Which stage is the most dysfunctional in regards to realtionships?

[Alexop]

I want to ask you, if we have three couples and they are the stereotype couples of that stage, a man with a woman, and we take stage blue, stage orange, and stage green. Which couple do you think is most dysfunctional of these three stereotype stage blue, orange, and green couples?

ChatGPT said:

If we talk purely in terms of stereotypes, the stage green couple tends to be the most prone to dysfunction, at least on the surface. Stage blue couples often have stability, rules, and clear roles, so even if things feel rigid, they function reliably. Stage orange couples can be ambitious and competitive, so conflicts exist but they often find practical solutions. Stage green couples, on the other hand, highly value equality, feelings, and consensus, which can lead to endless debates, passive-aggressive behavior, or avoidance of direct conflict, making them appear more dysfunctional in everyday life.

Ouch... I was expecting that answer haha. Careful with your deconstructions of things, equality and relativity my hippie dudes  You might make everybody equally miserable. 

Edited Wednesday at 02:45 PM by Alexop

[Majed]

@Alexop Stage blue is outdated traditional marriage. Stage orange is the rise of casual relationships. Stage green is similar to orange but with more of a spiritual, intellectual, and emotional connection going on. 

Even though honestly it's kind of a mental masturbation to be thinking like that, because everyone can be capable of multiple stages depending on the context. And also there are other more important factors for a healthy relationship, such as mental illness, traumas, addictions, values alignment, as well as having similar worldviews, financial freedom and stability, education levels has to match, as well as general levels of maturity and wisdom. 

Like somebody who is wise and mature and is philosophically minded and spiritually inclined, wouldn't function well with a materialistic person who can't think of anything beyond basic material life. 

There are some developmental factors in the list that i gave like maturity or the similarity of worldview or education levels... But i think thinking about it in terms of the list that i gave is much more intelligent than thinking in terms of stupid colors which are so vague and do not really describe reality accurately in the sense that most people do not fit a color in the spiral dynamics model. 

[Alexop]

You would be amazed how conformist Stage Green can be, if you live in a Stage Green dominant country you’ll notice how they just adopt the mainstream behaviors and values without questioning. The average Stage Green person from today’s Green countries are very unevenly developed, often lacking Orange and Red qualities, leading to a overly emotional, conflict avoidant, ideological about equality and safety before everything, even before truth. The main thing is equality bias that makes them believe (falsely) that men behave and have the same needs and preferences like women, this is the biggest fallacy of today’s underdeveloped Green people. Now of course you’ll meet some wholesome, mature Green people that understand these asymmetries, usually spiritual people but are still not at Tier 2 yet.

I specifically mentioned the stereotype person, which is not perfect and did not properly integrate stages from below, it is the average Green Joe and Josephine.

Edited Wednesday at 06:21 PM by Alexop

[aurum]

Stage Green relationships are not more dysfunctional than Blue or Orange. This is very wrong.

They have their own issues, which create the push towards SD Green.

You don't want to create such a backlash against Green that you forget it's more functional than what came before it.

[Alexop]

15 hours ago, aurum said:

Stage Green relationships are not more dysfunctional than Blue or Orange. This is very wrong.

They have their own issues, which create the push towards SD Green.

You don't want to create such a backlash against Green that you forget it's more functional than what came before it.

In some aspects it can be, of course you have to take this with a grain of salt.

Edited yesterday at 10:34 AM by Alexop

[aurum]

7 minutes ago, Alexop said:

In some aspects it can be, of course you have to take this with a grain of sand. 

Yes, but if we are talking on the whole, then the answer is no.

A Stage Blue relationship will be rife with mechanical judgments, moralizing, suppression, lying, abuse and all manner of toxic, low development behavioral patterns.

To think this is worse than Green is a huge sense-making error, and likely shows a bias against Green. One of the benefits of Green is that it cleans up a lot of this toxicity. 

The value of a vertical model like Spiral Dynamics is that it helps you avoid these kind of sense-making mistakes. 

[OmniNaut]

I can see validity in all the replies here. 

But @Alexop ask ChatGPT how each colour is giving birth to the next colour.

SD Blue will stay in a relationship out of conformity, while trying to look peachy on the outside. 

SD orange corrects this, for example by legalising divorce in free circumstances. Divorce in SD blue is only possible with abuse or adultery. No fault divorce is only legalised in the US since 1969.

SD orange will not stay together for conformity, but also don't understand their own or each others emotions.

SD Green corrects this by exploring emotions more, free love, etc etc.

SD Green free approach to love and relationships often backfires in the long term. Which in time will give birth to SD Yellow relationships, because this is 2nd tier it will integrate previous colours.

Unfortunately there is the dreaded 1st tier ceiling which is hard to breakthrough. So it will take a while for humanity to breakthrough to 2nd tier relationships.

What happens a lot with these kind of dynamics is overcorrection. Not only in the relationship between colours but between the colours in general.

This is important to understand why there is the evolution in colours, the negative aspects of each colour creates the next colour. Without the negative aspects there is no need to change.

It's not a bug It's a feature.

Because these colours are Tier 1 they're completely blind to it.

