Debunking Solipsism

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

@Leo Gura

 

Leo often says things like, 'No one is awake more than I am. No one on this forum is awake.'

 

 

He hasn't said that in a while I think he's matured past that point.  It's like saying hey "I'm stronger than you so go sit down".  Being a bully leaves you in a very lonely place.   So I think he's bullying days are over and he has become too conscious for that.  At least I hope so.  Besides..proving he's more conscious than dream characters really can't be that fulfilling.

But what's your take on Solipsism itself. What direct realizations have you had (or awakenings - where are you on the spiritual path to discovering what is true) and if you haven't had any then what is your take on the ontological structure of reality based on contimplation.. .do you believe it is material or made of mind? Since we are having a discussion I'd just like to get a baseline or where you stand on certain metaphysical poiints.  Thanks in advance !

 

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

The most annoying thing to me is the Realization of Nothingness, is identical to the Realization of Infinity. Why in the hell do these humans keep thinking that they are human doing this work. Once you realize Nothingness...you realize that division is literally impossible so nothing can be outside of you. The most important thing that needs to be dropped is this belief that you are human. 

You are nothingness imagining that you are human, not the other way around. I swear majority of this forum has not realized nothingness. When I realized it, it hit me in the face so hard I realized division was impossible and that was the only illusion done. 

Yes.  It began with no self.  Then nothingness.  But I think nothingness was the most shocking.  

[Mmartinez28]

@OBEler well he’s never explicitly presented the views as primary insights as of yet I don’t see it anywhere. Maybe he has special knowledge and the first human in history to have discovered new insights beyond Advaita Vedanta. He sure does need acknowledgement from other spiritual traditions for his discoveries. 

Edited 16 hours ago by Mmartinez28

[OBEler]

@Mmartinez28 I think you misunderstand the whole thing. We are right now discussing his insights and our own. What exactly does it matter if we discuss insights he didn't have in this one video listed. That video was years ago. It's not actual. Also you should not see his insights as fixed they can change.

Edited 16 hours ago by OBEler

[ExploringReality]

I have realized absolute solipsism. I have realized that there are no others. There is only God.

Edited 16 hours ago by ExploringReality

[Mmartinez28]

@OBEler what I’m saying my point is don’t categorized views as insights that Leo Gura never explicitly presented as insights. 

Edited 15 hours ago by Mmartinez28

[OBEler]

@Razard86 with the help of Chatgpt4 I answer to you. Please read exactly where the issue ist. Please stay open minded, don't skip with your head. I try to tell you something . I hope with Chatgpt4 you understand my position finally:

 

I see where you're coming from. You're speaking from a radical nondual solipsistic paradigm where only direct experience exists, and everything else is imagination. I get that – and I respect the inner logic of it.

But here’s the thing: just because something is not within my current experience doesn't logically imply it cannot exist. That would be conflating epistemology with ontology.

You're saying: “If you can't confirm it, it's just a belief.”
True – I can't confirm it. But not being able to confirm something doesn't mean it's false or non-existent. It simply means: I don't know.

I prefer to stay in that space of radical not-knowing rather than collapsing everything into the assumption that I am the only reality. That, too, is just a belief – unless proven.

I'm not denying the possibility that I am the only God and you are not conscious only my perspective exists. But I’m open to the possibility that other Gods might exist too – just outside the reach of my current conscious dream (by the way Leo did that too, I don't know his actual view on that).

So the difference is: I don’t claim it must be true. I hold open the mystery. You close the mystery with total certainty.

Edited 15 hours ago by OBEler

[Someone here]

Is this the only place on the internet where people argue 24/7 about whether other people are conscious? 

Guys, go outside.

But if you want the bottom line though..if you are truly god then yes nonduality on steroids turns into solipsism. Truth can't help but be solipsistic.  It's not totally Clear in my mind yet ..but it's one of these two possibilities:

1- no one exists or conscious but you.

2- everyone are conscious but still everyone are you .

And there is really not much difference. Its all one self talking to itself .

[ExploringReality]

16 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Razard86 with the help of Chatgpt4 I answer to you. Please read exactly where the issue ist. Please stay open minded, don't skip with your head. I try to tell you something . I hope with Chatgpt4 you understand my position finally:

 

I see where you're coming from. You're speaking from a radical nondual solipsistic paradigm where only direct experience exists, and everything else is imagination. I get that – and I respect the inner logic of it.

But here’s the thing: just because something is not within my current experience doesn't logically imply it cannot exist. That would be conflating epistemology with ontology.

