Is porn a net negative to society?

[LordFall]

That's the first question they debate here and I mean it's kind of hard to make an argument for it apart from short term gratification and escapism. 

I love porn and it's helped me have more hope towards life and existence as otherwise it can be pretty lifeless but perhaps its a training wheel type thing that eventually needs to be let go of for greater connection to life and people. 

[Emerald]

I answered no.

Even though porn is pretty low brow most of the time as the production quality is usually less than stellar, I think society is better because porn exists as it gives a much-needed release valve for the sexual instinct.

I also think the existence of porn and the popularity of it, takes human sexuality out of the Shadows a bit more.

And it helps us recognize sex and sexual desire as common, mundane, and banal... instead of having the illusion that sex/sexual desire is this big bad thing that needs to be suppressed and repressed at all costs.

it helps us let go of our strong polarization between puritanical shame AND utter debauchery where we pendulum swing between the two extremes... and it just enables us to embrace these instincts in a more mundane way where there isn't as much of a binge-and-restrict cycle and shame about the sexual instinct.

So overall, I'd say that porn is a net positive... though I think that there's a lot of unrealized potential when it comes to finding more exalted expressions of human sexuality.

The current state of porn reflect our nascent forays out of the puritanical shame context... but reflects a relatively immature stage of human sexual development 

Edited June 23 by Emerald

[LordFall]

I like your point that's very advanced. It's hard to say I go back and forth. Sexuality is indeed one of the core aspects of humans and its interesting to see how we struggle with it.

What do you make of the neuroscientists point on its adverse effects? Here were the main ones I noted down:

Consistent porn use(more than and apparently including once a month) can lead to
- Anxiety
- Depression
- Porn induced ADHD i.e. lower Productivity
- Erectile Dysfunction
- Dopamine Desensitization
- Higher likelyhood of non Consensual and potentially violent Sex Acts

[RendHeaven]

I voted yes, it is a net negative if you imagined a hypothetical modern porn-free society and imagined the delta between that hypothetical and our real world, all else equal.

But porn was also completely inevitable, so this hypothetical modern porn-free society can only ever be in the imagination.

The moment we discovered photography, we were capturing naked bodies. Before that, we were painting and sculpting them. Porn is a logically necessary consequence of the advent of video and online streaming. There could not have been a world without porn.

I almost see it as pandora's box was deterministically seeded to be opened. That's the situation we find ourselves to be in.

Thus it becomes actually impossible to judge whether it is negative or positive overall, because there's no alternative state of affairs against which to compare it to. Porn is absolute and here to stay. We will NEVER know if we would have been healthier with or without it.

Best we can do going forward is to inoculate the individual, protect our kids and educate our teens. But honestly I don't even see that solution lasting, given that AI porn is on the horizon. I predict vast swathes of the population (men and women alike) will be completely sexless and touchless in a couple decades. And the current porn industry will collapse as well.

Real women will no longer have leverage in the porn industry. An AI hyperreal digital copy of madison beer with inflated tits, indistinguishable from reality, who listens to your every command dynamically and happily simulates getting fucked in the most depraved positions while simultaneously giving you chat therapy (for a monthly subscription ) will drown out anything a real girl posts or produces. If you think this is not coming within 10-20 years, you're a fool

[Deziree]

I voted a net positive. Does it reduce the rate of rapes? Who knows. 

3 hours ago, LordFall said:

Consistent porn use(more than and apparently including once a month) can lead to

- Anxiety
- Depression
- Porn induced ADHD i.e. lower Productivity
- Erectile Dysfunction
- Dopamine Desensitization
- Higher likelyhood of non Consensual and potentially violent Sex Acts

Great points by that neuroscientist. 

Edited June 23 by Deziree

[Natasha Tori Maru]

32 minutes ago, Deziree said:

I voted a net positive. Reduces rate of rapes. Probably. Just my theory. 

This might invite some rage as it implies men have no impulse control - although I do see your point!

I am undecided with this topic.

We have to also consider that some non-consensual themed porn can increase sexual aggression (and aggression in general). 

Edited June 23 by Natasha Tori Maru

[Deziree]

28 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

We have to also consider that some non-consensual themed porn can increase sexual aggression (and aggression in general). 

Maybe. I think the OP meant regular porn. The porn you're referring to might not be consumed by the majority statistically speaking. I didn't vote for that.

Edited June 23 by Deziree

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Deziree said:

Maybe. I think the OP meant regular porn. The porn you're referring to might not be consumed by the majority statistically speaking. I didn't vote for that.

It is always a possibility.

Part of the issue with porn is the need for more and more extreme material when one gets addicted.

I do not know the stats though

[LordFall]

@RendHeaven Yeah hard to say what’s gonna happen in the next decades. I have a more optimistic view though that it’s gonna enable people to live out the relationships they truly want without being stuck in social norms. 
 

Plenty of normal human “intimacy” filled relationships are full of drama, codependency and toxicity so I’m not sure we should always put that on pedestal by default. 

[gettoefl]

Porn is mental lube.

[Majed]

@LordFall I think it is a net positive. It is quite a relief to be able to watch porn and masturbate in peace. 

[Basman]

Society has a bigger problem with escapism in general, which porn falls under, which is to say that too much entertainment is wasting your time and potential long-term. All genuine criticism of porn is of it being escapist in my opinion.

How many guys grew up gaming and severely neglected gaining social skills and milestone experiences?

Escapism is everywhere on the one hand and on the other culture no longer mentors young people about how to engage with life. No teaching men how to be a man or giving meaningful advice.

How many of you have thought that when you have kids you will make sure to properly mentor your child and regulate their internet use? Because you know from living it that having no guidance and unrestricted access to the internet makes your life worse in significant ways.