Edited yesterday at 04:03 AM by OmniNaut

[Alexop]

@OmniNaut Tier 1 stages are not a straightforward improvement in any possible way from one to the other. It is ideology based and conformist based, even the individualistic stages are still very conformist. Those stage orange couples that think they are unique are basically some conformist automatons that conform to the Instagram pop culture. Green is even more conformist because it is a very feminine stage. Those hippies that you see dressing in cool interesting ways is just a pseudo-diversity. real diversity is in values, behaviour and knowledge. And Green messes up realtionships quite bad because of not understanding masculinity and femininity. Only Tier 2 has autonomy of mind because it realized how limited and stupid all the ideologies and cultures are.

Edited yesterday at 11:41 AM by Alexop

[Tenebroso]

Spiritual narcissism is a big issue in stage green. They seem to put themselves on this moral pedestal and become very judgemental. 

[Emerald]

I asked Chat GPT, exact same query, only with the addition of "In regards to Spiral Dynamics" at the beginning, and I got a very different answer. And to be clear, I don't have a ChatGPT account. 

Prompt: In regards to Spiral Dynamics... I want to ask you, if we have three couples and they are the stereotype couples of that stage, a man with a woman, and we take stage blue, stage orange, and stage green. Which couple do you think is most dysfunctional of these three stereotype stage blue, orange, and green couples?

Here's ChatGPT's answer:

That’s a fascinating and nuanced question — one that Spiral Dynamics fans often wrestle with, because dysfunction looks different depending on the value system rather than the level itself.

Let’s walk through each stereotypical couple briefly and then assess “dysfunction” in their context.

🟦 Stage Blue Couple (Traditional / Conformist)

Core values: Order, duty, morality, tradition, hierarchy, sacrifice for the greater good (family, religion, nation).
Stereotypical couple: A man and woman in a clearly defined, traditional marriage. The man might be the provider or authority figure; the woman might prioritize family, faith, and moral stability.

Potential strengths: Stability, loyalty, shared values, clear roles, commitment.
Potential dysfunctions: Suppression of individuality, rigid gender roles, shame/guilt-based control, emotional repression, authoritarian dynamics (“I know what’s best”), intolerance of difference.

Typical dysfunction: Power imbalance masked as moral righteousness; lack of authentic emotional intimacy due to rigid roles.

🟧 Stage Orange Couple (Modern / Achiever)

Core values: Success, autonomy, rationality, competition, personal freedom, material progress.
Stereotypical couple: Both partners are ambitious professionals, results-driven, measuring success by achievements and lifestyle.

Potential strengths: Independence, self-development, innovation, goal orientation.
Potential dysfunctions: Emotional neglect, transactional dynamics, status competition within the relationship, workaholism, shallow connection.

Typical dysfunction: Disconnection masked by busyness and success; love expressed through achievement rather than presence.

🟩 Stage Green Couple (Postmodern / Relativist)

Core values: Equality, empathy, authenticity, community, emotional openness, inclusivity.
Stereotypical couple: Both partners value emotional honesty, co-creation, and conscious communication. They avoid hierarchy, want fairness, and emphasize feelings and shared understanding.

Potential strengths: Deep emotional connection, mutual respect, shared growth.
Potential dysfunctions: Over-intellectualizing emotions, conflict avoidance (“everything is valid”), lack of clear boundaries, passive-aggressiveness, decision paralysis from trying to please everyone.

Typical dysfunction: Emotional fusion and lack of structure — the relationship may drown in endless processing or an aversion to conflict.

⚖️ Comparing Dysfunction Across Levels

If we’re talking about which is “most dysfunctional”, it depends on what you mean by dysfunction:

In terms of oppression or imbalance: Stage Blue can be the most dysfunctional — it may involve repression, submission, and emotional rigidity.

In terms of emotional alienation and burnout: Stage Orange can be most dysfunctional — partners may drift apart while maintaining an image of success.

In terms of lack of grounding or practicality: Stage Green can be most dysfunctional — partners can get lost in ideals and never resolve things concretely.

🧭 Summary

StageDysfunction TypeMetaphor

BlueRigid, hierarchical, repressive“Trapped in tradition”

OrangeDisconnected, competitive“Trapped in success”

GreenOverly egalitarian, indecisive“Trapped in feelings”

If you force me to choose one as “most dysfunctional” in a modern Western context, I’d say Stage Blue — because its rigidity often leads to suffering that’s unacknowledged or moralized away. But in a hypermodern urban setting, Stage Orange dysfunction (disconnection and emptiness) might be more common and corrosive.

Would you like me to sketch out what a typical conflict dynamic looks like in each couple (e.g., how they fight and resolve issues)? That can make the differences even clearer.

 

[Zen LaCroix]

I asked ChatGPT as well. I didn't mention any specific stages in my prompt. It gave a short snippet on each stage and at the end it said:

✅ Most Dysfunctional Stage: Red — because it’s driven by raw ego, dominance, control, and emotional volatility with little empathy or self-awareness.

Edited 10 hours ago by Zen LaCroix

[Alexop]

@Emerald pretty cool answer. Mine is prompted for very direct, non-sugar coating answers. The whole tier 1 has pretty shit relationships to be honest, but the answer I got is pretty fascinating and not very wrong. But of course it depends on what Blue and Orange people we talk about. The relationships can be way worse than Green if the man is a dominant macho or some shit like that.

[Sincerity]

Check out the book Integral Relationships.

Here’s a preview: https://www.integralpsychology.org/uploads/1/5/3/0/15300482/stages_of_sexual_development_and_anima_and_animus.pdf

I think that stages 3, 4 and 5 of anima/animus development in this model correlate well with stages blue, orange and green.