Hojo

Sadhguru on Dr k

255 posts in this topic

@Elliott "There is no teacher or student, there is only the One" is a marketing trick to make him seem more enlightened and is more effective for drawing people in than saying "I'm enlightened and I can enlighten you". The latter is actually the most honest position, the former could be the position concerned about not turning people off. Prove me wrong :P

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Elliott "There is no teacher or student, there is only the One" is a marketing trick to make him seem more enlightened and is more effective for drawing people in than saying "I'm enlightened and I can enlighten you". The latter is actually the most honest position, the former could be the position concerned about not turning people off. Prove me wrong :P

Could absolutely be the case, very plausible. I would only disagree with "most honest", I would say 'less dishonest', but we probably mean the same thing.

If you want to ask me a question, go ahead. It's hard for me to imagine you care about defending Sadhguru this much, is it just about my seeming to dance around in discussion? I knew about Sadhguru and had this opinion before this thread. I just don't value elaborating much in comments unless asked. People misunderstand each other a large amount of the time and there's so many different perspectives that interact with online comments, it's usually a waste.

Edited by Elliott

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting thread.

Don’t y’all think that spiritual teachers have to be “con men” in some way? Maybe “con men” isn’t quite the right term here, since it implies ill will. How about “tricksters”? Tricksters who don’t actually want anything from you, but are trying to fool you into the spiritual path for your own growth — for your own good. It’s morally grey, I admit, but that’s been one of the methods for a long time. There’s even a whole article on wiki about Divine Madness (theia mania). A lot of those figures were probably such tricksters.

I think there’s a fine line between genuine teachers who mean well and actual crooks who are just selling a flashy show with fireworks but no real value.

The Bible says we should judge them by their fruits. =)

I’ve read the whole thread, and it seems like quite a few people here have actually tried Sadhguru’s Inner Engineering and his approach to kriya yoga.

So how about we just ask them point blank about their purely subjective experiences? After all, it’s pretty hard to design a valid, foolproof scientific study on something as complex as yoga. We do have some data from PubMed, sure, but in my view, that doesn’t mean we should dismiss the subjective reports of those who’ve walked the talk and have something to share.

I’d really like to hear your stories (@OBEler @Carl-Richard @Ishanga @The Blind Sage @SamC), and I think they could be useful for others too. You mentioned there were some benefits — but what exactly? And how long did you practice before you started noticing results? Were the results mostly psychological? Physical? Or maybe something more esoteric, like subtle body experiences, energy, kundalini phenomena? What about more low-key effects in daily life? Maybe some of the people you know personally had some interesting experience with it as well?

I think kriya yoga is an important part of self-actualization, and this is a great opportunity for us to learn more about it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wintermute said:

Don’t y’all think that spiritual teachers have to be “con men” in some way? Maybe “con men” isn’t quite the right term here, since it implies ill will. How about “tricksters”? Tricksters who don’t actually want anything from you, but are trying to fool you into the spiritual path for your own growth — for your own good. It’s morally grey, I admit, but that’s been one of the methods for a long time. There’s even a whole article on wiki about Divine Madness (theia mania). A lot of those figures were probably such tricksters.

I think there’s a fine line between genuine teachers who mean well and actual crooks who are just selling a flashy show with fireworks but no real value.

No. You're confusing spirituality with ideology. The conmen are the ones that say "this is the path", 'I can do this for you'. They know they're lying, where are the people Sadhguru has enlightened? Spirituality is not a path, it's an endless realm in any and all directions, and each individual has individualized experiences. *Spirituality is not related to enlightenment. 

Edited by Elliott

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Wintermute For Me, before I discovered Sadhguru, I was very into "Self Help" or "Self Improvement" if You could call it that, ppl like Tony Robbins, Zig Ziglar, Brian Tracy and many other, read many books on it, then I discovered Tolle's Book New Earth, and read it and it changed everything, its basically a book about Ego, and when You recognize Your Ego, You can't go back.  When I watched Tolle on Youtube, he was good but a bit boring then a suggestion for a Sadhguru vid came up and I watched it and that was it, he just had so much clarity about what he was talking about, so I watched more and found more clarity in what he said, so that was a sort of transformation..

