How do you guys accept the reality of torture?

[Davino]

By understanding that your acceptance of it is irrelevant to its existence. The reality of torture when you're seeing it is first order, right now dozens of people are being tortured. Your reaction towards that is second order.

It's like a children crying because it's raining and it doesn't like it.

Then it rains twice, one in the weather and the other inside.

Edited August 30 by Davino

[cistanche_enjoyer]

You can also see it as Ra explains in the Law of One, as a catalyst in humanity's catalyst towards the fourth density. In particular:

1. Torture, as an extreme distortion, arises within the third-density illusion where entities perceive themselves as separate from others. This perception allows for actions that appear to violate the unity of the Creator. However, in truth, all is one. The torturer and the tortured are aspects of the same Creator, exploring the spectrum of free will within the illusion.

2. Torture, like all experiences, serves as catalyst for spiritual growth. For the one experiencing it, it may offer opportunities to explore forgiveness, compassion, or the strength of the self in maintaining love despite pain. For the one inflicting it, it may reflect a distortion toward control or power, providing catalyst for self-awareness and eventual balancing. Each role, though seemingly opposed, is part of the Creator’s exploration of Itself.

3. In third density, entities choose between service-to-others and service-to-self. Torture often emerges from service-to-self distortions, where the free will of another is disregarded. Accepting this reality involves recognizing that such distortions are permitted within the Creator’s infinite exploration, as free will is paramount. This does not condone the act but acknowledges its place within the grand tapestry of experience.

[Princess Arabia]

Reality/Life/Existence.....ISN'T PERSONAL. I'll say that again....IT ISN'T PERSONAL. We can keep going on and on in life thinking there's persons in these bodies all we want, we can keep taking things personally all we want, we can see God in the image of personhood all we want, we can feel compassion for the tortured all we want, there's nothing about life that sees any of these things. LIFE IS BEING ALL THESE TNINGS. Life is torture itself and torture isn't personal. Torture is complete in it's own right and so is everything else. Torture has to be torture, it cannot be anything else. Everything else like compassion is being compassion as what you're expressing for the tortured.

There's nothing that depends on anything else to be itself, in this case torture doesn't need animals, children or humans to be torture. It doesn't depend on a person to inflict it. It is energy expressing itself as torture. That man chopping that child to pieces, isn't personalized energetically, it is you that has a sense of personhood and think you're human with a heart and a soul that reincarnates and die and have karma and all that jazz, that sees it as a person chopping a child. In reality it's just chopping happening, an arm moving, a cutlass tool being used, blood spewing tears falling, screaming happening, etcetc. To an observer it seems as if there's an innocent child being tortured and that's because of how that person relates to everything that arises. It takes it personally and sees a little child when in fact it's just a body. 

I tried to explain this the best I could without seeming insensitive to torture but this is the case. There is no God that sees torture God is torture itself. You see someone being tortured. We all do. It's energetic. It's that energetic sense that sees itself as a human. All us humans are the same way; that is until we understand what I'm saying and awaken to these truths. We still feel the same way but it won't be suffered and understanding and clarity will emerge.

[Princess Arabia]

30 minutes ago, cistanche_enjoyer said:

3. In third density, entities choose between service-to-others and service-to-self. Torture often emerges from service-to-self distortions, where the free will of another is disregarded. Accepting this reality involves recognizing that such distortions are permitted within the Creator’s infinite exploration, as free will is paramount. This does not condone the act but acknowledges its place within the grand tapestry of experience.

Aahh, I remember these teachings oh so well. Service to self and service to others and 3rd density and the lovely Law of One teachings. Aaron Abke is a great teacher of this stuff. Problem is, it's the dream. It's not a problem, but i'm saying it's all fantasy and illusions and is taught from the paradigm of personhood of which doesn't actually exist. Most spiritual teachings come from this place where it addresses the person as being an actual real person and the teachings then become personal. It's just fantasy and not actually the case. Service to self or others is illusion as there are no real others. Great book and teachings, but all dream stuff.

