Atheist to New Age to Jesus

[Santiago Ram]

My Path was:

 Child - Fundamental Catholic

Adolescent - Hardcore New Ager / Non duality (used to deny Christ)

Now - Catholic / Non duality (Im GOD…Christ Is Me, This, Now)

Edited Friday at 06:01 PM by Santiago Ram

[UnbornTao]

10 hours ago, Santiago Ram said:

Well, Jesús Is the Way

Ay ay ay, no mames, wey. 

[Santiago Ram]

@UnbornTao Jajaja, ahuevo que SÍ.

Edited Friday at 07:58 PM by Santiago Ram

[UnbornTao]

1 minute ago, Santiago Ram said:

@UnbornTao Jajaja, ahuevo.

[kbone]

On 6/13/2025 at 4:19 AM, Grateful Dead said:

Yes.

1- Lol yeah you know, once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right  

2- Yes, the process feels very much like becoming conscious and letting go. But I would describe it more as a process of forgetting illusions and remembering the truth, as the Course frames it.

3- I can try but it will sound crazy lol. Shortly after I began reading the Course, I had like a paranormal experience, in which Jesus introduced himself to me, and a kind of inner dialogue began. At first, I honestly thought I was going psychotic. But my doubts mostly faded as time went on and he told me things about the “outside world” that turned out to be true every time. Then also Miracles started to happened through me regulary, which had a direct impact on the people around me. Also I got answers to most of the questions I had and was shown things I needed/wanted to see, like what seemed to be past lifes etc. I also received specific instructions for deepening my awakening, and they worked. Like what I used to reach mostly through psychedelics or intense meditation became natural and normal.

4- However, I still had doubts about who I was really in contact with, and part of me still thought that maybe I was just crazy and imagining it all (which is true in a way). So eventually, he revealed to me that he is like a reflection of my higher self, and that I just wasn't quite ready to accept that yet. And to some degree, I still haven't.

5- Another user of this forum(@puporing), who was sadly banned by Leo, claims to have completely merged with the mind of Jesus. Although I am still skeptical of such claims, I can no longer dismiss them based on my own experiences.

6- I've come to see Christ as our true Self, the shared identity beyond the ego. Jesus, as a man, remembered this completely. He rejoined the awareness of Christ fully, and now he lives from that awareness. He remains in that consciousness and, in my experience, tries to lead me and also everyone else back to it.

7- I think Jesus was saying that he realized what was being communicated to them in their sacred law, and that they could realize it too, based on the very law they claimed to believe in.

8- Ah yes… it’s been a long, strange trip. And now, I’ve kind of settled down, enjoying the stillness of my nature.

9- Dude, finally another one here who appreciates the Grateful Dead.

1- When someone is open enough and 'ready', who knows what will emerge. Life is a trip, indeed.  You do NOT sound like the everyday type of follower of Jesus Christ... coming across as a little blasphemous at times, if I do say so myself, hehe. I've worked within a missionary organizations, and what you've shared might cause quite a stir, or at least a 'proper steering' you back into the fold.

2- Do you actually forget the illusions, or do you just see through their falsity, wich informs the mind to just let them go? I tend express the journey 'toward' Truth as via negativa in which beliefs and conditioned 'truths' are transcended, leading to a higher order clarity. After all, just like in any True/False test, the statement is either entirely true, or it's false.

3- Thank you for sharing. Have you looked into the phenomena of channeling? Even schools of psychology often refer to it as a tapping into a higher order of thinking and/or sense of self. It's been a while, so don't quote me on that.... check on it yourself if interested. Start clarifying the questions you want to ask and in order of the depth you want to pursue. See what happens.

4- Doubts are ALWAYS an aspect of mind's understanding. That's the nature of duality; not good, not bad.... just an aspect of its functioning.

5- What did you find interesting, doubtful, or in alignment with your own takes (thus far) in @puporing 's take? 

6- So Jesus was no different than any other 'person'? I am always interested in trying to intuit the non-dual aspects of different systems, and then juxtapose what is seen as potentially at odds with the consensus trance of its 'believers' versus those that might actually 'know' something.... like you're alluding to here.