Just think about it, if you have time to watch too much porn then you probably don't have much going on. That is way more concerning to me than the fact that your watching all of that porn in of itself.

Gaming, porn and escapism are the natural conclusion of a lack of vision and a overly lax culture (and a massive entertainment industry).

[AION]

If you ask coke users they will say coke is a net positive but the wheel of time will disprove them. It is the same with porn users. High bandwidth porn in all of its varieties and extremities is something very new so we should be careful to make big statements but the science about porn says enough. You really have to be thick to not see the elephant in the room. 

Edited Monday at 02:37 PM by AION

[Sugarcoat]

Porn is a byproduct of our society simultaneously as it’s contributing to creating our society.  It’s playing into what is already on people’s minds but also fueling it.  It’s like a wheel.

 

One question I have is do people have the capability to get turned on my their own mind or do they need to view sex externally in the form of porn to get off? Because if they can’t get turned on by their mind only, then it makes sense that porn offers a kind of sexual relief . But also it makes you crave even more, because it’s like it gives you too much dopamine, so you want it even more than if you wouldn’t watch porn at all. So it both gives you relief but can create toxic cycle of needing even more . So dependency 

Edited Monday at 05:08 PM by Sugarcoat

[Schizophonia]

53 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Porn is a byproduct of our society simultaneously as it’s contributing to creating our society.  It’s playing into what is already on people’s minds but also fueling it.  It’s like a wheel.

One question I have is do people have the capability to get turned on my their own mind or do they need to view sex externally in the form of porn to get off? Because if they can’t get turned on by their mind only, then it makes sense that porn offers a kind of sexual relief . But also it makes you crave even more, because it’s like it gives you too much dopamine, so you want it even more than if you wouldn’t watch porn at all. So it both gives you relief but can create toxic cycle of needing even more . So dependency 

Imagination is better but it's less easy.

Just like watching tik tok instead of reading a book.

Edited Monday at 04:30 PM by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

Pornography may not be very ethical, but it doesn't change much.
Maybe it could even prevent more rapes and other sexually related incidents.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, AION said:

If you ask coke users they will say coke is a net positive but the wheel of time will disprove them. It is the same with porn users. High bandwidth porn in all of its varieties and extremities is something very new so we should be careful to make big statements but the science about porn says enough. You really have to be thick to not see the elephant in the room. 

I don't think that's true about most habitual coke users. Probably, most people who are addicted to cocaine or even engage in it recreationally here and there, recognize that it's a societal net negative. They either just feel powerless to it themselves if they're addicted... or for recreational users who only do it occasionally they might feel like, "Sure, it's a net negative. But I only do it once in a while. So, it's fine."

But I don't believe that very many coke users would claim that it's a net positive for society, as it's just not the culture around that particular drug. (In contrast, weed culture and psychedelic culture does have this "net positive to society" idea baked into it.)

But with cocaine users, the majority would probably recognize that coke use is a net negative but that they still want to do it or feel attached to it.

And with porn, it seems to be the "Methinks the lady doth protest too much" kind of situation... where heavy porn users are more likely to think about porn very negatively.

It feels like people who don't have a particular problem with porn or just don't watch it or watch it once every blue moon, are just like "Sure, whatever. Porn exists, and it's probably either a net neutral or a slight net positive. Either way, it exists... and that's fine."

But people who have a big issue with porn and a huge attachment to it are like, "Porn is the devil!!! We need to ban it all!!! The fabric of civilization is degrading because of pornographic degeneracy!!!! We need to instate an absolute theocracy to eradicate all porn from the face of the Earth!!"

As they say... a hit dog'll holler.

So, I don't think it's true that regular porn users have a more positive view of porn's impact on society than people who are not regular porn users. 

If you look in the comment section of this video, you'll see lots of people who are extremely anti-porn. And most of them are likely to be heavy porn users themselves... or women who are married to a man with a porn addiction.

[Sugarcoat]

36 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Imagination is better but it's less easy.

Just like watching tik tok instead of reading a book.

I found in my past imagination plus porn watching simultaneously to be the strongest hit. It’s like you watch the porn, while simultaneously adding your touch of fantasy to it that matches what you’re watching. If that makes sense

 

[Someone here]

Before answering this question go figure out what is porn first . I'm not joking . I'm not exaggerating if I said I've watched thousands of porn videos. 

enough nonsense. Consider this..most of the pornstars in this filthy industry start off as poor people and they can't afford for living...they are forced to do porn because they need money. They don't like their jobs..they don't enjoy the weird sexual acts (anal for example)..they actually feel physical pain and they get raped and gangraped and they feel depressed. Most of them are hardcore drug addicts and alcohol addicts..beacuse they live a miserable life..but they need to pay the bills.
Porn usually presents women as objects..pieces of meat to get off to. No intimacy or love or human connections ..just robotic sexual acts .the camera angles of most pornos zoom in women's body parts..as if they are objects. This is inhuman and disrespectful .porn is the most disrespectful and evil thing towards women in the history of humanity.
I made a thread you can find it in the off topic section..basically porn includes endless novelty and you can pretty much find a video or a picture of someone doing anything you want..all kinds of weird sexual fetishes you could imagine or couldn't imagine..that fucks with people on so many levels ...that affects your sexuality ...Your sense of morality..your sense of reality itself.

Porn is destructive for the actors on it.. and for the user..porn is one of the biggest mistakes of humanity and should be vanished and DESTROYED ..otherwise we are fucked as individuals and as society . What would motivate the next generation to get married and reproduce when they have porn ?!..studies say that the rates of marriage are decreasing and the rates of divorce are increasing since the internet resolution ..can you guess why?..
 

[Basman]

Porn is largely a sexual fantasy. It's hardly realistic depending on what you watch.