LA Protests

[Daniel Balan]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That only strengthens my point.

Nationalism is a more primordial force than any particular administration's failures.

Trump wanted to build a wall but they didn't let him.

The problem is not just the failures to stop immigration, but that leftists don't even think it's a problem.

Leftists have zero credibility on this issue and the voters feel it in their bones.

You have no solution and you don't even try, you don't even care.

I'd argue that nationalism has nothing to do with it. If all the foreigners that would come into the US & Europe, would have done so legally, if everyone of them had a clean criminal record in their country, if they would behave peacefully and cause no trouble whatsoever, no one would even care. But it is the fact that you no longer feel safe walking with your family on the street at 8 PM on a random weekday afternoon, that's why people have gone the fascist route. It is not nationalism, it is violence, barbarism, hooliganism and vandalizing the property of others that causes people to loathe immigrants. One can either come legally and abide by the law, or he can fuck off to the country of origin and disappear. 

Edited June 11 by Daniel Balan

[Hardkill]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That only strengthens my point.

Nationalism is a more primordial force than any particular administration's failures.

Trump wanted to build a wall but they didn't let him.

The problem is not just the failures to stop immigration, but that leftists don't even think it's a problem.

Leftists have zero credibility on this issue and the voters feel it in their bones.

You have no solution and you don't even try, you don't even care.

I agree with you on the importance of nationalism.

However, during the first six years of his presidency, George W. Bush and the GOP controlled the White House, the House, and the Senate. Similarly, Trump and his party held the full government trifecta during the first two years of his term.

Now, you might say, “Yeah, but the Republicans in the Senate didn’t have the 60 votes needed to overcome the filibuster during any of those years.” That’s true—but Republicans tend to use the power they have more aggressively than Democrats do. They could have chosen to eliminate the filibuster or create a carve-out to push through a strong border security bill, including provisions for building the wall, during any of those years.

By the way, only a few extreme left-wing members of the House have ever supported the idea of open borders or unlimited illegal immigration. In reality, almost every progressive—and certainly every moderate-to-conservative Democrat in Congress—has said they support improving border security and reducing illegal immigration. Even Cenk Uygur and The Young Turks have acknowledged, since around 2022, that excessive illegal immigration has become a serious issue and that Biden was late in responding with tougher border control.

Also, what about the fact that Trump and the Republicans killed that much-needed bipartisan border security bill that Biden and the Democrats tried to pass last year?

Edited June 11 by Hardkill

[Jodistrict]

3 hours ago, Daniel Balan said:

I'd argue that nationalism has nothing to do with it. If all the foreigners that would come into the US & Europe, would have done so legally, if everyone of them had a clean criminal record in their country, if they would behave peacefully and cause no trouble whatsoever, no one would even care. But it is the fact that you no longer feel safe walking with your family on the street at 8 PM on a random weekday afternoon, that's why people have gone the fascist route. It is not nationalism, it is violence, barbarism, hooliganism and vandalizing the property of others that causes people to loathe immigrants. One can either come legally and abide by the law, or he can fuck off to the country of origin and disappear. 

You are repeating right wing propaganda.   These people who are being arrested are hard working people. Last week ICE did a military style raid iin South Park to arrest two dishwashers.   Biden and Obama were also deporting criminals.  The criminals are maybe 1 percent of the immigrant population.  The Internet creates reality.  

Edited June 11 by Jodistrict

[Daniel Balan]

1 hour ago, Jodistrict said:

You are repeating right wing propaganda.   These people who are being arrested are hard working people. Last week ICE did a military style raid iin South Park to arrest two dishwashers.   Biden and Obama were also deporting criminals.  The criminals are maybe 1 percent of the immigrant population.  The Internet creates reality.  

I hate the right wing with passion, and I never consume right wing crap! You can be a hard working person and come to " The West" legally! Who is stopping a hard working person to come legally in the west? Its all RW propaganda until one of these illegals invades your home! The fact that inforcing the law is deemed as rw propaganda speaks volumes about how bullshit the left is when it comes to migration! Had the left not decided to take milions of Syrians and Africans in asylum, the fascist movements that rage across the west may have never have happened. The left is criminally dangerous! 

[PenguinPablo]

@Leo Gura

Yes but rhetoric is straight up racist and dehumanizing. There is no excuse for that. 

