Capatilism is Objectively Superior to any other form of Governace.

[Schizophonia]

22 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

This has to be wrong, I know countless of people who grew up with me in my village, that were dirt poor when they were young,

Obviously in 10/20 years the infrastructure of a city can evolve a lot; there was barely an internet 20 years ago; technologies, means of production in general and by extension the creation of wealth have evolved enormously.

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and now they have successful businesses that they have built across decades. People who were begging me for a cigarette when we were 15 years old, now have successful construction businesses.

You don't need a "business" to produce and distribute things; it's just a social organization, and a social organization that amplifies inequalities.

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I am happy for them, they endured sleepless nights, went in Germany to work in agriculture in grueling conditions, they saved all the money, ate the cheapest food available , slept 10 people in the same room etc and now have opened their businesses here back home!

Not only is it hypocritical to talk about precarious working conditions as if they were good and as if you were ready to do the same, but it also has nothing to do with capitalism or communism.

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They didn't cry and begged for the government to give them free stuff.

That’s not communism.

In communism there is no unemployment because there is no labor market; and most Marxist thinkers agree that everyone must work and be beneficial to the community; communism is not about giving money for doing nothing, that would be stupid.

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They rolled up their sleeves and endured work! That's why I hate socialism, all the nobodies and losers from my village are regreting the communist dictatorship from the 20th century, while the winners are working non stop and love capitalism.

The goal of communism is precisely to guarantee good living conditions for those who work rather than for those who are lucky enough to be well-positioned.

And the Ceaușescu regime is not “the communism”; it was a communist-inspired dictatorship like all the regimes installed, influenced by the USSR or China.

Edited 1 hour ago by Schizophonia

[AerisVahnEphelia]

49 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

Thats exactly what capitalism is, lol! You can't become sucessful in capitalism by mistake, only the best of the best achieve it. The problem with capitalism is that the winner takes it all, while the losers fight for scraps! A more conscious capitalism will allow the winner to win, but will also make sure that the winner doesn't win it all, so that the losers will also have plenty of resources to share amongst themselves.

capitalism is not a meritocacy.

where is the merit in being born with parents hoarding gold mines ? where is your work and contributions ? how did you merit it ?

inheritance can't exist in a meritocratic system.
 
 

[Elliott]

Capitalism just means private ownership. 

 

You don't have to buy from musk, bezos, gates, ..... anyone, regardless of how much money they accumulate. If a few people accumulate all the money, the money becomes worthless.

[Elliott]

2 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

capitalism is not a meritocacy.

where is the merit in being born with parents hoarding gold mines ? where is your work and contributions ? how did you merit it ?

inheritance can't exist in a meritocratic system.
 
 

Your parents found and built the gold mines..... merit, your parents.

[Daniel Balan]

@Schizophonia Bro, the Ceaușescu regime was basically North Korea of Europe, you don't get any more unhinged socialism/communism than that. 

Regarding that communism gives employment to everyone, yea, our dictator created 1000's of oversized factories all across the country, with 10x more the personnel of a western counterpart factory. It went for a couple of decades, until it all came crashing down because everything was centrally planned on 5 year production plans. In todays money the dictator wasted close to 70 billion euros adjusted for inflation in 2025 for factories of heavy industry based on autarkic economic principles so that everyone has a employment. 

Capitalist factories were built on supply and demand, not artificial qotas of production that were centrally planed by the communist party. Once the COMECON collapsed together with the USSR, all the factories that the dictator built turned to rubble. Because they weren't based on economic reality, rather they were based on ideological fantasy and falsehood.

The people who were wealthy before communism, dragged the whole communist regime on their backs with their labour and expertise, while the losers before communism, only fucked around and worked just for the day to pass while being dead weight that the hard working and the smart must carry as a burden. 