7- Please square this with #3, as you never mentioned Jesus/Christ in that paragraph.

8- Great to hear you've found peace, GD. Sounds like it may have been hard earned.

9- I used to pick out and play a rendition of 'Friend of the Devil' that sent an audience of 2 wild (Disclsimer: One of them liked how I used her name instead of 'Anne Marie', hehe). A majority of the songs I play have at least something related to or alludes to the journey, appreciation of awakening, transcendence, and/or non-dual awareness. For example, I contemplated the power of forgiveness in 'Friend of the Devil', as in how I see it, the hardest forgiveness come by is the forgiveness of oneself. The deepest and most authentic forgiveness doesn't seem to be able to come from the mind... doubt always rears its head as part of that endeavor. That's why 'conversions' must also be authentic, or it's just more like a new coat of paint.

What you've expressed is more authentic and honest. Thanks for sharing, man.

Peacely.....

[Oppositionless]

Jesus teaches that you are evil

[Santiago Ram]

1 hour ago, Oppositionless said:

Jesus teaches that you are evil

Well you are

[BringBackBeige]

I think what's going on with these people is that they bring in so much fluff from new age practices that it ends up actually obscuring spirituality and causes them to live unconsciously. When they realize this, instead of stripping away the fluff, they see Christianity and how simple it is and just dump what they've learned and switch rather than trying to integrate another set of spiritual teachings into their "spiritual stack". 

There's definitely a lot of appealing things about Christianity, so I haven't been surprised that it's rebounding in popularity in pop culture (I saw Joe Rogan is going to church now). However, personally, I was raised Christian, so I've already had the experience of getting so deep into religion that it obscures spirituality, so I don't think I'd have any interest in dropping everything and "come back to the lord". 

Edited Monday at 09:57 PM by BringBackBeige

[Sergione]

On 10/06/2025 at 8:42 AM, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it obvious that the truth path is just truth?

If you want truth, just seek truth!

Cut out the middle-men.

It should be equally obvious that truth is not a human nor anything humans invented.

You can't get truth by believing anything nor anyone.

Hey Leo, what up, i would love to hear your response on this.

The proper Christian claim is that Jesus (and only him) is God, there's no way neither you nor anyone else can be. 
It's ontologically impossible given that we are created beings while God is uncreated. 
Jesus is the only bridge to close the gap, you can't do it by yourself. 

In the gospel of john he says "I am the way the truth and the life... no one comes to the father except through me" Which is the opposite of your bio here isn't it?
To a proper christian who knows what he's talking about, saying that you're god means you are deceived. No matter how deep into non duality (and whatever thing beyond that) you went into. The truth expressed in the gospel is that of a personal God, not an impersonal one.
Christ is an actual dude who speaks to you, does things to you, asks you stuff, has preferences, is affected by how you live your life.

Now one might say the gospels are not accurate, got manipulated or that they spoke some high consciousness stuff in low consciousness terms so people misunderstood it because spiral dynamics and what not. These are all valid concerns but it's important we don't dismiss the topic so easily by labeling it as low level spirituality.

Personally, i met several people who had their life transformed by this incorporeal but everpresent dude. They received healings, found spouses with whom they got a happy marriage (which used to be a massive issue before), found a better direction in life and had several miracles happening to them. 

This doesn't just apply to red people turn blue (some cases of which i know) but to normal people who didn't know anything about him, started praying and had this strong external influence take over their lives.

This happens also to people who were deep into spirituality at various levels. 

You can check the books "youre mine" by sister anastasia and "the gurus, the young and elder paisios". Both authors explain how they were deep into buddhism, non duality, sometimes spiritism, hinduism, yoga (properly done to achieve enlightenment, not the retarded way) and found that at the core of ALL of them there is a demonic deception.
You can also check the books by Seraphim Rose, who was a student of Alan Watts who tried many of the eastern disciplines to find Truth to then become and orthodox monk.

The christian God is "holy", meaning he's separate from creation. The monks who experience him (yes he's male) directly say that basically all the christian cilches are true. They're not retarded, they're not blue people using blue language and projecting blueness on it, they mean what thehy say knowing what they are talking about and come to totally different conclusions than the ones you came to.
Turns out also that the devil and demons are real, actual entities with an agenda and agency over us humans, not just projections of our psyche.