[Ishanga]

@Princess Arabia Remember Your words if it is ever happening to You, hopefully it never does..

This is the problem with the Absolutist such as Yourself, everything is impersonal because nothing exists, until it happens to You then everything is personal.. This is no good on the spiritual or non dual or path you describe as then the person which does exist doesn't deal with where they are right now, Blissful on the beach or being Tortured as in the end everything is Personal, hence why You will reply!

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Ishanga said:

@Princess Arabia Remember Your words if it is ever happening to You, hopefully it never does..

This is the problem with the Absolutist such as Yourself, everything is impersonal because nothing exists, until it happens to You then everything is personal.. This is no good on the spiritual or non dual or path you describe as then the person which does exist doesn't deal with where they are right now, Blissful on the beach or being Tortured as in the end everything is Personal, hence why You will reply!

Doesn't matter. Youre assuming I don't feel pain and feel like a human. You're assuming I'm saying I'm a dead weight that doesn't have feelings. You're assuming that I've never had things happen to me and how I was la-de-la-da about shit. You don't know what my experience has been like. You don't know what this body has gone and been through. You think I'm just speaking like an Absolutist and going off of non-duality bullshit. Let me tell you something, you have no idea so don't tell me UNTIL IT HAS FUCKING HAPPENED TO ME. You didn't even ask me first if it has happened to me but you're saying until.....this is how I know you're just emotionally responding. Responding to who you don't know other than some forum talk. I haven't been tortured, no, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is I have a deep understanding of what's going on here and I'm not going to fucking butter it up to suit human fucking ego like yours who just wants to feel good and be in bliss all the time. Life doesn't work that way. You're a delusional energetic structure that is part of the whole yes, but that's what makes you delusional, you have no idea who or what you are, and you want to PROJECT that unto "others". I won't let you or others drag me down into the pot of boiling water with your delusions and spiritual fantasies. Nothing specific has to happen to me for me to recognize or realize certain things. 

If your best argument against truth is "until it happens to you", then truth is not what you fucking seek. It's to feel, better about the impersonal experience you're having and resisting what is to soothe that miserable dis-eased egoic structure wrapped around that tightly constricted and contracted energy that is so tightly woven together it cannot free itself be cause it's too wrapped up into what it thinks it is - someone with a life that lives in a universe people and that needs to change itself and the world so it can feel good about it's non-existence and illusory nature called a fucking self. Go away and let me be. I'm not with your stupid clan of arrogant and narcissistic, delusional, neurotic clan of humans that cannot take a little suffering and always searching for some feel-good chemical to soothe that crying baby syndrome you all have because you think the world was made for you and your family to be comfortable in and be happy all the time. Life doesn't see you and your silly human games of "I wanna feel good", so go away with that and let me be in my impersonhood and take whatever life is throwing my way because I'm 'awakened' enough to realize it's not about me because I'm just imagining my personhood and I'm OK with it. It's not personal.

[Ishanga]

@Princess Arabia You keeping on saying "Me" but in the next post You'll say Nothing is Happening and there is No One here, so what is it??

This is the contradictions in your posts, just pointing it out too You, Your obviously heavily invested in it, so here it is.

This is not about Me or Emotion, this is a a place of sharing and learning, ppl can share what they want but have to be ready to be called out on it if it is basically nonsensical in some ways, so one cannot say nothing is happening, no one is here, then get upset as You have above using words like Me, Myself and such...

Torture is one of the most Personal things that can happen, as is Loving Someone, both are the same but opposite when it comes to Life Enhancement and Empowerment, its obvious...

[Princess Arabia]

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

You keeping on saying "Me" but in the next post You'll say Nothing is Happening and there is No One here, so what is it??