And regarding myself, I worked too in grueling conditions in Germany and slept in a horse shed together with other 20 people because we agreed we need to save money and we can't afford to pay rent. I came home and I bought myself my first car and renovated my house etc. I didn't expect the government to take care of me like I am a bitch. The reason I didn't start a business is because I am stupid and I don't have the mental fortitude to withstand the immense pressure of runnin a business, I prefered to work a normal job instead. But I didn't become bitter and envious of the successful people who were capable enough to build a business. Only the losers that want communism back bad-mouth the people who become successful. I will never be such a person. I respect and applaud the ones who earned their success and I loathe those who expect the government to give them land, housing and other stuff that the government must steal from the worthy and successful and then to give those goods to some total loser whose biggest accomplishment in life is bad-mouthing those who built their own success.

[Daniel Balan]

9 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

capitalism is not a meritocacy.

where is the merit in being born with parents hoarding gold mines ? where is your work and contributions ? how did you merit it ?

inheritance can't exist in a meritocratic system.
 
 

The parents and grandparents of Musk were the ones who created all the wealth, they provided immense value to society for 200 years until they were able to build a gold mine. And of course it is perfectly normal for their grand son or son to inherit the labour of a family that worked for several centuries to build that wealth. It is the grandparents&parents of Musk who provided value for society for several centuries, while your grandparents spent all their money on booze and bullshit, thats why Musk inherited a gold mine and you inherited shit! Blame your grandparents for being useless, not someone's grandparents for providing value for society. 

All you commies and socialists must wake the fuck up from your slumber, you don't deserve shit in this world unless you work for it. Survival ain't a fairy tale that the government must hand to you on a silver platter. Even the very food you eat takes enormous effort to create, you can't expect to take it for free from someone who worked day and night to produce it while you sat on your ass doing nothing. 

Man I loathe and abhor communism and socialism so much.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

12 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

The parents and grandparents of Musk were the ones who created all the wealth, they provided immense value to society for 200 years until they were able to build a gold mine. And of course it is perfectly normal for their grand son or son to inherit the labour of a family that worked for several centuries to build that wealth. It is the grandparents&parents of Musk who provided value for society for several centuries, while your grandparents spent all their money on booze and bullshit, thats why Musk inherited a gold mine and you inherited shit! Blame your grandparents for being useless, not someone's grandparents for providing value for society. 

All you commies and socialists must wake the fuck up from your slumber, you don't deserve shit in this world unless you work for it. Survival ain't a fairy tale that the government must hand to you on a silver platter. Even the very food you eat takes enormous effort to create, you can't expect to take it for free from someone who worked day and night to produce it while you sat on your ass doing nothing. 

Man I loathe and abhor communism and socialism so much.

It's not about me, it's about making society efficient.

We have a terrible allocation of resources that isn't distributed to the most deserving people.

People would work harder and contribute more if they actually received greater rewards. ( which they would get if the money from un deserved inheritance was pooled back in a common pool for the ones who create values )

No one wants to play Monopoly when all the houses are hoarded and every move you make sends you to jail.

Communism doesn't exist in practice. People will always ally with whatever forces allow them to flip the chessboard that is screwing them over.

I want to play the infinite game where everyone can participate, everyone can win if they play fairly, and even if they don't win, they still benefit from the winners who create more wealth in the shared game.

Which is basically the form of capitalism I advocate for.

Right now we have nepotistic asset renting feudal bullshit that brands itself as meritocratic capitalism.

Edited 56 minutes ago by AerisVahnEphelia

[Daniel Balan]

7 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

It's not about me, it's about making society efficient.

We have a terrible allocation of resources that isn't distributed to the most deserving people.

People would work harder and contribute more if they actually received greater rewards. ( which they would get if the money from un deserved inheritance was pooled back in a common pool for the ones who create values )

No one wants to play Monopoly when all the houses are hoarded and every move you make sends you to jail.

Communism doesn't exist in practice. People will always ally with whatever forces allow them to flip the chessboard that is screwing them over.