One moment they are seeking asylum, and now everything gets torn apart that Trump is back.

I agree it’s not reasonable to let everyone in but these people’s lives are being turned upside because of these bipolar political dynamics.

[kray]

1 minute ago, PenguinPablo said:

@Leo Gura

Yes but rhetoric is straight up racist and dehumanizing. There is no excuse for that. 

One moment they are seeking asylum, and now everything gets torn apart that Trump is back.

I agree it’s not reasonable to let everyone in but these people’s lives are being turned upside because of these bipolar political dynamics.

Yeah, it’s one thing if it’s completely to eliminate illegal immigration….its another to deny asylum for afghan and Syrian refugees who had helped the war effort while at the same time allow white South African “refugees” from a debunked “white genocide”. It’s very clearly racial, and there has to be a limit to all of this. Look I understand the concern of large portions of migrants being military aged men, and I fully understand the concern and worry of the average middle American. But to demonize people who helped our soldiers abroad in the war effort, and then completely deny their asylum status is disingenuous. @Leo Gura you gotta admit that even from a stage orange point of view, there are racial tones to this immigration policy. If we are concerned about illegals, why are we only targeting black and brown migrants, but not white migrants (whom there are many). To me it seems a little fishy….

[Jodistrict]

35 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

I hate the right wing with passion, and I never consume right wing crap! You can be a hard working person and come to " The West" legally! Who is stopping a hard working person to come legally in the west? Its all RW propaganda until one of these illegals invades your home! The fact that inforcing the law is deemed as rw propaganda speaks volumes about how bullshit the left is when it comes to migration! Had the left not decided to take milions of Syrians and Africans in asylum, the fascist movements that rage across the west may have never have happened. The left is criminally dangerous! 

Ok, then it wasn't something you read.  So please tell us your personal experience with an immigrant criminal that has led you to this position.

Edited June 11 by Jodistrict

[gengar]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is hardly a nation on the planet that has worse border enforcement than America. No other nation tolerates such liberal nonsense.

Well, EU countries literally don't have borders, except for the countries on the perimeter. If people are let in at those countries, they can travel to any EU country freely, which caused many problems. That's not worse than the US?
 

[kbone]

6 minutes ago, gengar said:

Well, EU countries literally don't have borders, except for the countries on the perimeter. If people are let in at those countries, they can travel to any EU country freely, which caused many problems. That's not worse than the US?
 

I've been in so many countries where border enforcement is not only worse, it's damn near impossible. The Pakistan/Afghan border comes to mind. I suspect it's even in Merriam-Webster for 'porous', hehe. 

[Daniel Balan]

26 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

Ok, then it wasn't something you read.  So please tell us your personal experience with an immigrant criminal that has led you to this position.

My father has been working in Germany for 15 years! 10 years ago he started complaining about mobs of immigrants that were wrecking havoc for the locals, and 2 years ago he finished work and when he walked to his car a group of Syrians robbed him at knife point, they even took his car, but polizei stopped them and retrieved the car of my dad. Plus I hear my acquaintances that live in the UK and France always complaining that there are stabbings everyday in England caused by them migrants! 

[kbone]

Perspective by AI in the Sky

Crime rates and immigration in the U.S. over the last 20 years.

Key Findings and Data Points:

Overall Trends: Multiple studies and analyses indicate that immigrants, including undocumented immigrants, generally have lower crime rates than native-born Americans. Some research even suggests that increased immigration may be associated with decreased crime rates. 

Historical Data (1980-2022): A comparison of crime and demographic data from 1980 to 2022 showed that as the immigrant share of the population more than doubled (from 6.2% to 13.9%), the total crime rate dropped by 60.4%. 

Incarceration Rates: Immigrants have had lower incarceration rates than the native-born population since at least 1870. [1][3] In 2020, immigrants were reportedly 60% less likely to be incarcerated than U.S.-born individuals. 

Texas Data: Texas, the only state that tracks criminal arrests and convictions by immigration status, has found that immigrants of all legal statuses were arrested at less than half the rate of U.S.-born citizens for violent and drug crimes. 

Recent Data (2017-2022): From 2017 to 2022, the immigrant share of the U.S. population rose, while the national total crime rate dropped by 15.3%. 

