Implications of no free will (no responsibility?)

[PurpleTree]

Ok so instead of saying we don’t have free will or we do have free will, can we agree that we can say 

nobody knows whether we have free will or not, nobody knows what any of this is.

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, SOUL said:

No, I've never said anything like this to you before. It was just a joke I was making and we've shared laughs before but then you reply with 'no one' this and that. I said I hope you don't fall into it, not that you already have fallen in.  Kinda weird.

OK, much love. I'm fine regardless and so are you. 

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Ok so instead of saying we don’t have free will or we do have free will, can we agree that we can say 

nobody knows whether we have free will or not, nobody knows what any of this is.

We don't have to agree. Why do you need agreements. This is not a contest, it's a discussion.

[Princess Arabia]

9 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Yep...no joy anymore with you I suppose. I'll keep laughing though, my joy won't be disturbed.

There's no joy without disturbance of joy. Don't fool yourself. I don't need joy from anyone because joy isn't given or taken. Joy just is. Go ahead and own joy all you want, let's see how long you can keep it.

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

We don't have to agree. Why do you need agreements. This is not a contest, it's a discussion.

Would you agree that it’s unknowable though?

[theleelajoker]

20 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Ok so instead of saying we don’t have free will or we do have free will, can we agree that we can say 

nobody knows whether we have free will or not, nobody knows what any of this is.

Nobody knows what anybody wants to know and somebody pretends to know while everybody watches. 

[Princess Arabia]

8 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Would you agree that it’s unknowable though?

Yes. The knowing energy is the seeking energy, and doesn't know anything. It cannot know anything because that will be the end of it, so it constantly seeks to know. 

[Ishanga]

22 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

The very fact that peeing exists, doesn't prove people have the free will to choose to have to pee or not. Let me see you choose to not pee for the rest of your life. Peeing happens. Beliefs happen, understandings happen and opinions happen. One is only different in your eyes from another because the observer made a distinction. No you and there's no free will to decide, decisions happen.

Whether its peeing or any other body or mind function, most ppl live it Compulsively, and this is one of the definitions of Karma, Karma is in play on many levels within a person, peeing is just one bodily function that is happening on autopilot, but there are ppl that do not have to pee if they don't want to, as there are ppl that can slow or even stop their heart beating, or breathing or most any other bodily or mind function, they have total control over those aspects of themselves, but these are masters per say they've spent many years cultivating these abilities.

Most all ppl today live Compulsively, meaning they don't know any of the actions taking places on the 4 levels of Action, Body, Mind, Emotion and Energy, which makes up most of the Human aspect of what we are...

Decisions are not just happening, they are being made, I choose to believe or buy into something completely contrary to what You believe (that no one is here, nothing is happening etc,), I believe there is someone here, billions of someones, and there is lots happening here, your belief (for lack of a better word) is one possibility, you've chosen it for whatever reason, visa versa for what i buy into, those are "Choices" being made, not just happening!!

[Princess Arabia]

14 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Whether its peeing or any other body or mind function, most ppl live it Compulsively, and this is one of the definitions of Karma, Karma is in play on many levels within a person, peeing is just one bodily function that is happening on autopilot, but there are ppl that do not have to pee if they don't want to, as there are ppl that can slow or even stop their heart beating, or breathing or most any other bodily or mind function, they have total control over those aspects of themselves, but these are masters per say they've spent many years cultivating these abilities.

Most all ppl today live Compulsively, meaning they don't know any of the actions taking places on the 4 levels of Action, Body, Mind, Emotion and Energy, which makes up most of the Human aspect of what we are...

Decisions are not just happening, they are being made, I choose to believe or buy into something completely contrary to what You believe (that no one is here, nothing is happening etc,), I believe there is someone here, billions of someones, and there is lots happening here, your belief (for lack of a better word) is one possibility, you've chosen it for whatever reason, visa versa for what i buy into, those are "Choices" being made, not just happening!!

Nothing you've said proved there's someone doing any of that.

When I said there's no one here and the first time you heard that you either believed or not believed. That didn't happen by the click of a button. Factors came into play. Can't say exactly what, but a process happened. It's an illusory process but nevertheless, that's how the person operates, by abstracting, eliminating, processing, etc by the brain and now it believes it's the one doing anything. It's like the glass or the buttons on the blender thinking it's blending anything while it's the blades doing all the work, similar to that. If you were 3yrs old you wouldn't even have a clue about this conversation but because of all the knowledge you've acquired you're using that to process and abstract the sentence, there is no one, and a belief system is being formed or is already formed from a paradigm you've ascribed to. It all has to fall into place. Like a building block. You couldn't change that belief in the squint of an eye even if you wanted to because just as it took a process to form, it will take one to undo. There's no one there doing that, you're like a robot or an AI.

