Implications of no free will (no responsibility?)

[vibv]

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Well i also had visions and stuff. You could say that the universe has its will and so on if that’s what you’re into. But that’s kind of unknowable imo. Just because you have a vision doesn’t make it true. And this here thread kind of talks about the separate self and responsibility.

Vision means there was an intensely deep sense of intimate Knowing, too.

About responsibility: You can only ever harm yourself, because there's no separation. But it may take time to notice.

The more conscious you are, there more immediate you feel the consequences of your actions.

Edited Saturday at 01:16 PM by vibv

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, vibv said:

Vision means there was an intensely deep sense of intimate Knowing, too.

About responsibility: You can only ever harm yourself, because there's no separation.

"Vision" and "knowing" suggests/implies separation. Which one is it, vision, knowing or no separation. The latter indicates nothing is really happening; hence the dream of knowing is illusory, aka I AM.

[vibv]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

"Vision" and "knowing" suggests/implies separation. Which one is it, vision, knowing or no separation. The latter indicates nothing is really happening; hence the dream of knowing is illusory, aka I AM.

Everything is actually happening, but merely temporary  

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, vibv said:

Everything is actually happening, but merely temporary  

How can everything 'happen'. Happen suggests something that is doing something else. Jumping happens because there's a body that jumped. Laughing happens when a body laughs. How does everything happen. Temporary.....i don't even know how anything happens temporarily.😏

[vibv]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

How can everything 'happen'. Happen suggests something that is doing something else. Jumping happens because there's a body that jumped. Laughing happens when a body laughs. How does everything happen. Temporary.....i don't even know how anything happens temporarily.😏

Because we are beings in time, else we couldn't talk, isn't it so?

The Ultimate is both, outside & inside of time, at the same time. Time is where anything can happen at all, but without time the Ultimate wouldn't be able to experience itself, which makes time enormously precious for the Divine.

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, vibv said:

Because we are beings in time, else we couldn't talk, isn't it so?

The Ultimate is both, outside & inside of time, at the same time. Time is where anything can happen at all, but without time the Ultimate wouldn't be able to experience itself, which makes time enormously precious for the Divine.

OK. So is this conversation then since it couldn't seem to happen without time. The divine is also being time. There's nothing precious for the divine. It's all the Divine. 

[theleelajoker]

For every time someones makes an argument of "there is no one, nothing is happening" I invite this person to participate in such sports. If there is no one, nobody can be hit, right? (If it's free will that this person participates, that's another discussion )

https://www.tiktok.com/@powerslap/video/7467209809897606446?lang=de-DE

The illusion feels real, so while the "no one here" discussion has some advantage re taking a healthy distance from things, I have the feeling one can overdo it and looses its practical value. And that's what this is all about, isn't it? **** right and wrong, let's go what has the most practical value in living a "good" life. 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 02:16 PM by theleelajoker

[Princess Arabia]

8 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

For every time someones makes an argument of "there is no one, nothing is happening" I invite this person to participate in such sports. If there is no one, nobody can be hit, right? (If it's free will that this person participates, that's another discussion )

https://www.tiktok.com/@powerslap/video/7467209809897606446?lang=de-DE

The illusion feels real, so while the "no one here" discussion has some advantage re taking a healthy distance from things, I have the feeling one can overdo it and looses its practical value. And that's what this is all about, isn't it? *** right and wrong, let's go what has the most practical value in living a "good" life. 

 

 

 

All about "value" and "ifs". These words almost always follow when someone opposes the 'no one' statement. Nothing wrong with it, it shows intent and resistance to what is. If there's no value in saying there's 'no one', why say it. My life is all about value, intent and purpose and I'm trying to make it good. Why spoil that. Yet we wonder why we suffer. We don't want truth, we can't handle truth we want fantasies and to live in self-deception. No self, no deception. Yet we look to gurus to straighten up the mess we've created. All a dream with no one inside.

[PurpleTree]

13 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

For every time someones makes an argument of "there is no one, nothing is happening" I invite this person to participate in such sports. If there is no one, nobody can be hit, right? (If it's free will that this person participates, that's another discussion )

https://www.tiktok.com/@powerslap/video/7467209809897606446?lang=de-DE

The illusion feels real, so while the "no one here" discussion has some advantage re taking a healthy distance from things, I have the feeling one can overdo it and looses its practical value. And that's what this is all about, isn't it? *** right and wrong, let's go what has the most practical value in living a "good" life. 