You're saying: “If you can't confirm it, it's just a belief.”
True – I can't confirm it. But not being able to confirm something doesn't mean it's false or non-existent. It simply means: I don't know.

I prefer to stay in that space of radical not-knowing rather than collapsing everything into the assumption that I am the only reality. That, too, is just a belief – unless proven.

I'm not denying the possibility that I am the only God and you are not conscious only my perspective exists. But I’m open to the possibility that other Gods might exist too – just outside the reach of my current conscious dream.

So the difference is: I don’t claim it must be true. I hold open the mystery. You close the mystery with total certainty.

Good stuff

[Inliytened1]

16 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

According solipsism Einstein never existed, it's only an idea in your mind that you are creating to make this dream more real. If he have existed, he would be "other". Then saying that maybe he awak

Exactly.  But learn to shift between the Absolute and the relative. 

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Exactly.  But learn to shift between the Absolute and the relative. 

Then Einstein has his own experience? Or he hasn't? What solipsism means? If say that means that he hasn't 

Edited 9 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Inliytened1I wonder if solipsism takes into account the likely infinite spectrum of relative planes of existence. It is "there, as well as here" that God "experiences Himself." Very little is written or spoken about this, as if it were New Age fantasies. Perhaps because few people explore these areas. And it's worth it. It truly liberates us from our sick anthropocentrism.

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

These are pretty bold statements that aren’t very open-ended or exploratory 😅

1) I am always exploring no matter what I say. You should know this.

2) From your POV what I say doesn't really matter because you have to explore regardless to find your own answers. No matter what I say you still have to find your own truth.

I say certain things from my POV but that doesn't mean it is true for you. It also doesn't mean that my view won't evolve in the future -- it usually evolves.

Just in general, whenever humans say anything it is only true for them at that time, not forever. This is the case even if they don't realize it or say it. Everyone always speaks from their present view of reality and that view always evolves. Even an enlightened person's view evolves. So you should never take human words as absolutes.

This is pretty obvious basic stuff that you should already know without me explicating it for you.

My views evolve a lot. I would rather be evolved than consistently stuck.

Edited 7 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Kuba Powiertowski]

By the way, anthropocentrism is a veritable fortress of separated identification, full of blind corridors, rooms full of distorting mirrors and halls of self-admiration.

[Wilhelm44]

@Leo Gura   With regards to Infinity Gods you said that these are Infinitely Sovereign Minds permanently separated from each other, with no way to connect. Please can you just explain a bit as to how this would still be solipsism ? 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Please can you just explain a bit as to how this would still be solipsism ?

It's an expanded notion of solipsism. You first realize the absoluteness of your own mind. Then you consider a possibility beyond that.

You're trying to grasp Infinity in one shot, and that's just not going to work. You have to experience/realize it in stages. You reach a crazy new level of consciousness and then later you say, "Well, what if I can imagine something even bigger?"

Edited 6 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Wilhelm44]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

It's an expanded notion of solipsism. You first realize the absoluteness of your own mind. Then you consider a possibility beyond that.

You're trying to grasp Infinity in one shot, and that's just not going to work. You have to experience/realize it in stages. You reach a crazy new level of consciousness and then later you say, "Well, what if I can imagine something even bigger?"

Thank you !

[Kuba Powiertowski]

I don't agree with Kastrup on everything, but what he's talking about here is obvious and it's a gigantic trap, a rabbit hole the size of a galactic toilet, which one can and often does fall into when "practicing" not only solipsism.

[Daniel Balan]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My views evolve a lot. I would rather be evolved than consistently stuck.

Sorry for changing the subject but I recently watched your councious politics part 4 episode, and I also read the forum and the blog a lot for the last 4 years, and I am confident in saying that if you were to redo that episode today, its content would be 100% different. In 2019 you were a far leftist compared to your political understandings today. Because I've read the blog consistently, while I was watching the video, I noticed you said leftist things in the video that you went up against and critiqued on your blog years after you published the video in 2019. So yeah, a lot of evolution is happening with your understanding on various subjects 

Edited 4 hours ago by Daniel Balan

[Water by the River]

2 hours ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

I don't agree with Kastrup on everything, but what he's talking about here is obvious and it's a gigantic trap, a rabbit hole the size of a galactic toilet, which one can and often does fall into when "practicing" not only solipsism.

"Because the worst possible outcome is if the monkey remains monkey, but thinks the monkey is God.

That's the worst monkey. It's a monkey that will cause great destruction around it, and then will suffer."

Déjà vu?