Incarceration Rates (2023): In 2023, the incarceration rate for native-born Americans was 1,221 per 100,000, while for illegal immigrants it was 613 per 100,000, and for legal immigrants, it was 319 per 100,000. 

Second Generation: Crime rates tend to rise among second-generation immigrants compared to first-generation immigrants, often approaching the rates of native-born Americans. 

[Miguel1]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am disappointed that I don't see a genuine desire to understand reality here, but instead the defending of political dogmas.

This is not in the spirit of our work or values here.

I've said this many times in the past, but I'm shocked at how much patience you have.

No wonder you used to still go batshit crazy couple years back 

At my level of development, I would also go full-force zen devilry aggro if I was forced to deal with this on daily basis.

Edited June 11 by Miguel1

[Jodistrict]

20 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

My father has been working in Germany for 15 years! 10 years ago he started complaining about mobs of immigrants that were wrecking havoc for the locals, and 2 years ago he finished work and when he walked to his car a group of Syrians robbed him at knife point, they even took his car, but polizei stopped them and retrieved the car of my dad. Plus I hear my acquaintances that live in the UK and France always complaining that there are stabbings everyday in England caused by them migrants! 

OK, fair enough.  Thank you for the clarification.  That is Europe.   Here we are talking about the United States which has a different situation.  Mexicans have always been in California, long before we were born, and alot of these problems stem from a broken immigration system which congress has been unwilling to fix.   Most Mexicans are catholic and have no animosity to the general culture.  They just want to work.  

[kbone]

A brief history via a map for those not aware or may have just been absent that day in 3rd grade (and give a 💩) . 

[Daniel Balan]

47 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

OK, fair enough.  Thank you for the clarification.  That is Europe.   Here we are talking about the United States which has a different situation.  Mexicans have always been in California, long before we were born, and alot of these problems stem from a broken immigration system which congress has been unwilling to fix.   Most Mexicans are catholic and have no animosity to the general culture.  They just want to work.  

Im of the opinion that whoever is violent and destroys property should be deported asap! Regardless if he is a migrant or local! It would free up resources from the prison system! If you attack someone with a knife, you are being stripped of citizenship if you are a local and you are deported asap to a war zone! Regarless if you are a migrant or local, violence and any acts that jeopardize the well being and safety of others should be punished with deportation! Society is far too tolerant with violent devils!

[carterfelder]

On 6/10/2025 at 5:22 PM, PurpleTree said:

who is a bad person to you?

I think it's fair to say that a bad person is someone who consistently causes harm toward others without remorse or taking accountability.

I don't think any of Trump's actions that have been accused of causing significant harm toward others are any worse than harmful actions taken by other presidents.

I'm not saying Trump has never caused significant harm during his presidency, I just struggle to find any solid examples.

I think the media's constant and consistent negative portrayal of Trump, along with the rise of political correctness and woke ideology has made it very easy for many to see Trump as a bad person. I was an anti-Trump "anarchist" until disagreements about gender identity with vegan activists who used to be my friends caused me to question the ideologies I had fallen for. Psychedelics and my father's objective, scientific approach to understanding the world have really helped me understand the value of critical thinking.

 

[Jodistrict]

 

[Leo Gura]

Newsom is the most presidential looking Dem I've ever seen.

He's got the looks and he's got the spine.

Edited June 11 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

On 6/10/2025 at 2:25 PM, Leo Gura said:

Protesting is important. Keeping Trump accountable is important. It just has to be done intelligently and carefully.

Burning Waymo cars for illegal immigrants is not that. This is leftists behaving like lunatics.

I overlooked that post yesterday, but I agree with it. Also, doing things like that—or burning the American flag on camera—is a really bad look politically for the Left and for many Democrats.

[JTL]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am disappointed that I don't see a genuine desire to understand reality here, but instead the defending of political dogmas.

This is not in the spirit of our work or values here.

@Leo Gura Can you explaine what you mean by seeing reality? I often see when we are debating a hot topic it often ends up with two diffrent sides. I have tried eduacte me on this topic and I have to a degree.I used chatgpt and read about this. I cant real see what trump is doing is that extreme with cracking down on illegal immigration , but it is extreme when you see with the lager maga ideology, the racism, the corruption etc.