Musk tells Europeans “fight back or die”

[Twentyfirst]

2 minutes ago, Elliott said:

The conditioning is strong in Musk.

His personal life is a mess. Racism, drugs, baby mommas, feuds 

[Elliott]

12 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

His personal life is a mess. Racism, drugs, baby mommas, feuds 

Not just his personal life either.

He is his father's son.

[Twentyfirst]

12 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I think this is a bit of a carricature of what racism is in the 21st century.

It's not about hatred, it's about genuine fear. Have the maturity to recognize that people aren't evil for no reason. People use social media, they are confronted with one terrible case of a migrant doing something bad after the other, and at some point they build a mental model that makes them scared.

This is no different from police violence in the US. Most police interactions go perfectly fine, but because there are so many police interactions, and therefore so many are bound to end in disaster because of incompetency, malice or simply dangerous situations, people develop a completely distorted image of what the police is. Then they call for things like defunding the police, irraitonal policies that do nothing to mitigate anything.

 

You have to realize that today is a time of fear and moral outrage. People are shown the negative effects of various social policies or groups, and their view gets distorted over time. And even when it is not distorted, it becomes defined by fear, which opens the path to hatred.

I still think it has to do with past circumstances in South Africa and the memory of that being projected and applied to today's situation. If Elon wasn't upset about South Africa then he would not be saying what he's saying today so strongly. To him it's not legal migration vs illegal migration but a race war which you can tell by his language 

[mats-2]

The worst country in the world - America

[Scholar]

8 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

I still think it has to do with past circumstances in South Africa and the memory of that being projected and applied to today's situation. If Elon wasn't upset about South Africa then he would not be saying what he's saying today so strongly. To him it's not legal migration vs illegal migration but a race war which you can tell by his language 

I can't tell it by his language, he seems like someone who is fighting illegal migration.

The problem with painting them as racist is that people obviously can see he is not a racist, like Tommy Robinson or whatever his name is. He is a guy who is extremely concerned and fears what is happening. You aren't deflating peoples fears by demonizing everyone who voices their fears, it just turns into more and more conflict, as we have observed over the past decade.

The labelling people as racist and fascist thing has been tried and it literally didn't work.

[Elliott]

5 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I can't tell it by his language, he seems like someone who is fighting illegal migration.

The problem with painting them as racist is that people obviously can see he is not a racist, like Tommy Robinson or whatever his name is. He is a guy who is extremely concerned and fears what is happening. You aren't deflating peoples fears by demonizing everyone who voices their fears, it just turns into more and more conflict, as we have observed over the past decade.

The labelling people as racist and fascist thing has been tried and it literally didn't work.

There's different kinds of racist, it doesn't necessarily mean nazi racist. Apartheidism is different than nazism, both racist, but differently.

Edited Monday at 05:56 PM by Elliott

[Twentyfirst]

2 hours ago, Scholar said:

I can't tell it by his language, he seems like someone who is fighting illegal migration.

Are you on twitter? He will post strange videos from Whatifalthist about how colonization was good and whites need to be appreciated more for it rather than disowned. He will tweet as if EU was perfectly fine before the migrants. That the migrants ruined everything because they have animalistic impulses to just rape anything in sight and they can't even control themselves. That they live off the system. That they plan on conquering and that's why they are immigrating there. You have to read between the lines but he is fighting illegal immigration is the cover story for his racism. If it were white South Africans migrating there he wouldn't see a problem with it

Quote

The problem with painting them as racist is that people obviously can see he is not a racist, like Tommy Robinson or whatever his name is. He is a guy who is extremely concerned and fears what is happening. You aren't deflating peoples fears by demonizing everyone who voices their fears, it just turns into more and more conflict, as we have observed over the past decade.

Tommy Robinson is more of an Islamophobe than a racist. I'd say Elon is more racist than Tommy. At least Tommy is European so it makes sense he feels threatened. Both of them are doing what the power structure wants them to do. Blame the migrants instead of the people who allowed the migrants to enter. It won't work they are both fighting an uphill battle and they don't have a sufficient plan to actually tackle the problem without ending up creating more problems. It's like how Connor McGregor wants to be president of Ireland. It's just a self humiliation ritual 

What do Elon or Tommy have to be afraid of? The migrants are propping up their weak birth rates. Without the migrants Europe would turn into a wasteland. They should be grateful. Don't believe the statistics that say crime has exploded since the migrants and before it was just a utopia 

Quote

The labelling people as racist and fascist thing has been tried and it literally didn't work.