 

 

 

That’s why i think it would be nice to have a (radical) nonduality subforum because these back and forth discussions are quite boring.

[theleelajoker]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

That’s why i think it would be nice to have a (radical) nonduality subforum because these back and forth discussions are quite boring.

+1

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

That’s why i think it would be nice to have a (radical) nonduality subforum because these back and forth discussions are quite boring.

Says the one who started the thread. Jesus, how much more erratic can life be. It wants excitement but creates boredom for itself. Make it make sense. It can't. It's spontaneous and free.

[Princess Arabia]

There's no one in life going around saying 'there's no one' all day every day or in regular conversations. It just happens to come up in a non-dual conversation that fits the bill then we go back to normal life. Who writes about "there is someone here", only @Someone herewho feels the need to say there's someone here...lol. No one says anything about someone being here, sounds good, not 'there's no one', who wants to hear that, doesn't feel good. 

[PurpleTree]

5 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Says the one who started the thread. Jesus, how much more erratic can life be. It wants excitement but creates boredom for itself. Make it make sense. It can't. It's spontaneous and free.

Well it always ends in dumb arguments of people having opposing views and basically speaking different languages. I once went to a „spiritual“ group gathering and it was the same mess although a bit funny. Some talked about angels, some about buddhism, some about self help, some about enlightenment and so on. Spirituality is a too big umbrella term. 

[theleelajoker]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

Well it always ends in dumb arguments of people having opposing views and basically speaking different languages. I once went to a „spiritual“ group gathering and it was the same mess although a bit funny. Some talked about angels, some about buddhism, some about self help, some about enlightenment and so on. Spirituality is a too big umbrella term. 

Back to free will, I think someone already mentioned black and white thinking. 

So maybe we are already in a problem assuming it's one or the other? There is free will vs. there is none. There is "someone" having will, or nobody having anything?

Same as saying there is no one, but the illusion is real?

It's a paradox that's why we should not try to fit it in such language. 

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

Well it always ends in dumb arguments of people having opposing views and basically speaking different languages.

It never ends, only rests. You call it dumb and expect same views and same languages when life's expression is all about variety and seeming differences. The spice of life is what you call dumb because it feels boring to you. You're looking for life to excite you because you're boring all on your own. That's what energy does, it seeks for excitement. How exciting is that. You would be bored stiff if you were nothing too.

[vibv]

50 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

There's nothing precious for the divine. 

Nothing could be further from the truth. It is all so incredibly precious to the Divine that the human mind is not even capable of grasping the significance of it all—what remains is pondering.

In fact, pondering creates significance.

Edited Saturday at 02:24 PM by vibv

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

It never ends, only rests. You call it dumb and expect same views and same languages when life's expression is all about variety and seeming differences. The spice of life is what you call dumb because it feels boring to you. You're looking for life to excite you because you're boring all on your own. That's what energy does, it seeks for excitement. How exciting is that. You would be bored stiff if you were nothing too.

How am i really seeking for excitement though?

[theleelajoker]

13 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

How am i really seeking for excitement though?

 

22 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

It never ends, only rests. You call it dumb and expect same views and same languages when life's expression is all about variety and seeming differences. The spice of life is what you call dumb because it feels boring to you. You're looking for life to excite you because you're boring all on your own. That's what energy does, it seeks for excitement. How exciting is that. You would be bored stiff if you were nothing too.

I think she has point. Isn't just opening the thread a way of doing something, creating action, reaction? You could even go so far that all the suffering is better then nothing, better then being bored to death on your own. 

Excitement is maybe too narrow, I would phrase it as something going on (that makes you feel alive).

[PurpleTree]

12 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

 

I think she has point. Isn't just opening the thread a way of doing something, creating action, reaction? You could even go so far that all the suffering is better then nothing, better then being bored to death on your own. 

Excitement is maybe too narrow, I would phrase it as something going on (that makes you feel alive).

Alriiight. Well there isn’t free will anyway so it doesn’t matter.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

How am i really seeking for excitement though?

By saying it's boring. You made the distinction. Nothing seems boring unless you seek excitement. It's automatic. Goes together.