How do you guys accept the reality of torture?

[Emotionalmosquito]

I’ve struggled with intense hatred towards certain kinds of people more than I can describe, but there’s one thing that no sentient creature should ever have to endure. And that’s being held captive and having the worst things done to them you can imagine for the soul purpose of making them suffer as much as possible. There’s so many different ways to do it and get creative with it, different combinations people can use and so on… it’s more than disturbing, the methods are virtually endless. There are things which just thinking about would keep any decent person awake at night, yet people are living through it with no end in sight and absolutely zero hope of escape. If this only happened to one single being in all of existence, that’s infinitely too many. Now consider it’s been done to countless people and animals in all different forms for a very long time, all the way up to now.

This gives me mental indigestion. So God is everything and everyone. Right? What value does god get from doing this to itself? Illusion or not, this is something that should have never been dreamed up and makes me wish there truly was nothing rather than something.

I really wish this didn’t have to be a thing and I wanna hear your thoughts. 

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

What value does god get from doing this to itself?

God is unlimited imagination.

Torture is just one of the things that can be imagined. It is not possible that torture cannot be imagined -- since you can imagine it.

In order to be able to imagine an entire universe, torture must also be imaginable.

Torture exists simply because EVERYTHING is imaginable.

What you are really wrestling with is the fact that imagination is unlimited. And yes, that's a hell of a powerful notion. It's the power of God. Is the power of God terrifying to a mortal? Of course! God's power is unlimited and you would rather it be limited. But if it was limited in any way then the universe could not be imagined from nothing.

Edited August 29 by Leo Gura

[aurum]

How could God be God if it couldn't imagine torture?

You are biased against torture because torture is bad for your limited, survival agenda. And you want to impose that on God as a whole.

[Emotionalmosquito]

@Leo Gura What made me start thinking about this again was I re watched your video about understanding immortality where you said when you die you dissolve into infinite love and it’s the greatest experience oat. In the video you mentioned “don’t get me wrong, if you torture someone to death that’s gonna be hell for them until they die” and very right you are. That’s my problem. That sweet release can be delayed for potentially decades upon decades during which can be unimaginably horrific and nonstop torment. This is currently happening to people. And since god has to experience every possibility, that means more is bound to happen to me and everyone else in every way we haven’t yet underwent. I can’t accept that. 
 

Of course this also means I’ll get to experience every kinky sexual experience my incel ego could ever want, but the weight of suffering to contrast it just isn’t worth it.

Edited August 29 by Emotionalmosquito

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

I can’t accept that.

Correct.

You can't accept it. You must die.

The acceptance of Infinity is called death.

An ego/self cannot accept Infinity. Infinity is too serious to be "accepted". It kills you and your death is the "acceptance".

Imagine a gazelle getting caught in the jaws of a lion. At first it struggles but at some point the struggle become futile and it just "accepts" it. Yes, life is a difficult thing so appreciate every peaceful moment while it lasts because it won't last forever.

Edited August 29 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

https://youtu.be/s4lCF3gFZ9w?si=H8x1zp6zRPe8gidE&t=436

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xS9nuDHpPE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhlOZDxgmwY

Edited August 29 by Raze

[Emotionalmosquito]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You must die

Best thing you’ve ever told me fr 

But that’s just it, death doesn’t come any time soon for those in these positions. In fact every minute can feel like a hundred years as time loses all meaning. 

[Leo Gura]

@Emotionalmosquito Well, spiritual Awakening is the solution for you.

[Emotionalmosquito]

One of the better meditations I’ve had was one where I mentally chanted “die” to myself as a mantra on each exhale as if I was instructing myself to do so. 
 

I do like this idea (potentially the absolute truth but to me it’s currently just an idea) that god must experience every possibility in every possible form. If that were realized to be the case then that would dissolve any reason you could have to stress over anything ever again because no matter what happens it’s supposed to be that way.
 

Except for torture. Try to imagine what that’s like. Do your own thought experiment. I would set one up here but I’ve been warned for being too graphic  already. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

I mentally chanted “die” to myself as a mantra

This is not good.

Treat yourself with love.

[ryoko]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This is not good.

Treat yourself with love.

Disagree. What he mentioned is a cruder version of something very potent. 

Feeling your own death is a powerful technique. In the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, this is method 28. 