So my questions for you are

1) How did you falsify the enightenment experiences you had against the possibility of being deceived by malevolent entities?
I'm interested because i had many awakenings and was balls deep into inner work and healing, but stopped because it turns out it can be very dangerous.

2) how do you explain christian saints and monks, even recent ones, coming to radically different conclusions than yours? and if you don't know about them how about the people who claim to have been saved out the new age (which includes every eastern practice and outlook on things that you tried and preached and psychedelics even used in the most authentic and shamanic way) by jesus who often shows up outta nowhere when called in the moments of need and operates miracles?

3) From the way you speak i get the impression you never properly got into christianity, am i wrong? did you ever research it and test it out?
Set aside american evangelicals who are often very ignorant and unsofisticated. Did you watch testimonies of people having direct experiences with christ? read books by monks? 
On the surface christianity looks very confused and even barbaric, but the core is a surprise apparently.

I think it would be worthwile to investigate. if you were wrong about everything you'd want to know right?
If you're still right and can falsify christianity at the core I'd be very interested in hearing how you do it, so far i could not.

If you're interested you can check the books i told you above. 

You can also check testimonies, just look for new age to jesus, buddhism to jesus, spirituality to jesus etc. you'll find all sorts of peple converting for the same reasons.

Steven Bancarz uses you as an example to explain why meditation is dangerous, There are clips from your older videos in this one.

Hope this lands for you, have me know what you think please. 

Thank you

[Breakingthewall]

Christianity is an excellent explanation of real human mysticism. The bleeding heart of Christ, the acceptance of pain that opens your heart and shows that in it is the totality.

Reality seen from three perspectives: form, substance, and the dance of infinite interconnected forms.

The original sin of the ego's energetic structure, configured in the eons that enclose you.

Absolute love, which is the total, since love is equivalent to infinity, since it is total, and in the totality is everything, it's absolutely full and that is love. 

Edited Monday at 11:07 PM by Breakingthewall

[Oppositionless]

3 hours ago, Santiago Ram said:

Well you are

Indeed we are all evil, that is one of the things Jesus was right about 

[Jodistrict]

Vance Boelter preaching the gospel of christ.

 

[kbone]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Christianity is an excellent explanation of real human mysticism. The bleeding heart of Christ, the acceptance of pain that opens your heart and shows that in it is the totality.

Reality seen from three perspectives: form, substance, and the dance of infinite interconnected forms.

The original sin of the ego's energetic structure, configured in the eons that enclose you.

Absolute love, which is the total, since love is equivalent to infinity, since it is total, and in the totality is everything, it's absolutely full and that is love. 

Yes.

The story, as it is told, is not so much about how it is more-often-than-not expressed and believed. It is a story about how a sellf-identified peep, lost in their delusion, walks away from all of the cultural and familial conditioned baggage (a spin on Jesus' "Lost Years"), has a full on Realization (Self/Truth ----> out of the cave), and then comes back to society (into the lion's lair - the cave) to tell everyone.

It is the story of a journey of SELF discovery that anyone can take. The only question is, do they have the willingness to stick it through (i.e., it is demanding) and the self-honesty (i.e., to transcend the egoic and existential boundaries that are indicative of the mind's conditioned structure).

This is what the Greeks referred to: Truth (wisdom- path of jnani in Vedanta)) /  Beauty/Love (beloved- path of devotion in Vedanta)   / ,,,,, the Good. While Christianity may have some deeps roots in Judaism, it's conception and/or structure was also heavily influenced by Hellenic Neoplatonic thought of the times. Even then, most do not know just how chaotic those times were and/or how wily and spiritually incorrect many 'practitioners' were at the time, hehe. The Bibles, as they are in their present states, are the outcomes of 1000s upon 1000s of renditions, transcriptions, and interpretations. As such, in the way I see it, one has to gnosis how to read the dang book to flesh out its subtleties. Or maybe its just this mind's propensity to look for the markings pointing toward Truth.

That said, the people of today, are in some ways more 'sophisticated', and that's not necessarily always positive, but at least we're not crucifying, stoning, and banning (at least not literally, hehe).

