on more in discussions like this. To me, it’s an obvious contradiction of the claim that socialism/communism has always failed. 

T H A N K      Y O U

[Leo Gura]

Yugoslavia? Does that even exist?

No. WTF are you talking about?

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Schizophonia]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yugoslavia? Does that even exist?

No. WTF are you talking about?

It disappeared because of ethnic and nationalist conflicts.

A bit like Austria-Hungary, the USSR, or the British Empire.

[Daniel Balan]

35 minutes ago, Kid A said:

I have long wondered why Yugoslavia isn’t focused on more in discussions like this. To me, it’s an obvious contradiction of the claim that socialism/communism has always failed. The war didn’t change that.

Yugoslavia was a bastion of freedom and capitalism compared to what shenanigans were happening in the USSR and its satellites.

A lot of my relatives went to work in Yugoslavia once the communism fell here, Yugoslavia had something totally different in terms of socialism/communism than the USSR and its satellites. We looked towards Yugoslavia the same way we looked towards West Germany! All the people that left the country illegaly during the communist period did so only via Yugoslavia. The people near Serbia could also listen to foreign radio Free Europe and even catch sattelite signal to watch Yugoslavian television that was much more liberal than state propaganda of the communist party that we had at home.

 

[AerisVahnEphelia]

2 hours ago, Daniel Balan said:

Then why on earth are you against Trump turning America into a dictatorship? Why are you against Putin and fascist Russia? Why do you write endless posts on your blog about politics if you think a one party total dictatorship is the solution? 

I am fully respectful toward the Chinese people and their technological development and the fact that they developed so spectacularly for the last 50 years. That development was in spite of the total dictatorship not because of it. When the Chinese society will have liberal democracy their development and prosperity will skyrocket beacuse they are extrmely hard working and disciplined and they don't fuck aroud like western lazy hedonists and because a liberal democracy is the perfect environment for business and innovation. 

100% they do good things like how they teach their youth rigor, discipline and hardwork, the way they structure their economy is also a thing the west can totally learn from. 

But don't come here and tell me that I should vote for pro nationalization, pro Russian and Chinese candidates that want to export the dictatorship in China here in the west. 

Your work could not even exist in China, you would be tortured in a prison cell for Actualized.org, they would label you a foreign agent traitor that is against the national interest and that has sold out his soul to globalist elites. That would be you in China.

the more liberal china become the more "liberal" they are turning.
it's already happening, you under estimate framing like spiral dynamic.
 

[Kid A]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yugoslavia? Does that even exist?

No. WTF are you talking about?

Everything that ceases to exist is a failure?