"SUPPOSE YOU ARE GRADUALLY BEING DEPRIVED OF STRENGTH OR OF KNOWLEDGE. AT THE INSTANT OF DEPRIVATION, TRANSCEND"

[diegogomez42]

5 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

@Leo Gura What made me start thinking about this again was I re watched your video about understanding immortality where you said when you die you dissolve into infinite love and it’s the greatest experience oat. In the video you mentioned “don’t get me wrong, if you torture someone to death that’s gonna be hell for them until they die” and very right you are. That’s my problem. That sweet release can be delayed for potentially decades upon decades during which can be unimaginably horrific and nonstop torment. This is currently happening to people. And since god has to experience every possibility, that means more is bound to happen to me and everyone else in every way we haven’t yet underwent. I can’t accept that. 
 

Of course this also means I’ll get to experience every kinky sexual experience my incel ego could ever want, but the weight of suffering to contrast it just isn’t worth it.

If you were to imagine yourself in a prolonged torturous position like you alude to, i would image that the mind in that position would recontextualize itself to be on par with the new situation its in, like i feel like your mind would go into an insanity state that is highly different from the normal conscious state it would otherwise be in, but im just assuming idk. Maybe in the torture your mind trancends pain in a way thats unexpected, only one way to know right? im just trying to have sympathy for a position ive never experienced, so its kind of irrelevent to even relate to a position you dont understand self evidently with your direct awareness.

[Hojo]

@Emotionalmosquito You dont know what they experience from a first person view. They could be flying out of their body. God is infinite but it can also skip the terrible parts if it wants.

[Peo]

Be happy you were not alive during the spanish inquisition. They were really creative with their torture methods, just watch some youtube videos on medieval torture. That shit looks brutal. Like the famous blood eagle torture during the viking era. 

[Ishanga]

As Leo has stated, all things are possible, if Love is possible so is Hate, and if Kindness/Gentleness is possible so is Torture, so the key is that Human Beings have access to Free Will, they can decided absolutely how they want to be within themselves, obviously someone that Tortures another is not in a healthy place and is completely Unconscious of Absolute/God/Love/Bliss, this may be due to many factors, all You can do is gain a High Level of Awareness of Absolute, and know You are this, and then either leave this realm, Body/Mind complex or live here and be the light You want to see, hopefully that Empowers more to do be and do the same!!

[Ishanga]

Also if You Suffer another's Suffering You are adding to the Suffering in this world and it disempowers You tremendously, it may cause You to be bitter, angry, and want revenge which leads to not knowing Absolute or any sort of Spiritual Awakening IMO!

[Vibes]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Emotionalmosquito Well, spiritual Awakening is the solution for you.

@Leo Gura I remember when I was a kid, for some reason (trauma maybe) I started to play in my mind with torture and killing people. Not that I wanted to hurt anyone, just for the imagination of it, the creative ways I could use.

At some point I started to hate torture and specially animal cruelty. Then it became unbearable to even hear about stories like this. It still is unbearable. I can't accept that God would create such beautiful innocent beauty and it being submitted to callousness and lack of love so great that it would feel totally abandoned by God.

I do not want to face any of that, which you said it means to die. But the alternative is to continue to struggle and suffer.

Edited August 29 by Vibes

[Ishanga]

30 minutes ago, Vibes said:

@Leo Gura I remember when I was a kid, for some reason (trauma maybe) I started to play in my mind with torture and killing people. Not that I wanted to hurt anyone, just for the imagination of it, the creative ways I could use.

At some point I started to hate torture and specially animal cruelty. Then it became unbearable to even hear about stories like this. It still is unbearable. I can't accept that God would create such beautiful innocent beauty and it being submitted to callousness and lack of love so great that it would feel totally abandoned by God.

I do not want to face any of that, which you said it means to die. But the alternative is to continue to struggle and suffer.

No, first God is just a representation of Potential, Beauty/Love/Kindness is one sort of Potential and is Life Empowering, Ugliness/Hate/Cruelty is another and it Disempowers Life, as a Human, You can choose how to be, where Your Life Experience sits, in Beauty/Love/Kindness or Ugliness/Hate/Cruelty, this is all based on how Aware/Conscious You are, Low Conscious Ppl (which is the majority in the world today) live via the Ugly/Hate/Cruelty route to various degrees, only a few are high level Awareness and truly Love Life and everything in it which empower Life to happen more that way...

Edited August 29 by Ishanga

[Rafael Thundercat]

Or you can escape torture, while at same time playing as a troll and making a Tribal Chief lose his face in front of his Tribe

 

[Emotionalmosquito]

50 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Or you can escape torture, while at same time playing as a troll and making a Tribal Chief lose his face in front of his Tribe

 

Damn how embarrassing. But it shouldn’t have been. How could he have had any reason to believe something like a skin of steel potion wasn’t possible with the limited knowledge he had? And why wouldn’t they just test it on his arm or leg first?

The main thing i wanna know is why that woman was translating his words to the chief only for him to suddenly start speaking English.