It seems that using words like God, 'reality', realization(s), consciousness/Consciousness, experience/experiencer... and all the rest, like any words, are liable to hit anything. Let's face it, things like identity, self, appearances, reality, etc are all wrapped up in the mind's associations that comprise its world view. Being clear of it and having it all out front is important to then explore such books in all their majesty.

The word 'gGod' is especially loaded, and it seems to just add unnecessary confusion and/or resistance. The word 'reality' is similar, but every mind thinks they understand what it refers to. The same could be said for 'infinity', but as long as it is understood to defy the mind's conception, it is more likely to hit the mark. Anton's 'cloud analogy' works well as it expresses the mind's delusion.   The confusion is mostly due to the varying  degrees to which the mind's 'episteme is informed by actual gnosis' (i.e., the clarity born of the degree to which Realization informs the mind) ---- or lack thereof.

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:23 AM by kbone

[kbone]

7 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

Vance Boelter preaching the gospel of christ.

 

Speaking of the mind's delusion <ahem> 

[gettoefl]

Jesus was the first one to see the face of God everywhere he looked. It's easy. But you don't want to do it. You love your dream life too much. You are not interested in what this implies: healing yourself forgiving everyone saving the world. Worst of all your life here means nothing and you are nothing. The purpose of being here is to leave here. There is so much better awaiting. Here doesn't get better. All will leave eventually no matter what. Most simply are not ready. God is cool and knows well here was over the moment you had that first wayward thought. The correction was given. The correction is see heaven not hell. That's all Jesus did.

Edited Tuesday at 01:18 PM by gettoefl

[Santiago Ram]

Now I get why people aré put of by Christianity 

You MUST be New Age before Christian, otherwise you take things literally

Anyone wanting to take the Path of Christ seriously must watch Leo Gura first

Edited yesterday at 06:08 AM by Santiago Ram

[kbone]

2 hours ago, Santiago Ram said:

Now I get why people aré put of by Christianity 

You MUST be New Age before Christian, otherwise you take things literally

Anyone wanting to take the Path of Christ seriously must watch Leo Gura first

The comic posted above was just for humor, not meant as a judgment. The context is a 'what if' situation in it's plainest and simplest. If there's any judgment, it is on the people doing the crucifying. We still crucify peeps for their beliefs, just not literally.

It is more likely that peeps are put off by Christianity because of how they view stereotypical Christians (and sometimes because they may have been around fundamentalist Christians for long enough, group all Christians in that stereotype). The same might be said for New Agers, non-dualists, fringy metaphysical groups, etc.

The story of Jesus and/or the Bible as a whole offers context for penetrating the human condition or, if one really wants to get into it, fodder for linguistic forensics. But yes, if just read and believed in its literal sense alone, it quickly devolves into fundamentalism, completely mentally based, brittle, dead, and lacking any insight.

I worked intensely with a community of fundamentalist Christians in Uzbekistan after having woke up, and mostly remained non-judgmentally attuned to their sense of faith, beliefs, actions, and existential 'needs' in order to understand the nuances, similarities, and differences of any belief system. One of the closer friends I made was from South Africa. His stories of fighting behind enemy lines in the Angolan Wars and the coming to the faith furthered my understanding of the value of the 'School of Necessity' required to penetrate the more esoteric aspects of any belief system. Typically what happens is that, in the end, there's a common kernel amongst them. The following Sufi story gives the gist.

______

A Persian, a Turk, an Arab and a Greek were traveling to a distant land when they began arguing over how to spend the single coin they possessed among themselves. All four craved food, but the Persian wanted to spend the coin on angur; the Turk, on uzum; the Arab, on inab; and the Greek, on stafil. The argument became heated as each man insisted on having what he desired.

A linguist passing by overheard their quarrel. “Give the coin to me,” he said. “I undertake to satisfy the desires of all of you.”

Taking the coin, the linguist went to a nearby shop and bought four small bunches of grapes. He then returned to the men and gave them each a bunch.

“This is my angur!” cried the Persian. “But this is what I call uzum,” replied the Turk. “You have bought me my inab,” the Arab said. “No! This in my language is stafil.”

