Who Wants Actualized Psychedelic Retreats?

[Leo Gura]

There exists a supernatural domain of consciousness which is so advanced that no words can communicate it to you.

It is like trying to explain human consciousness to an ant.

Humans are just ants. Nothing more. Nothing humans understand means anything from a higher POV. This includes nonduality and enlightenment and all human spirituality. All of it is ant stuff.

Words can only do so much, which is why I like the idea of chemical retreats. The real work is in the chemicals, not in my talking. The chemical can show you what words never can.

Edited Wednesday at 07:54 PM by Leo Gura

[Nemra]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Words can only do so much, which is why I like the idea of chemical retreats. The real work is in the chemicals, not in my talking. The chemical can show you what words never can.

When you say that "the real work is in chemicals" and words aren't helpful, you mean that no amount of contemplation or any other human method could be of help with the chemicals to access that domain, right?

Edited Wednesday at 08:04 PM by Nemra

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Nemra said:

When you say that "the real work is in chemicals" and words aren't helpful, you mean that no amount of contemplation or any other human method could be of help with the chemicals to access that domain, right?

Right. But words are helpful and necessary, they just aren't sufficient.

Words are like medical theory. Medical theory is important for a surgeon, but none of that can replace doing actual surgery. Chemicals are the actual surgery. You can't be a good surgeon from theory alone, but you still need plenty of theory to be a good surgeon.

Doing surgery without solid theory would be insanely dangerous. Which is what most trippers do.

Actualized.org provides the needed theory, and now hopefully also the surgery.

Edited Wednesday at 08:21 PM by Leo Gura

[Nemra]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But words are helpful and necessary, they just aren't sufficient.

As long as we survive as humans, because after tripping, we will come back, and we would still have an outdated theory of the world without rethinking about the experience, which would backfire, right?

Edited Wednesday at 10:16 PM by Nemra

[Nemra]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Actualized.org provides the needed theory, and now hopefully also the surgery.

Wasn't that theory built upon doing "surgeries"?

I think that the "surgery" must be held more significant than the theories of it.

I assume you would say that most theories are BS of what you talk about. So, it could also be dangerous to prefer theorizing in the name of safety instead of doing "surgery".

Imagine the first human who did actual surgery without any theory. That's how it must have started.

Edited Wednesday at 08:47 PM by Nemra

[Leo Gura]

@Nemra I got overkill on theory and on surgery.

My theory is based on surgery but also goes much deeper too.

[UnbornTao]

On 10/7/2025 at 5:27 AM, zurew said:

I dont want to defend the drugs (because I dont care about that, I care about being accurate about enlightenement and whether it is random or not), but the inference you gave so far doesnt establish the idea that enlightenement is random or that nothing can increase the chance of it. The entailment of what you are saying is that there is no such thing as enlightenment work and even Ralston probably wouldnt want to say such a thing.

Even your dream analogy doesnt hold up - its like saying "getting hit with a hammer in a dream cant cause you /induce the experience of  pain, because you are absolute". Your absolute nature wont prevent from the dream having certain patterns to it and it doesnt necessarily have to be causal patterns.

 

It was the case, but enlightenment is the recognition of that truth and recognitions are time related - this is why you can talk about stuff like "you are not enlightened at t(0) but you are enlightened at t(5)".

If you grant that enlightenement is recognition related  , then lets talk about things that can help with (not necessarily cause) recognitions. Anything that can drive or spread one's awareness or attention can be relevant to enlightenment work. The pattern (your absolute nature) that needs to be recognized is always "in front of you", its just that your awareness and attention never "catches it".

 

 

Just think about what the entailment is when you say stuff like "you can recognize it right now" - what does that mean? It means that it is always available to you regardless of time and place, but it also means that you need to fuck with your awareness and attention (otherwise the recognition would have already happened). Its like there has always been a screen in front of you and you havent recognized that fact yet , because you were distrated by focusing on the forms on the screen and the experiences the screen created within you (your awareness and attention was distracted from the relevant fact that it is a screen and this is why the recognition couldnt happen and the pattern [the screen] couldnt be recognized)

I know the analogy with the screen isnt perfect because screens are spatiotemporal and we are talking about non-spatiotemporal stuff (there is no specific space or time to focus you attention to or on), but you still need to fuck with your awareness and attention or "spread" it for the deep existential recognition to happen.

I hear the logic, but it doesn't apply to enlightenment. I suspect it's impossible for us to hear that it is not an experience, because we have no contrast for us to understand that. All we have is our experience - this is where we'll look. We tend to think it requires a method, or that it is a process - that it will change something or improve our experience - that being in a Zen monastery is more likely to "cause" it than being in a library or on a beach - or that it couldn't occur while we're depressed, miserable, distracted, or even taking a shower. Bring up what you think enlightenment is, and then consider that it isn't any of that. This is the point that is very easily overlooked. Experiencing this impossibility for oneself is more powerful than just believing it.