When I did the basic practice after a couple of weeks I did feel a change, then after doing the online IE course there was more change, then I did an in person with Sadhguru in 2012 and was initiated into Shambhavi Mahamudra, and after that practice within a couple of weeks I was feeling very happy, very accepting of things and such, so it was profound...

I think what happens is we get used to it, and that is what he talks about, Humans never want to be in a box or situation very long, we get used to things very fast and always want to expand and "Be more than what we are right Now".  I don't watch many of his vids anymore since I deep investigated all of what he offers online already, once in awhile I review the inner engineering material and such, he provides lots for newbies and advanced practitioners, but the basics are this, set up an Experience of min Peacefulness within, then all will happen naturally, the accepting, the responding, the living NOW, this is not rocket science, we have a tendency to complicate things in life, its pretty simple if Your Blissful of Your own nature (this is not the goal of Spirituality, just the foundation), then You will naturally be inclined to Enlightenment!


Karma Means "Life is my Making", I am 100% responsible for my Inner Experience. -Sadhguru..."I don''t want Your Dreams to come True, I want something to come true for You beyond anything You could dream of!!" - Sadhguru

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Elliott said:

No. You're confusing spirituality with ideology. The conmen are the ones that say "this is the path", 'I can do this for you'. They know they're lying, where are the people Sadhguru has enlightened?

According to you, all spiritual teachers are conmen. Some are just honest about it and tell it to your face. Some prop themselves up to keep plausible deniability, seem humble and more enlightened and sell more of their stuff. Which is a good thing irrespective.

Imagine you're at the top of the Eiffel Tower and somebody is selling parachutes. They are even jumping themselves. Even if they don't say to your face "I believe this is the way, I believe I can help you get to the ground", you see they have put their life on it (invested their life into it) and tried it themselves (used the techniques themselves). The conviction in their actions speaks more than their words.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

According to you, all spiritual teachers are conmen.

Lie, the only one I've called a conman is Sadhguru, I don't consider the others mentioned here to be conmen. If Sadhguru would stop misleading people to think he has magical sauce they need, everything else he does is great, even the pay for Kriya. Charging for spirituality is fine, charging for something you tell people they need get's you into problem territory.

Quote

Imagine you're at the top of the Eiffel Tower and somebody is selling parachutes. They are even jumping themselves. Even if they don't say to your face "I believe this is the way, I believe I can help you get to the ground", you see they have put their life on it (invested their life into it) and tried it themselves (used the techniques themselves). The conviction in their actions speaks more than their words.

Sadhguru sells them a parachute, but to take the elevator down.... and calls it skydiving.

This is a good analogy you brought up. Spirituality is a form of tourism, but Sadhguru sells it as something else 'the sauce you need', "you are mentally ill, I have the cure".

You get what you pay for with Spira, sure some people HOPE it's something more. Some people hope the Eifel tower is cooler than it is, but when the ticket guy at the entrance tells them it's a life changing experience, he's a conman.

Edited by Elliott

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Elliott

Here is how spiritual teaching works (or how it doesn't work): "I had this marvellous experience once and I pursued it with these practices and then I became established in this experience. Come sit with me for 4000$ and we'll talk about this experience, these practices. But if you ask me 'do you think I will experience this experience by me doing that?' "No, no, no — what? Are you crazy? At no point did I say that. I just want your 4000$". This is your position.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Elliott

Here is how spiritual teaching works (or how it doesn't work): "I had this marvellous experience once and I pursued it with these practices and then I became established in this experience. Come sit with me for 4000$ and we'll talk about this experience, these practices. But if you ask me 'do you think I will experience this experience by me doing that?' "No, no, no — what? Are you crazy? At no point did I say that. I just want your 4000$".

 

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

This is your position.

No it isn't.

People will likely have experiences with Sadhgurus workshops. Spiritual tourism. Just quit selling it as enlightenment, or a cure for all of people's "true" problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Elliott said:

 

No it isn't.

People will likely have experiences with Sadhgurus workshops. Spiritual tourism. Just quit selling it as enlightenment, or a cure for all of people's "true" problems.