I don't really know what fascist means but Elon is definitely racist. His entire app is racist. Scroll on twitter and you will see accounts with large followings  dehumanizing every ethnic group using lies and propaganda 

[Hardkill]

I think it's really because Elon doesn't like how much more support the more progressive and more fair economic policies have been getting in every developed country around the world.

That's why he turned against the Democratic party as soon he realized how much more economically left-wing it has gotten since around the mid to late 2010s coupled with his insane addiction to gaining more and more wealth, which keeps getting worse and worse.

He probably also is deep down a racist to some extent like many well-known white Christian-born South Africans have been.

Edited Monday at 09:08 PM by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

Corruption begins in the structure of one's mind.

[zazen]

This video was good:

Covers a lot of what I was talking about in comments elsewhere which is the deeper double whammy cause of populism: economic dispossession from neoliberal globalization+ cultural disregard and dissolution from liberal universalism that views limited identities as backwards.

Liberalism thinks it’s liberating people from those limitations, but instead uproots them in the process - populism is a backlash to that uprooting. People reach out for darker forms of belonging that are then exclusionary and crude.

[zazen]

This video was good:

Covers a lot of what I was talking about in comments elsewhere which is the deeper double whammy cause of populism: economic dispossession from neoliberal globalization+ cultural disregard and dissolution from liberal universalism that views limited identities as backwards.

Liberalism thinks it’s liberating people from those limitations, but instead uproots them in the process - populism is a backlash to that uprooting. People reach out for darker forms of belonging that are then exclusionary and crude - Hitlers Nazism being the worst manifestation.

The major fault line of our times is how to reconcile that tension - how to align the interests of the I (individual), WE (communal/local), ALL (global/universal).

From a big picture view the eternal tension is how to balance the security of the limited (human form) with the aspiration of the unlimited (formless Godliness). Or how to balance isness (internal essence) with what is (external form) which has constraints and limitations.

Liberal technocratic globalists vs Conservative pragmatic nationalists is the socio-cultural-political manifestation.

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:14 PM by zazen

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

This video was good:

Covers a lot of what I was talking about in comments elsewhere which is the deeper double whammy cause of populism: economic dispossession from neoliberal globalization+ cultural disregard and dissolution from liberal universalism that views limited identities as backwards.

Liberalism thinks it’s liberating people from those limitations, but instead uproots them in the process - populism is a backlash to that uprooting. People reach out for darker forms of belonging that are then exclusionary and crude - Hitlers Nazism being the worst manifestation.

The major fault line of our times is how to reconcile that tension - how to align the interests of the I (individual), WE (communal/local), ALL (global/universal).

From a big picture view the eternal tension is how to balance the security of the limited (human form) with the aspiration of the unlimited (formless Godliness). Or how to balance isness (internal essence) with what is (external form) which has constraints and limitations.

Liberal technocratic globalists vs Conservative pragmatic nationalists is the socio-cultural-political manifestation.

 

You continue to draw sweeping conclusions about all of society when all that has happened is a fringe element has come into the white house, maga.

[Joshe]

9 minutes ago, Elliott said:

You continue to draw sweeping conclusions about all of society when all that has happened is a fringe element has come into the white house, maga.

It’s the gravity of centrism. It seems that in every “centrist” take, the left is the actual root cause. Very interesting. 

The real problem of humanity is the problem of cowardice. These “centrists” are a pretty strange phenomenon if you think about it. There’s this different flavor of willful ignorance, defiance/iconoclasm, and stubbornness. It’s like it is the same cowardice of the right but they’re using a completely different strategy to deal with it. 

[zazen]

2 hours ago, Elliott said:

You continue to draw sweeping conclusions about all of society when all that has happened is a fringe element has come into the white house, maga.

NeoNazism is fringe, MAGA isn’t. If MAGA’s fringe why has it democratically been voted into power twice? It’s so fringe that we have parallels across the West - populism started hatching in Europe before Trump even came on the scene.

Why? Because that structural tension I mentioned above is coming to a head - MAGA is manifesting as a symptomatic solution to that tension and is just one of the more cruder versions of it - populism with American characteristics.