I want to play the infinite game where everyone can participate, everyone can win if they play fairly, and even if they don't win, they still benefit from the winners who create more wealth in the shared game.

Which is basically the form of capitalism I advocate for.

Right now we have nepotistic asset renting feudal bullshit that brands itself as meritocratic capitalism.

Of course! By all means I am also an advocate to fine tune capitalism! Does Musk deserve to be the richest man on the planet? Absolutely! But if he earns 50 billion a year, is that fair? No! He could earn 10 bilion while everyone of his employes earn 100 million each. The CEO should be the richest, but just by 10 times more than the employee, not by 1000 times more rich. 

 

Edited 49 minutes ago by Daniel Balan

[Schizophonia]

47 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

@Schizophonia Bro, the Ceaușescu regime was basically North Korea of Europe, you don't get any more unhinged socialism/communism than that. 

 

But this isn't unique to communism.
The Third Reich was totalitarian and it was a market economy.

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Regarding that communism gives employment to everyone, yea, our dictator created 1000's of oversized factories all across the country, with 10x more the personnel of a western counterpart factory. It went for a couple of decades, until it all came crashing down because everything was centrally planned on 5 year production plans. In todays money the dictator wasted close to 70 billion euros adjusted for inflation in 2025 for factories of heavy industry based on autarkic economic principles so that everyone has a employment. 

Yes, but once again, being under a mad dictator and having an autarkic economy is not unique to communism.

What's wrong with building factories as long as they're productive? I don't know Romania, but even under Stalin, who was a horrible dictator, the population ultimately increased enormously and the USSR became an industrial superpower.

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Capitalist factories were built on supply and demand, not artificial qotas of production that were centrally planed by the communist party.

There is no difference at all

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Once the COMECON collapsed together with the USSR, all the factories that the dictator built turned to rubble. Because they weren't based on economic reality, rather they were based on ideological fantasy and falsehood.

That doesn't mean anything; either these factories were active and producing goods, or they weren't.

They closed because the economic and social structures and trade with other countries changed drastically and suddenly with the collapse of the Soviet bloc; the same thing happened, only worse, in Russia.

And once again Romania is like one of the worst possible communist experiments.

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The people who were wealthy before communism, dragged the whole communist regime on their backs with their labour and expertise, while the losers before communism, only fucked around and worked just for the day to pass while being dead weight that the hard working and the smart must carry as a burden. 

And regarding myself, I worked too in grueling conditions in Germany and slept in a horse shed together with other 20 people because we agreed we need to save money and we can't afford to pay rent. I came home and I bought myself my first car and renovated my house etc. I didn't expect the government to take care of me like I am a bitch. The reason I didn't start a business is because I am stupid and I don't have the mental fortitude to withstand the immense pressure of runnin a business, I prefered to work a normal job instead. But I didn't become bitter and envious of the successful people who were capable enough to build a business. Only the losers that want communism back bad-mouth the people who become successful. I will never be such a person. I respect and applaud the ones who earned their success and I loathe those who expect the government to give them land, housing and other stuff that the government must steal from the worthy and successful and then to give those goods to some total loser whose biggest accomplishment in life is bad-mouthing those who built their own success.

Once again you are in a delirium.

Communism is (normally) precisely about guaranteeing the needs of people who actually work.
It's in a capitalist system that you are "a bitch", because you often work for people who aren't any more essential but are better positioned.
Not everyone can become a boss; firstly because it's impossible, it makes no sense, and secondly because as you yourself say not everyone has the time, money, cognitive or physical capacity to have their "own business."
Does that mean it's too bad for them to be exploited? That's what capitalism ultimately leads to: a predatory hierarchy of exploitation.

You're conflating welfare and communism; in a communist system everyone would have to work; social assistance is only useful in a capitalist system.

Stop with your delusions of hardworking, courageous people and such versus useless people; it's fantasy and actually a bit mean to oneself when one knows the projection mechanism.

Edited 31 minutes ago by Schizophonia