Anti human spirituality

[Mmartinez28]

@Breakingthewall hey I’m new to this forum, just wondering the only primary foundational absolute truths insights are the enlightenment insights presented in the many facets of awakening enlightenment video of Leo Gura right? Any other views on consciousness not presented on the facets of awakening insights is not considered absolute truth primary foundational insight ? The view that you can zoom forever in consciousness is considered a view not considered primary foundational absolute truth insight? Leo Gura said that I’m not conscious of certain views on consciousness like zooming forever does that necessarily mean that I’m not conscious of the views as being absolute truth? 

Edited 17 hours ago by Mmartinez28

[Wilhelm44]

34 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

There are many people who have a broken psychological structure. For example, me. As I see it, this is caused, among other things, by weak parents. Weak parents can be narcissistic, addicted, abusive, suicidal, depressed, etc. When this is your reality, your psyche automatically covers this up in order to survive as a functioning human. This is the main objective of the psyche when it's forming. Once this structure solidifies, it constantly vibrates with an anxious vibration, since it's not aligned with reality. This is massive today. There are countless approaches to fix, improve, and ease this constant suffering, but in my experience, nothing really works. Because once your structure is broken at the core of your psyche, there is a lack. This is dangerous; it can lead to toxic relationships, addictions, and general misery, even to hellish levels.

In my experience, there is only one real solution: the complete rupture of your psychological structure and its opening to your total nature. Once opened, it progressively restructures itself, changing completely. It's not something subtle or light, but total. A progressive equalization begins, an alignment of your structural lines with the flow of reality, becoming more and more precise, which progressively decreases anxiety and opens your perspective without limits

Yes, we internalized the ways we were treated as children in order to survive, and replay those traumas in various situations today, not only because those unprocessed emotions are still stuck in the nervous system, but also because we unknowingly associate the shitty ways we were treated with love.

I liked the way you described the only real solution, thank you.

 

[SOUL]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

This is the objective of real spirituality. 

Again that is YOUR objective of spirituality and it isn't the only spirituality that can be.

Mine isn't as concerned with analyzing abstractions, I just be present. The only time I even think about my 'spirituality' is when I would try to explain it to someone else, like on here. Otherwise, it's simple. I don't give it much thought unless something arises on it's own from the subconscious and then I just watch it pass on by. Years of doing that has my subconscious a pretty quiet creature, too. It just chills.

You seem to think that having an intricate belief structure that explains every perception in excruciating complication is the only way to express spirituality.  Then going out into the world pushing your perception of spirituality onto others and calling other people's perception that doesn't match your own 'wrong'. Kinda weird.

I know this forum is filled with lots of people doing it, this doesn't make it 'right' and others 'wrong'. It isn't the only way...no matter how much you want it to be.

[Breakingthewall]

18 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Again that is YOUR objective of spirituality and it isn't the only spirituality that can be.

Mine isn't as concerned with analyzing abstractions, I just be present. The only time I even think about my 'spirituality' is when I would try to explain it to someone else, like on here. Otherwise, it's simple. I don't give it much thought unless something arises on it's own from the subconscious and then I just watch it pass on by. Years of doing that has my subconscious a pretty quiet creature, too. It just chills.

You seem to think that having an intricate belief structure that explains every perception in excruciating complication is the only way to express spirituality.  Then going out into the world pushing your perception of spirituality onto others and calling other people's perception that doesn't match your own 'wrong'. Kinda weird.

I know this forum is filled with lots of people doing it, this doesn't make it 'right' and others 'wrong'. It isn't the only way...no matter how much you want it to be.

Maybe I didn't explain well, Let me put it this way: the goal of spirituality is to break through our limited perspective and exist in an unlimited one. When I say an approach is wrong, it's when it claims its perspective is unlimited when it's limited.

[Breakingthewall]

38 minutes ago, Mmartinez28 said:

@Breakingthewall hey I’m new to this forum, just wondering the only primary foundational absolute truths insights are the enlightenment insights presented in the many facets of awakening enlightenment video of Leo Gura right? Any other views on consciousness not presented on the facets of awakening insights is not considered absolute truth primary foundational insight ? The view that you can zoom forever in consciousness is considered a view not considered primary foundational absolute truth insight? 

From my perspective there are only two possibilities: limited or unlimited. This doesn't mean that if you break through the limitation and constantly operate without limits, you're a Buddha or something like that. It means that you perceive yourself without limits, as flow and as essence. "Perceiving" is the same as "being", since there are no limits between one and the other. You clearly understand your immortality, since it's absolutely impossible for there to be a limit like death. From this perspective, your perception of everything graduallychanges , becoming fluid and no longer static. You start perceiving the synchronicity in everything. This is how I see it. I suppose there are other ways of seeing it

Edited 17 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Mmartinez28]

@Breakingthewall I don’t understand all I was asking if the only absolute truths insights were in his video the many facets of awakening enlightenment. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Mmartinez28 said:

@Breakingthewall I don’t understand all I was asking if the only absolute truths insights were in his video the many facets of awakening enlightenment. 