I think You don't know what he is teaching really! I've studied this man for over a decade now, been in his presence a few times as I've stated.. 

He is not promising Enlightenment for everyone that follows him or uses his methods, if anything he is saying that at the least You will have a Peaceful Experience naturally!  To join the Brahmachari program at Isha, there is a thorough interviewing process, hundreds apply each year, they are not allowing everyone to join it, and its free as far as I know, this is for serious Spiritual practitioners that want to go all the way in this life time, for sure they are doing different Sadhana and Practices that most others are doing, and their picky about who is involved with it, so if he is a "conman" and out to get Your money what is this all about? Also, why spend money on ashrams and temples and statues? Why not just bank all the money coming in for himself, why spend it on that??

He's a Guru for our times, he's set himself up this way, it seems to be working as many are interested and using his methods...

At the 3min mark someone asks about liberation, he says that one has to basically set up the right atmosphere for that too happen, the right atmosphere is a Peaceful/Blissful Experience naturally arising for You, if he's selling anything it is that!

 

Edited by Ishanga

Karma Means "Life is my Making", I am 100% responsible for my Inner Experience. -Sadhguru..."I don''t want Your Dreams to come True, I want something to come true for You beyond anything You could dream of!!" - Sadhguru

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Elliott said:

No it isn't.

People will likely have experiences with Sadhgurus workshops. Spiritual tourism. Just quit selling it as enlightenment, or a cure for all of people's "true" problems.

My god, on what planet can you claim Rupert Spira is not selling enlightenment? You're absolutely removed from reality.

Since we're about that "show me" game, I'll give you one challenge: find me one person on the forum who believes Sadhguru sells enlightenment but Spira doesn't. You can find me plenty who believe Sadhguru is a conman, but find me one person who believes he sells enlightenment but Spira doesn't. I will virtually guarantee you they will either say they both sell enlightenment or they both don't sell enlightenment, not one or the other. And this will be because you've backed yourself into an ad hoc corner, painting with the fine-comb pedantic brush; backed yourself so tightly in there that nobody else could fit in there.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Elliott said:

 

No it isn't.

People will likely have experiences with Sadhgurus workshops. Spiritual tourism. Just quit selling it as enlightenment, or a cure for all of people's "true" problems.

There are no "problems" in life, just situations! If You freak out and act compulsively, reacting per say, then Your intelligence to get thru the Situation is reduced, but if Your bliss or peace is not affected, your clarity is still there, Your Blissful no matter what, then Your intelligence is always there, that is the teaching, it makes sense!


Karma Means "Life is my Making", I am 100% responsible for my Inner Experience. -Sadhguru..."I don''t want Your Dreams to come True, I want something to come true for You beyond anything You could dream of!!" - Sadhguru

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr sadguru is a comedian, an actor, a businessman, no different than other players in the game, like trump or dalai lama, these are all puppets put upon the pedistool to entertain, challenge, and distract the seeker from realizing true nature. Imagination is key, stillness reveals the dance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Ramasta9 said:

Mr sadguru is a comedian, an actor, a businessman, no different than other players in the game, like trump or dalai lama, these are all puppets put upon the pedistool to entertain, challenge, and distract the seeker from realizing true nature. Imagination is key, stillness reveals the dance.

Everyone has their own perception of the world and the people in it. But thank you for sharing yours. 

 

Edited by Salvijus

Freedom is love under all conditions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I watched like 30mins. First impressions, Dr K. seemed very unauthentic, he said he agreed with everything but he was clearly skeptical and couldn't follow up on some things that Sadhguru said. I would have liked if he instead showed some of his own cognitive dissonance, because he was giving very little ground to an honest conversation too. Sadhguru also avoided that fact and didn't try to understand where Dr K. was coming from. I also get annoyed with people like dr K, but I think I can manage it way better than Sadhguru.

For example, at one point Sadhguru talks about the "memory of your cells" being more powerful than you. Clearly Dr K didn't buy into it despite having lots of truths. And so he was very little reciprocal.

Edited by Human Mint

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now