Even if MAGA is temporary, the conditions that caused its rise are structural and yet to be fixed. You’ll keep seeing similar movements that differ in name and keep mislabelling them as fridge.

The reason it seems fringe or alien is because each side is standing inside a different cultural universe with different base assumptions about reality to the other. How do people share political space  if one side believes reality/truth is more flexible and fluid (chosen) vs the other viewing it as more fixed or given (by God, biology, tradition)?

Abortion is a thorny subject that exposes that divergence on reality. Both agree killing a life is bad, but can’t agree on when life begins (conception vs viability/independence). Their base assumptions about the reality of life differ, which means their problems and solutions will differ, which means their political visions will be mutually exclusive - as different as a flat earther vs a round earther.

@Joshe Centrism can def be lazy both sides-ism or the harder work of integrating worldviews and complexity. Leftist progressivism can look brave, but be equally simplistic moral chest thumping that dodges the work of integrating ideals with reality.

Basically, the left believe that the ideals of freedom, equality and inclusion are what allow society to progress - and that as long as we are moving towards that, society will progress. It believes there are no limits to those ideals and aspirations - but mother reality says otherwise.

And if your politics is based upon the illusion that those limits don't exist and are merely self-imposed “constructs” by the relic of tradition, then the reality of ignoring reality will show itself in the form of unintended consequence.

Also, ISIS and Taliban don’t seem to suffer from cowardice but lack of conciousness and wrestling with complexity.

Edited Tuesday at 03:34 PM by zazen

[Elliott]

19 minutes ago, zazen said:

NeoNazism is fringe, MAGA isn’t. If MAGA’s fringe why has it democratically been voted into power twice? It’s so fringe that we have parallels across the West - populism started hatching in Europe before Trump even came on the scene.

Why? Because that structural tension I mentioned above is coming to a head - MAGA is manifesting as a symptomatic solution to that tension and is just one of the more cruder versions of it - populism with American characteristics.

Even if MAGA is temporary, the conditions that caused its rise are structural and yet to be fixed. You’ll keep seeing similar movements that differ in name and keep mislabelling them as fridge.

The reason it seems fringe or alien is because each side is standing inside a different cultural universe with different base assumptions about reality to the other. How do people share political space  if one side believes reality/truth is more flexible and fluid (chosen) vs the other viewing it as more fixed or given (by God, biology, tradition)?

Abortion is a thorny subject that exposes that divergence on reality. Both agree killing a life is bad, but can’t agree on when life begins (conception vs viability/independence). Their base assumptions about the reality of life differ, which means their problems and solutions will differ, which means their political visions will be mutually exclusive - as different as a flat earther vs a round earther.

@Joshe Centrism can def be lazy both sides-ism or the harder work of integrating worldviews and complexity. Leftist progressivism can look brave, but be equally simplistic moral chest thumping that dodges the work of integrating ideals with reality.

Basically, the left believe that the ideals of freedom, equality and inclusion are what allow society to progress - and that as long as we are moving towards that, society will progress. It believes there are no limits to those ideals and aspirations - but mother reality says otherwise.

And if your politics is based upon the illusion that those limits don't exist and are merely self-imposed “constructs” by the relic of tradition, then the reality of ignoring reality will show itself in the form of unintended consequence.

Also, ISIS and Taliban don’t seem to suffer from cowardice but lack of conciousness and wrestling with complexity.

Because we have a two party dynamic. MAGA is fringe, I live in a red state, I spend holidays with Republicans. Trump has record low approval.

No one gives a fuck about trans stuff, just loud mouthed morons. Many republicans support abortion rights, it is not a party line issue.

Touch grass, seriously.

Edited Tuesday at 03:51 PM by Elliott

[Spiral]

Guess I’ll die

[Joshe]

@zazen You're far more knowledgeable on politics than I am, but the way I see it is we don't have to be super politically-knowledgeable to understand the dynamic at its root and we don't need sophisticated theories, but I'm open to being wrong.

In essence, entity A and entity B must live together in the same shared reality. If one of the entities wants to implement ideas that are actually detrimental to the survival of both entities, and the entity with the bad ideas is incapable of seeing it, even in the face of evidence and reason, that is the real problem. The right consistently has worse ideas and motives, and it's not even close. 