Edited Saturday at 09:48 PM by Princess Arabia

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

Nothing you've said proved there's someone doing any of that.

When I said there's no one here and the first time you heard that you either believed or not believed. That didn't happen by the click of a button. Factors came into play. Can't say exactly what, but a process happened. It's an illusory process but nevertheless, that's how the person operates, by abstracting, eliminating, processing, etc by the brain and now it believes it's the one doing anything. It's like the glass or the buttons on the blender thinking it's blending anything while it's the blades doing all the work, similar to that. If you were 3yrs old you wouldn't even have a clue about this conversation but because of all the knowledge you've acquired you're using that to process and abstract the sentence, there is no one, and a belief system is being formed or is already formed from a paradigm you've ascribed to. It all has to fall into place. Like a building block. You couldn't change that belief in the squint of an eye even if you wanted to because just as it took a process to firm, it will take one to undo. There's no one there doing that, you're like a robot or an AI.

Well like I've always said to You, Your half right in many ways... On one level there is nothing happening here, and no one to have it happen too, that is the Absolute perspective, but there is also the Relative perspective, and right now there are 8 Billion + Relative Perspectives, its important on a certain level, as it the Absolute Perspective, both have their place..

My place in this context is practicality, and functioning on the Human level (not the Being Level), while trying to make life and its situations more healthy, peaceful/blissful and mor empowered so someone can access more Potential in their lives and function more from the Human or Absolute Level...

[Inliytened1]

On 7/31/2025 at 9:34 AM, PurpleTree said:

So not really having free will implies that there’s no real responsibility.

No one’s really responsible for their siblings or parents for other people’s feeling’s or their own feeling’s and anger.

No one’s responsible for their needs and wants, desires and neediness.

No one’s responsible for getting it or not getting it for their intelligence.

No one’s really responsible for being annoying or being annoyed by others.

No one is responsible for their survival and coping mechanisms.

No one’s responsible for their weird, dark, „bad“ evil thoughts.

No one’s responsible for rejecting or abandoning you or others.

Not even Netanyahu is responsible for what he’s doing to Gaza and you’re not responsible for your feeling’s towards him.

 

It’s just the cogwheels of the universe turning, churning, cogwheels of war churning out bodies and such.

I didn't read the whole thread but i am sure I'm not the first to tell you that you are conflating the Absolute with the relative.  

[PurpleTree]

14 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I didn't read the whole thread but i am sure I'm not the first to tell you that you are conflating the Absolute with the relative.  

Yea you’re the first one. Here’s a cookie 🍪 

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

Yea you’re the first one. Here’s a cookie 🍪 

I'm disappointed. 

[Inliytened1]

@PurpleTree we would have a real hard time flipping between spirituality and politics if we were not able to make the shift between Absolute Truth and the dream.  Leo does it seamlessly so you have to be mindful of this

  

[SOUL]

10 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

There's no joy without disturbance of joy. Don't fool yourself. I don't need joy from anyone because joy isn't given or taken. Joy just is. Go ahead and own joy all you want, let's see how long you can keep it.

I didn't say 'give or take' joy, that's your imaginary machinations which reveals your own mindset. I said joy presence. Wow...haha

I live with well being, the manifest expressions of it are peace, joy, contentment and fulfillment, for decades. Your advaita word salad and dualistic paradigm dressing doesn't change the liberation I have realized. Be at peace.

Edited Sunday at 04:19 AM by SOUL

[Princess Arabia]

18 minutes ago, SOUL said:

I didn't say 'give or take' joy, that's your imaginary machinations which reveals your own mindset. I said joy presence. Wow...haha

I live with well being, the manifest expressions of it are peace, joy, contentment and fulfillment, for decades. Your advaita word salad and dualistic paradigm dressing doesn't change the liberation I have realized. Be at peace.

Let's not fight. Love you. Sori for the wrong implications. ❤️Peace to you to. 

[vibv]

14 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yes, it's just this simple. The mind is what wants it to be flamboyant and extreme with lots of fairytales and fantasies. What dream do you think would want to dream of just walking down the road. It wants to be on the beach sipping margaritas and hot chicks on the side. A dream of a lonely stone on the road is quite boring to the mind/dream. So I agree, but I like simplicity.

I don't talk about fairytales & fantasies—while they are very valuable!

I talk about a deep sense of mystery & adventure. It's not about the images, they are merely artful representations. It's about the feelings that are real.

[Princess Arabia]

5 hours ago, vibv said:

I don't talk about fairytales & fantasies—while they are very valuable!

I talk about a deep sense of mystery & adventure. It's not about the images, they are merely artful representations. It's about the feelings that are real.

OK, gotcha.

[SOUL]

10 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Let's not fight. Love you. Sori for the wrong implications. ❤️Peace to you to. 

I appreciate that, thank you, much love to you as well.