It’s an analogy: obviously, waking up is what we're calling enlightenment. The idea is that action occurs within the dream, and so it is different from the realization itself. Hence the impossibility argument.

It's impossible to get "from here to there."

It isn't an experience.

It is sudden and direct.

And yet, it is possible for you to "get" it now - go figure.

That's the gist of it.

One enlightenment doesn't make you all-knowing overnight; ignorance remains. It usually takes several breakthroughs before one would be considered awakened. Yet this "over time" process doesn't change what you are, nor does it change the fact that each breakthrough is sudden. You may know your nature, but not what an emotion is, for example. At some point the attempt to fabricate a worldview out of this will crumble because it isn't mappable or able to be fit into an mentally graspable form. Something like that.

On 10/7/2025 at 4:32 PM, zurew said:

You have an assymetric approach to this and it doesnt make sense.

You hold to the position that the chance of enlightenment cant be elevated but at the same time you are against doing certain things like conceptualization. How can you hold to the position that the chance can be lowered but cant be elevated -  Why be against anything if none of it matters and it is completely random anyway?

When the Zen master hits the student with a stick that as unhelpful under your view to get the student enlightened as infinite conceptualization about random shit.

If the idea is that "because conceptualization about enlightenment isnt enlightenement" - then my reply is - why is that bad? You hold to the position that nothing can have any causal effect on it ,so again,  why care about who is deceived? You hold to the position that a guy who meditated and did yoga 60 years constantly in a cave has exactly as much chance to get enlightened as any given random infant who was born 1 second ago.

You are already you. (!)

The best one can do within the dream seems to be to remain open and genuinely want to know what's true - yet even this is just the action you take while "waiting" for enlightenment. What I said doesn't invalidate that certain experiences can help focus the mind, for example - which may put you in a better state to question, among other things. The Zen master is simply telling the monks to pay attention - or helping them stay awake. From the perspective of the dream, direct consciousness generally has to be "worked on," as it's unlikely to just "fall on your ass," as it seemingly did with Maharshi. But in actuality there's no real requirement other than to get it now. And you can do since it isn't something different from you, nor a grandiose state, spiritual fantasy, or achievement - it's what you are. I don't know why or how, but it turns out we are ignorant of our nature. Maybe because we're so distracted by or involved with our perceptive-experience. It's a bit ironic that the truth of ourselves seems so elusive while untruth is so easy to come by.

And I'm not against conceptualization - conceptualize all you want; we already do it anyway. The suggestion is simply that you won't arrive at enlightenemnt by a process of figuring things out. It transcends the mind and perception.

Nor am I against psychedelics as a stance, by the way. I'm just saying they don't increase consciousness. They may assist in transformation, healing, opening your mind, learning, or generating insights - but they don't lead to enlightenment.

There. Now throw this out and get enlightened.

Edited Wednesday at 09:05 PM by UnbornTao

[Nemra]

@Leo Gura, I'm not trying to specifically cast a doubt on what you've been saying through these years. I know that you've been hammering on the "surgery" part. That's what makes your theories worth listening to, at least for me.

Though, a lot of your God, alien, etc., theories I don't know what it actually points to because I barely have experience with psychedelics. So, I'm trying to treat them as possibilities, even though they sound very interesting and deep to me.

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My theory is based on surgery but also goes much deeper too.

But your theory must be as deep as your experience of "surgery" allows it to be.

Edited Wednesday at 09:44 PM by Nemra

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Though, a lot of your God, alien, etc., theories I don't know what it actually points to because I barely have experience with psychedelics. So, I'm trying to treat them as possibilities, even though they sound very interesting and deep to me.

I haven't even formally tried to explain those things. I merely mentioned them in passing as something my work will eventually build to. It is a sneak peak of advanced stuff that I have been tinkering with.

And the point of these retreats is to help people access the advanced stuff which words cannot do justice to.

[Nemra]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I haven't even formally tried to explain those things. I merely mentioned them in passing as something my work will eventually build to. It is a sneak peak of advanced stuff that I have been tinkering with.

What's not advanced about your existential stuff? 

As of now, a lot of them might not be advanced to you, but for me, all of the existential stuff that I have heard from you is advanced.

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And the point of these retreats is to help people access the advanced stuff which words cannot do justice to.

Which means that people who want to attend must be familiar with your theories about those stuff, right?

So, we also must have done what you consider non-advanced existential stuff before joining your retreat? If so, what are those?

Edited Wednesday at 10:10 PM by Nemra

[ZenSwift]

16 hours ago, Zen LaCroix said:

I can already envision on the retreat:

- People being geeked out and mentally worshipping Leo

@Zen LaCroix

 

This is literally going to be the first hour:

 

Followed by cries that look like timestamp 3:00

 

 

 

 

[r0ckyreed]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There exists a supernatural domain of consciousness which is so advanced that no words can communicate it to you.

