Is “Women only want the top 10 - 20%” actually true offline?

[Hardkill]

I've been contemplating on the notion that “women only want the top 20%” meme and I now find that to be really misleading. It seems to mostly describe app dynamics (photo-first, inbox floods, safety filters, status amplification). Offline, in socially dense contexts (recurring mixed-gender scenes, warm introductions, real third places), the old forces still run the show: taste diversity, multi-factor attraction, repetition, vouching, assortative matching, and satisficing.

That’s why, historically, most men (not 100%) ended up with partners by mid-life. Also, paying for sex is a minority behavior, and even among men who’ve ever paid, most of their encounters are still unpaid.

For premodern settings, “most men had sex by mid-life”—typically ~90%+ in many regions—while ever partnered ranged roughly ~80–95% depending on marriage system (lowest where late marriage or polygyny left more men single).

For modern settings, like in the past, most men have had sex by mid-life (often ~90–97%), and most will have ever partnered—but the age it happens and the share who never marry vary more now by region and economy than ever before.

Two things seem true and in tension:

1. App markets look extremely top-heavy; lots of men feel invisible.
2. Historically and across many countries, most men eventually have sex and many partner by mid-life (even average/below-average guys).

How do you reconcile these? My current hypothesis: the 20% vibe is mostly platform structure (photo sorting, message overload, safety screening), while offline contexts (warm intros, repeated contact, assortative matching) broaden who gets chosen. If you disagree, what data (not anecdotes) best shows the 20% dynamic holds offline?

[LordFall]

No in person the average woman dates the average man. If you want particularly attractive women then sure being in the top 10% yourself helps. 

 

[Twentyfirst]

What does it matter? Go in the top percent anyways just for yourself and then you'll see what happens with women by extension 

[Puer Aeternus]

Dating apps are so skewed because mostly men are on them anyways. It's just the path of least resistance so of course people will take them even less seriously.

Any pilled videos that reference dating apps honestly need to touch grass, it's giving a narrow perspective.

I think it becomes a toxic trap with guys that are chronically online. If they buy into the 20% narrative- then they've got a toxic idea imprinted in them before even going out into the world. They'll make assumptions off faulty data.

Edited yesterday at 08:33 PM by Puer Aeternus

[Hardkill]

I agree that offline, average women date average men, and that apps skew attention. The “top 20%” thing mostly describes app attention, not offline selection. Two truths can coexist:

Boosting your own package (health, style, social skills, purpose) helps a ton—do it for you.

In recurring, talk-friendly scenes with warm intros, assortative matching and mere exposure kick in, and most guys do fine without being “top 10%.”

[Hojo]

I would put all these toxic cluts in the same category as Russian propoghanda. Its like fake ideas being put into the minds of young people maliciously to make them angry or feel worthless. All the 6 foot and over only posts all the other posts are all put in the minds of people on purpose in the same way Russia would use propaganda against an enemy country.

[theleelajoker]

Agree with other posts on especially apps and bias through them.

Another reason is the whole influencer stuff, the dating coaches, the relationship advice, the how to get laid videos etc etc. 

All this crap did not exist when I was young, before smartphone, YouTube, insta etc.  Channels, coaches and content as above did not or barely exist, and it was fine. Nobody needed all that advice, analysis, all this "this is how men and woman are and how to get them to love/fuck you"

When I was young, nobody was talking about this stuff much and all kind of girls and all kind of guys and girls got a relationship or other romantic stuff going on.

I bet a large percentage of users here doesn't know these times, they grew up with all this social media brain washing. It's creating more insecurities, anxiety like @hojo says.

You might think all this information helps you but no more often than not it just creates bullshit believes systems, puts you in your head too much and it's making things worse.

All this Dating content reminds me of this 

 

Advertising sells you things that that you don't need and can't afford, that are overpriced, and that don't work. And they do it by exploiting your fears and insecurities, and if you don't have any, they happily give you some.

Edited 10 hours ago by theleelajoker

[Consept]

I went on a date about a month ago with a woman I met irl (friend of a friend). We got talking about apps and she said within her first week on Bumble she got 400 likes, 400! She's a good looking woman but I wouldn't say shes top level looks, she is a cool person though. Now in her life there is no way that anywhere near 400 guys are approaching her in a year let alone a week. Not that many guys approach for one, shes probably not gonna meet that many guys day to day. So if shes choosing on an app, she may choose 4 lets say, she actually said a lot of them she wasn't interested in, so essentially women can be extremely choosy on apps, but with the 4 that she talks to just because of time, that's literally 1% of men. 

Imagine she was top level looks wise, it'd be even crazier. Competition wise though you have so much better odds than apps. Let's say this woman gets approached a couple times a week, thats your only competition. Added to that, you have more influence on the interaction than you would on an app, your vibe, connection with her, confidence all of these are usually very important for attraction. 

So imo offline the top 20% rule could be true but in reality you only have to be the best of 10 guys rather than 400. 

I will also add as well, most dating profiles from men are dogshit, so if you do spend a bit of energy on it, take good pics, have an engaging bio, you can definitely boost yourself up. But apps by their nature are going to be hugely skewed and dont represent real life.