The right is usually highly unreasonable in what they want. Many of them want you to carry your rape baby to term because some debunked religious belief. They want to ignore climate change because everything is in God's hands. Most of them are all for a strong man to force their way of life onto everyone else. These are much bigger problems than some left idealism. 

These absurd positions seem to mostly be born of truth-rejection, ignorance, and propaganda, moreso than a response to the left. 

Edited Tuesday at 07:12 PM by Joshe

[Porphyry Fedotov]

On 9/15/2025 at 10:39 PM, Joshe said:

You misunderstand the elements actually pushing people to the right. 

There are some legit problems with immigration. There’s nothing wrong with talking about those problems and seeking solutions. These problems could be dealt with in a way that is not violent, bigoted, and racist. So ask yourself, how come the problems aren’t being dealt with in that way? 

You’re conveniently ignoring two key aspects of the reality. 1: human nature and it’s susceptibility to propaganda and influence. 2: Trump, Musk, and their ilk have learned they can acquire enormous power by sowing division, and so they are actively stoking the flames of the culture wars for their own benefit. 

You have to include these two facets of reality in your overall estimation. It’s not as simple as “good, decent people are just responding naturally to a threat”. In this case, hateful sentiment has been nurtured for several years and effectively disseminated via influencers and propaganda. If you remove these aspects, the reality would be totally different. 

There are legit problems with immigration, but Europe has yet to experience them in the future. As of now, the point at which immigration would cause some problems hasn't been reached.

All I read was some crazy conspiracy ramblings about the great replacement. In Russia, we also have right-wing dummies who get triggered at the sight of thousands of Muslims doing Namaz on the streets of Moscow around the Grand Mosque during Eid al-Fitr and Eid al-Adha. But then again, Russia is half an Asian country (at least geographically)  and we've been living with Muslims side by side since medieval times, but still.

 

On 9/15/2025 at 9:42 PM, Schizophonia said:

He's right; the English must protect their culture, their very ethnic identity, and their security, which is at risk.

If you're not male like many here (no children, no business, dysthymic, so no consideration for culture and security...), you don't understand anything and are going to say "right wing gnegne."

Bro, cultural identity is a personal thing, similar to religion. All cultural identities are just bullshit painted in different colours. The state shouldn't protect it. It's up to people which cultural shenanigans they desire to participate in

[PurpleTree]

8 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

There are legit problems with immigration, but Europe has yet to experience them in the future. As of now, the point at which immigration would cause some problems hasn't been reached.

That’s horseshit. Look at Sweden, Denmark, France, Germany etc. Mostly issues with MENA immigration.

Then in some places there are other issues with more „rich“ immigration and gentrification.

[Schizophonia]

10 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

There are legit problems with immigration, but Europe has yet to experience them in the future. As of now, the point at which immigration would cause some problems hasn't been reached.

 

All I read was some crazy conspiracy ramblings about the great replacement. In Russia, we also have right-wing dummies who get triggered at the sight of thousands of Muslims doing Namaz on the streets of Moscow around the Grand Mosque during Eid al-Fitr and Eid al-Adha. But then again, Russia is half an Asian country (at least geographically)  and we've been living with Muslims side by side since medieval times, but still.

 

These are begin the questions so i'm not going to respond to that, It would take entire topics.

10 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

Bro, cultural identity is a personal thing, similar to religion. All cultural identities are just bullshit painted in different colours. The state shouldn't protect it. It's up to people which cultural shenanigans they desire to participate in

You are essentially a product of your culture/tradition.
Even if you're an unsociable autistic person hiding in a cellar, all the activities you engage in and your way of thinking—language, as Lacan would say—are essentially a social inheritance.

Look, why do you have your psychedelic avatar found on Google? To say, "Look, I'm the guy who takes psychedelics and is spiritual." You're attached to the social body.
Everyone here does that, even if one is neurotic and claims to be "above all that." "Being above all that" is still a character, haha, a stupid character to ultimately gain power and place oneself in society.

Tradition is a bundle of symbols that the libido can invest in and that facilitate social cohesion.

Without this, you end up in an atomized society where people are bored and/or their sexual energy is poorly harnessed.

Rather than pretending you don't have a dick, you might as well take care of it.