I don't remember. I guess that they could be infinite facets of anything 

[SOUL]

7 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Maybe I didn't explain well, Let me put it this way: the goal of spirituality is to break through our limited perspective and exist in an unlimited one. When I say an approach is wrong, it's when it claims its perspective is unlimited when it's limited.

You can keep explaining the same thing over and over I'm not unaware of your perspective but what is inexplicable is how you think your way is the only right way.

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, SOUL said:

You can keep explaining the same thing over and over I'm not unaware of your perspective but what is inexplicable is how you think your way is the only right way.

I explained you, let's see now:

I'm not talking about a "way", there can be many ways, but only one goal. It's for example like saying that the only correct medicine is curing the patient, not making him sick or giving them placebo. Maybe for someone medicine is making people sick and giving them placebo,but it's not correct. It's not medicine. 

The goal of spirituality is becoming unlimited. This is the starting point. Then, life is spirituality. Any other thing is false spirituality. 

Then if you set limits, like denying the self , etc , you are in the wrong path, because lack of understanding about what are you trying to do. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

The goal of spirituality is truth. Everything else that occurs is a by-product: healing, comfort, belonging, hope, transcendence.

'Unlimited' 'open' - these may be synonyms for it - but lead to confusion. As is evidenced by this thread. It is an understanding you have come to, but seems to be a frame others stumble over. 

Curious @Breakingthewall - do you consider truth to be anti-human spirituality?

 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

The goal of spirituality is truth. Everything else that occurs is a by-product: healing, comfort, belonging, hope, transcendence.

'Unlimited' 'open' - these may be synonyms for it - but lead to confusion. As is evidenced by this thread. It is an understanding you have come to, but seems to be a frame others stumble over. 

Curious @Breakingthewall - do you consider truth to be anti-human spirituality?

 

 

 

Depending of what is truth for you. What is? 

For me truth is the absolute, that is the unlimited, that is what we are , your ultimate nature. Then I would agree. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Breakingthewall  100% agree

Is it any spirituality that you perceive as ignoring emotion as anti-human spirituality?

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Breakingthewall  100% agree

Is it any spirituality that you perceive as ignoring emotion as anti-human spirituality?

 

Yes , most of spirituality comes from Buddhism and advaita Vedanta and deny emotions as maya, searching a state of equanimity and peace that they perceive as authentic.

Denying a part of human nature they are limiting it, with the result of closure. 

[zazen]

Great post @Breakingthewall

Spiritualists elevate the essence of the formless (consciousness) and deny the emergence of form (constructs) which come from that formless essence. Non-duality doesn't mean no duality or that form isn't as real, it's just not all that's real.

Could be semantics but I'd say organised religion typically denies human nature (instincts, original sin) while spiritual bypassing denies human nurture (conditioning, constructs) which try to buffer human nature. Hence the hippie, relativist, all is love orientation that indulges human nature and emotion at the expense of its consequences for society and structure. The parallel of this in religion is the puritanical, all is divine law and order orientation that suppresses human nature and suffocates the soul in order to structure and stabilize society.

Both are de-humanizing in their own way and incomplete.

Man is man but more than just man . Done wrong: religions tend to deny what you are (animal nature, the creature), spiritualism denies what you are becoming (through conditioning, ego, constructs and culture).

False religion denies the creature (biology, hardware, nature), false spirituality denies the character (ego, construct / software, nurture).

Man is a creature by birth, becomes a character by conditioning, and is a consciousness in essence that is under, over and in all the above.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by zazen

[Breakingthewall]

@zazen 

Spirituality says: Form is maya, formlessness is real. Therefore, thought and emotions must cease, and so form ceases, and only reality remains. The reality is that there is always form, with or without thought. Formlessness does not exist, since existence is relative change or form. So what is achieved by seeking silence is exchanging a noisy form for a silent one, which is considered formless. That is, one facet of form is nullified in favor of another, when both are essentially the same. Thus, you remain lost in form, closed to the total by denying a facetz 

[Ishanga]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes , most of spirituality comes from Buddhism and advaita Vedanta and deny emotions as maya, searching a state of equanimity and peace that they perceive as authentic.

Denying a part of human nature they are limiting it, with the result of closure. 

There is no denying maya or illusion in a true spiritual system, it is just the system reveals maya too You, as well the point behind equanimity, peace and Blissful states being established is not the goal of the system either, its just the foundation.  Its much easier to realize Your UnLimitedness when in at the minimum Your in peaceful states of experience than being in Depressive or Anxious states, its pretty simple..

Most of what You talk & share about is True, its just a matter of How does One Realize this for themselves?? 

Like anything that Humans have created or found out over the span of our existence, sooner or later it gets organized, its the same here, now there's lots of scams going on in every field of exploration of Human nature, no different in Spirituality, but there are some real ones around too, its just a matter of finding that works for You..

Edited 58 minutes ago by Ishanga