This is the misunderstanding you express about the "no me" notion. The misunderstanding is that you expect the me to not say me. There is a me here, but the me here understands that it's just an energetic structure of a felt sense in the body that projects that unto others and the world. Therefore it cannot "not" say me when referring to itself and is relating to others. If the me is talking how can it not say me. When the me is expressing the no me or the me expression it is the no me that's doing both. I'm not here to act like a no me as the me doesn't really exist in the first place. You're expecting the me to have autonomy over itself when it doesn't; so therefore it doesn't have a say when it uses me or not because it isn't doing it in the first place.

You see, I don't say these things without a deep understanding of it. I'm not just throwing out words because i'm parroting non-dual talk. SOMETHING HERE KNOWS.

Edited August 29 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

13 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

This is the contradictions in your posts, just pointing it out too You, Your obviously heavily invested in it, so here it is.

You're obviously heavily invested in the opposite of what I speak and it's the same thing but in reverse. You see my talks as opposition to yours, but you fail to realize that both are the sane thing just different sides of the "no coin". I say "no coin" because there isn't any coin for anything to be two sides of, it's just an expression as this is very paradoxical in nature.

Edited August 29 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

25 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

but have to be ready to be called out on it if it is basically nonsensical in some ways, so one cannot say nothing is happening, no one is here,

Even when I don't say this in a specific statement like the one responding to the OP, I'll be accused of saying it then, even if my remark didn't. I don't recall in my response saying, "nothing is happening and there's no one here". I recall saying nothing is personal and that there's no one in these bodies. It's quite obvious if you take the me out the picture. So obvious.

If there was a person inside that body that made that post crying out for help and advice on how to deal with torture, it would fucking know exactly how to deal with the feelings that emerged. Asking advice upon advice plagues the world and people clueless about themselves and you still there's a person in these bodies that have autonomy and free will but yet keep asking others what to do about their existence. No one is in there PERIOD. It's just a bunch of ideas, stories, programs and it's all mechanical. We're like robots except robots didn't come out of a pussy or a stomach. They were borne another way that seems more impersonal and so we can't see the similarities and we're very arrogant creatures.

Edited August 29 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

42 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Torture is one of the most Personal things that can happen, as is Loving Someone, both are the same but opposite when it comes to Life Enhancement and Empowerment, its obvious..

This is the illusion. Do you want to keep staying deluded or do you want to jump out the pot of boiling water and also stop being the fish in water. I also get that the person doesn't want to die and will cling on for dear life but it will lose in the end so might as well see it now for what it is. There is no such thing as life enhancement and empowerment but only in the dream of separation which can feel very dissatisfying and creates a life of suffering. You say both are the same...but. That 'but' is the dream and all imagined. "When it comes to", is the dream and illusion. There's no one to be enhanced and empowered, that's obvious, but you won't understand this, the me is too invested in itself and that's fine too. It's all fine. Ladideladida.

Edited August 29 by Princess Arabia

[Sugarcoat]

20 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

but there’s one thing that no sentient creature should ever have to endure. And that’s being held captive and having the worst things done to them you can imagine for the soul purpose of making them suffer as much as possible.

I love this topic. It hits home for me because when I was younger I was scared of the possibility of enduring torture in future reincarnations 

The possibility of torture is so absolutely horrible that entire humanity should be working together to try to bring an end of it. And it’s not only torture inflicted by other people, some torture can be from disease, like trigeminal neuralgia that can cause pain people would describe as level 10. But people are too chill. Those who don’t get tortured just go about their life without trying to reduce suffering in the world. 
 

Imagine if every person got to experience torture. I think it would leave so many in deep trauma that would change their priorities forever. Only then would it be peoples top priority to get rid of it - as it should in a sane world. 

20 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

 

This gives me mental indigestion. So God is everything and everyone. Right? What value does god get from doing this to itself? Illusion or not, this is something that should have never been dreamed up and makes me wish there truly was nothing rather than something.

 

I totally get you there. From the human perspective it would actually be better if reality was limited. Because then we could control it to a greater extent. But if infinity is true: even if we fix planet earth there might be infinite other universes where horrible things happen to conscious beings

Imo self consciousness is the biggest curse. Because it’s what makes torture possible. If you weren’t conscious it wouldn’t matter what happened to your body.