It is like trying to explain human consciousness to an ant.

Humans are just ants. Nothing more. Nothing humans understand means anything from a higher POV. This includes nonduality and enlightenment and all human spirituality. All of it is ant stuff.

Words can only do so much, which is why I like the idea of chemical retreats. The real work is in the chemicals, not in my talking. The chemical can show you what words never can.

But the real kicker is that you’re imagining all those higher states of consciousness right now. All those higher states are consciousness are hallucinations in the now. Since time is illusion, you never experienced them only imagining them now. If you aren’t conscious that you’re a God right now then your previous God realizations are only imagination.

[UnbornTao]

On 10/7/2025 at 11:47 AM, Leo Gura said:

No!

Stop parroting Ralston. Ralston is wrong and you are wrong for parroting him.

I only talk Absolute Consciousness.

I'm not talking about anything relative or even human here.

All your ideas of enlightenment are kids games.

You do not understand what God/Consciousness/Infinity is. I do.

There is no fucking brain. There is just God.

I am so conscious that I could shoot myself in the head and not die.

You do not understand what I am saying. You do not understand that your entire life is a hallucination, including your damn dog. You are parroting nondual tripe, but you are not conscious of God.

I addressed some of your points in my other reply, even if only indirectly.

It's like assuming that wearing a different shirt will build muscle. Direct consciousness isn't a function of brain chemistry or physiology, which is what you claim.

Why would any activity have anything to do with or touch the Absolute? That was your suggestion, not mine. You still ascribe "requirements" and possibilities where they don't apply. What I said is that a state is a state, and an experience is an experience - all of it ultimately irrelevant when it comes to this direct business - including this very hallucination and its contents, of which the drugs are a part. They can open your mind, but only you do it, whatever the circumstances.

Likewise, practices like fasting or chanting won't make you enlightened either. There's no how or method to get you there, and no way for us to know why an awakening happens for you. We assume that since we might have had an enlightenment, we'd now be able to reproduce more breakthroughs or access them - yet the "reason" why it occurs still remains a mystery for us. We just do it - we become absolutely conscious. The work always starts from scratch.

It may seem discouraging, even hopeless, that no practice or path can lead to enlightenment. But that's just how it is. The good news is that you're already here - hence, direct.

Something in the relative world isn't going to produce an Absolute result.

[UnbornTao]

On 10/7/2025 at 0:32 PM, Thought Art said:

I say it because I am speaking from direct consciousness and you are, in this case, quoting external authority figures. Something, I am not completely clean of either.

Sure you are.

On 10/7/2025 at 0:36 PM, Thought Art said:

And my dog, and the fly stuck in the window too?

Why do you care? You can always ask what another is, or what life or sentience are, but usually, one would start with oneself.

Edited Wednesday at 11:39 PM by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

On 10/7/2025 at 0:39 PM, vibv said:

This is false. Consciousness is a Process that is happening right Here & right Now.

So you could say: Nothing can, indeed, produce Direct Consciousness

A process is a doing. You're referring to something relative that can be cognized - perception, perhaps.

Even when we say now, notice how it's often still not quite Now - it's still a point in time. Even if it occurs in a millisecond, it'd still be a process.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, ZenSwift said:

@Zen LaCroix

 

This is literally going to be the first hour:

Stop promoting this idea. This goes against everything I teach.

[Yimpa]

Hey, that’s the same foot I have really bad eczema on!  /gen

Edited Thursday at 12:14 AM by Yimpa

[Jannes]

On 8.10.2025 at 2:08 AM, Leo Gura said:

I am not a drug Walmart. You are lucky there is even one legal chem we can take.

People will react differently to drugs. How can you be sure that this chemical will have the desired effect on everyone and not just you?

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Jannes said:

People will react differently to drugs. How can you be sure that this chemical will have the desired effect on everyone and not just you?

No different than an ayahuasca retreat.

It will work on most people. But there could be a few genetic freaks on whom it fails to work. There is no way to ensure against this other than trial.

When a doctor gives you medication he can never be 100% sure it will work on you. There is no magic way around this. Life requires trying stuff and seeing what works.

Edited Thursday at 12:19 AM by Leo Gura

[ExploringReality]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There exists a supernatural domain of consciousness which is so advanced that no words can communicate it to you.

It is like trying to explain human consciousness to an ant.

Humans are just ants. Nothing more. Nothing humans understand means anything from a higher POV. This includes nonduality and enlightenment and all human spirituality. All of it is ant stuff.

Words can only do so much, which is why I like the idea of chemical retreats. The real work is in the chemicals, not in my talking. The chemical can show you what words never can.

Actualized.org videos cannot truly be graspsed, especially the top advanced ones without a change in state of consciousness. I've listened to your episodes while tripping, totally different than sober, more attunement