All of a sudden, the men realized that what each of them had desired was in fact the same thing, only they did not know how to express themselves to each other.

_______

The interpretation of the story one comes to depends on one's conscious abilities to shift outside the confines of the literalist mind. To go further into to the forensics of the story, spend time understanding grapes/wine in the Sufi context... it might even shed some light on the blood/wine aspect of the Jesus story. In fact, if one takes the time to see what was happening around the Mediterranean, the Levant, and the extended region at the time the story of Jesus played out, one will see that many of the same discussions and practices talked about here existed then. Even the assumed misunderstanding of the "_____ faith", the "must understand ___ before ___", and the preference for teachers you've mentioned in your post are still playing out, just not verbatim. The expressions typically overlap, weave, conjure insights, and isolate similar core aspects (though with seemingly different names), but the end-all Realization remains the same. It's typically the mind's cause-and-effect stories of HOW/WHY the Realization happened that creates the drama of this faith, that religion, this cause, that effect... forever spinning into more stories/beliefs in the mind. One could say such stories/beliefs are timeless....

Edited yesterday at 08:34 AM by kbone

[Grateful Dead]

On 16.6.2025 at 1:27 AM, kbone said:

You do NOT sound like the everyday type of follower of Jesus Christ... coming across as a little blasphemous at times, if I do say so myself, hehe. I've worked within a missionary organizations, and what you've shared might cause quite a stir, or at least a 'proper steering' you back into the fold.

Haha yeah, I think the historical Jesus himself would cause quite a stir in much of what Christianity has become today. Still, I usually find some good common ground for deeper conversations even with traditional Christians, like those belonging to a church.

On 16.6.2025 at 1:27 AM, kbone said:

2- Do you actually forget the illusions, or do you just see through their falsity, wich informs the mind to just let them go? I tend express the journey 'toward' Truth as via negativa in which beliefs and conditioned 'truths' are transcended, leading to a higher order clarity. After all, just like in any True/False test, the statement is either entirely true, or it's false.

You're right, I don't actively forget the illusions in the sense of erasing them from memory. It’s more that I see through their falsity, and then they simply lose their reality for me. In that way, they naturally fade from awareness. So in a sense, it’s a form of forgetting, but as a result of seeing clearly.

And yes, I also see it very much like a via negativa. It's not about adopting new beliefs, but about letting go of what is false, unlearning rather than learning, until only what is real remains. It’s very simple in that sense: truth is; everything else isn’t.

On 16.6.2025 at 1:27 AM, kbone said:

3- Thank you for sharing. Have you looked into the phenomena of channeling? Even schools of psychology often refer to it as a tapping into a higher order of thinking and/or sense of self. It's been a while, so don't quote me on that.... check on it yourself if interested. Start clarifying the questions you want to ask and in order of the depth you want to pursue. See what happens.

I know A Course in Miracles was channeled, but I haven’t really looked into channeling otherwise. I'll do some research into it, thanks!

On 16.6.2025 at 1:27 AM, kbone said:

4- Doubts are ALWAYS an aspect of mind's understanding. That's the nature of duality; not good, not bad.... just an aspect of its functioning.

Yes, that’s probably true. As long as we’re here and have an ego, doubts will come and go.

On 16.6.2025 at 1:27 AM, kbone said:

5- What did you find interesting, doubtful, or in alignment with your own takes (thus far) in @puporing 's take? 

What I find most interesting is that when I'm in contact with @puporing (they/them), it feels very similar to my inner dialogue with my higher self or Jesus. Our views largely align, maybe even completely, but I have the impression that they understand it on a deeper level. I doubt the claims, which I haven't verified myself, namely that they are in the same state as Jesus and that he has been fully resurrected in them. I can acknowledge it as a possibility, but for my remaining doubts to disappear, it would have to happen to me in the same way.

On 16.6.2025 at 1:27 AM, kbone said:

6- So Jesus was no different than any other 'person'? I am always interested in trying to intuit the non-dual aspects of different systems, and then juxtapose what is seen as potentially at odds with the consensus trance of its 'believers' versus those that might actually 'know' something.... like you're alluding to here.

Yes, the historical Jesus was like everyone else, though probably much more spiritually advanced.