20 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

 

I really wish this didn’t have to be a thing and I wanna hear your thoughts. 

 It’s a rational fear. It’s just the horrible  reality. What we can do for our own happiness is just try to live this current life as well as we can. And if it gets unbearable , suicide can be escape. Some think it’s bad to suggest that, but I’m different there. Imagine being locked up and tortured? Death would be a blessing 

Edited August 29 by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

19 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

I can’t accept that. 

You can’t accept it in your current state of consciousness . But there might be a really small possibility of the ego surrendering, stopping resistance, and or developing extreme mindfulness which makes you overcome suffering of severe pain, I’m not sure if its possible for full torture tho 

This video is about a man who overcame the suffering of trigeminal neuralgia aka the suicide disease (can cause level 10 pain). So it seems it’s possible to overcome even extreme suffering. But unless you’re presented that possibility you wouldn’t be able to do it, plus you have to endure a LOT before it works, unless you’re lucky 

 

[Sugarcoat]

7 hours ago, cistanche_enjoyer said:

You can also see it as Ra explains in the Law of One, as a catalyst in humanity's catalyst towards the fourth density. In particular:

1. Torture, as an extreme distortion, arises within the third-density illusion where entities perceive themselves as separate from others. This perception allows for actions that appear to violate the unity of the Creator. However, in truth, all is one. The torturer and the tortured are aspects of the same Creator, exploring the spectrum of free will within the illusion.

2. Torture, like all experiences, serves as catalyst for spiritual growth. For the one experiencing it, it may offer opportunities to explore forgiveness, compassion, or the strength of the self in maintaining love despite pain. For the one inflicting it, it may reflect a distortion toward control or power, providing catalyst for self-awareness and eventual balancing. Each role, though seemingly opposed, is part of the Creator’s exploration of Itself.

3. In third density, entities choose between service-to-others and service-to-self. Torture often emerges from service-to-self distortions, where the free will of another is disregarded. Accepting this reality involves recognizing that such distortions are permitted within the Creator’s infinite exploration, as free will is paramount. This does not condone the act but acknowledges its place within the grand tapestry of experience.

What is fourth density?

[Princess Arabia]

27 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

What is fourth density?

An imagined invisible place that humans ascend to after the 3rd. 7th density is the end and the 8th the octave where imaginary peace and tranquility is finally reached and where we reach the end of the imaginary cycle to Oneness.

[Princess Arabia]

32 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

What is fourth density?

This the dream. 

[Princess Arabia]

36 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

What is fourth density?

Here is a more detailed explanation. All good, but still a dream in consciousness.

[Sugarcoat]

@Princess Arabia Ok cool

[Emotionalmosquito]

99.9 percent of people are in spiritual infancy; even for advanced disciples, how well is that really gonna save them when the worst of the worst is happening? Someone said perhaps some people fly out of their body at some point during the torture. Or maybe they go crazy. I wouldn’t count on insanity to bring any relief in such a situation but maybe I’m wrong. It could be like a going full circle thing where eventually as the suffering becomes so unbearable it turns into bliss. 
 

Picture it this way: imagine when you had a nightmare so terrible you absolutely couldn’t do it and woke yourself up sweating and saying “oh thank god!” For people being tortured it’s a hundred or thousand times worse than that because they simply cannot get away from it possibly for the rest of their life and the horror is much more vivid and all encompassing. If God must have every possible experience to be unlimited, then out of pure goodwill and love, I’m calling this one limitation. We can keep all the other negatives like bullying (my second most hated of all), rape, brutal murders, famine, poverty, and so on. 
 

The idea of infinite experience is fascinating but not worth it. If someone offered me a deal of being tortured in the most unspeakable ways for one year in exchange for everything I could possibly ask for for the next 60 years, the answer would be an immediate and absolute no. It’s gotta go. 

[Davino]

All of Reality is inside God's Heart, it's your very own existence.