I think it’s easier to worship someone else as the “Son of God” than to accept it about oneself hehe

One theory of mine is that Jesus was the first to truly awaken, and from there began developing the teachings that first appear in the New Testament and later in A Course in Miracles. And it still seems to be evolving.

On 16.6.2025 at 1:27 AM, kbone said:

7- Please square this with #3, as you never mentioned Jesus/Christ in that paragraph.

I’m not sure if I understand you correctly. Do you mean because at first I thought I was speaking to someone else, like Jesus as a teacher and over time I realized that he was actually leading me back to my true Christ Self, which is Him?

On 16.6.2025 at 1:27 AM, kbone said:

8- Great to hear you've found peace, GD. Sounds like it may have been hard earned.

Yeah and it sounds like you have some idea of what it takes to get here

On 16.6.2025 at 1:27 AM, kbone said:

9- I used to pick out and play a rendition of 'Friend of the Devil' that sent an audience of 2 wild (Disclsimer: One of them liked how I used her name instead of 'Anne Marie', hehe). A majority of the songs I play have at least something related to or alludes to the journey, appreciation of awakening, transcendence, and/or non-dual awareness. For example, I contemplated the power of forgiveness in 'Friend of the Devil', as in how I see it, the hardest forgiveness come by is the forgiveness of oneself. The deepest and most authentic forgiveness doesn't seem to be able to come from the mind... doubt always rears its head as part of that endeavor. That's why 'conversions' must also be authentic, or it's just more like a new coat of paint.

Interesting that you mention Friend of the Devil, because lately I often return to that song. It’s one of the few where I haven’t yet fully recognized the deeper wisdom behind it. I like your approach, thanks for sharing. And I completely agree, the deepest forgiveness comes through Grace.

And since you mentioned it, I play in a band and also write my own songs. And honestly, it seems impossible for me to write songs that aren’t somehow related to the path. I wish I could write something less spiritual sometimes lol. Robert Hunter truly had a genius for telling these stories in a way that didn’t seem overtly spiritual.

On 16.6.2025 at 1:27 AM, kbone said:

What you've expressed is more authentic and honest. Thanks for sharing, man.

Thank you, brother. I appreciate your openness, it's always refreshing to have a sincere exchange.

[Breakingthewall]

On 17/6/2025 at 11:56 AM, kbone said:

is the story of a journey of SELF discovery that anyone can take. The only question is, do they have the willingness to stick it through (i.e., it is demanding) and the self-honesty (i.e., to transcend the egoic and existential boundaries that are indicative of the mind's conditioned structure).

For me the history is secondary, the path is irrelevant in Christianism, the point is the evocation to the real thing. The heart of Christ is the heart of the reality and the heart of the reality is the reality. This is enlightenment, and can't be explained in better words. It's not "nothing", or "infinity", of anything, it's your blody heart, there is the absolute. Must be totally clean, totally open. The form is just form, the substance is everything and it's the absolute heart of Christ, that's , your heart. 

[Keryo Koffa]

Some are really into their specific scriptures, going over them, they feel like instruction manuals to me.
With awakening's insights passed through local contexts or metaphors, claiming to already contain all truth.
And each trying to make the other superfluous, out of a survivalists simplicity not to have to go out of one's way.
Imagine for example the possibility of learning Chinese, unless you find an efficient way, you'll probably feel like:
English is universal enough, I bet we can just expand it to encompass the nuance and forego diminishing returns.
Doesn't help that there are countless languages and groups and we're just focused and biased by popularity here.
It's also kinda like school teachers telling you "memorize all the material, and you'll be set" until no longer enough.

Basically "I spawned in this culture-aesthetic comfort zone and expect you to cater to whatever got passed onto me".

Well, all has insights, you can quote Jesus, you can quote Leo, Neo, 5-Meo, Able, Bible, Trible, Qu'ible, Sans'krit.
At some point, they start feeling like stu-dying law and memorizing constitutions, so your burn the Alexandremia.
There's a balance between accumulation and brevity, when performing miracles is easier than to read about them.

Anyway... everything else is true too or something, all perspectives are strange attractor mirrors reflecting their source.