Trying to Understand the Blackpill

[Miguel1]

@Never_give_up I sympathize with you.

And I know for a fact now that if someone like you were to work on all the inner issues you have, it would take tremenduous work.

Especially when people like you probably don’t have the money to be throwing to therapists, coaches, trauma workers etc. and for years and decades.

When I was in my early 20s, I thought more like @BlessedLion. I truly believed that everyone in dark spaces could with effort, deal and heal their deep inner issues - and we could all live in a beautiful harmony, full of love and selflessness (what drives ENFJs).

Growing up, being in the space for over a decade, coaching people myself, seeing so many people working on themselves for years & decades (yet improve relatively only very little), I have lost hope.

Not going to happen in my lifetime.

I am also quite impatient and ambitious, so I have not been built to sit around and babysit people with slow care. I was built to go out there and conquer.

-

Sorry, I am not exactly sure what I am trying to accomplish with this. On one hand it is to articulate to myself and let the heart breaking feelings out of my system, on the other hand I just wanted to make you feel like I sympathize with you, instead of telling you ”just work hard! You can break out of it, as long as you put in the work!!”

And maybe you can. But maybe it is too late.

At the end of the day, reality is much harsher than what the green hippie fantasies younger me wanted.

[Never_give_up]

@Miguel1thank you for trying to help.

In the end I just have to accept that some things aren't as I like and I just need to do what I like (drawing) and find a way to survive and cure my addictions and problems. I may not accomplish it fully but at least I should try. I hope reincarnation is real , just in case I don't make it in this lifetime . (Having low IQ is the worst though. Low IQ just means I am incapable of doing things that others can do, and generally it means being powerless... ) Anyway, thank you! 

[Lyubov]

I’ve reached the bottom guys. I’ve been there. If you knew how dark it gets. This was before the “pills” took over. Back then there wasn’t a label for me except maybe “loner.” It’s a self fulfilling prophecy of facing extremely challenging and cruel situations in your early years. I lost a parent, faced bullying at school, physical punishment, was criticized and saw myself as worthless. It got extremely dark for me and I retreated into the online worlds of porn, video games and 4chan. This type of belief system separates you so much and you believe you are keeping yourself safe by latching onto a victim mindset and personality. I literally walked through the valley of the shadow of death. I’ve created hell and when I saw what I was doing, I woke up and created heaven instead. I have a reference library, experience, a teaching and awareness that could quite literally heal most incels ages 16+ from the west, in a matter of 3-10 conversations but I haven’t really pursued this as my life purpose nor really refined it enough to take on clients responsibly. When you are out of it you see so clearly and have the ability to show others the way but the world isn’t so receptive to this kind of messaging now. I’m afraid it’s gotten worse and most men want to go deeper into incel-dom. I’m at least glad I got out. I went through the worst over 10 years ago and am now in a deeply fulfilling relationship, where I am planning to propose to her. If anyone is an incel here in the absolute dark, and you need help to get out, DM me. I can go give you the road map and a teaching that will precisely free you from this belief system and expand your consciousness in such a way where you can get on with your life and let all that shit go. 

Edited June 6 by Lyubov

[Lyubov]

13 hours ago, meta_male said:

And if you manage to get your ass out of this shithole it does not give you any applause, no pat on the shoulder, just silence. Hence why they stay in it and never get out.

I never wanted any applause. I just wanted to be happy and live a good life. I don’t expect any special medals or social approval for what I went through. I got something better, freedom and peace. 

[BlessedLion]

2 hours ago, Never_give_up said:

@BlessedLionmaybe I should stop being so bitter about my traumas and just draw and have fun. Thank you for trying to help. Your suggestions and way of thinking is helpful. 

Absolutely! There you go, thanks for being open minded about it too. Interestingly it’s when we stop caring and have fun, life seems to flow more 

All the best, you are loved! ❤️🙏

[BlessedLion]

2 hours ago, Never_give_up said:

end I just have to accept that some things aren't as I like and I just need to do what I like (drawing) and find a way to survive and cure my addictions and problems. I may not accomplish it fully but at least I should try.

There you go. Working towards something higher and doing your best is success in its most real definition. 
 

Use what you’ve got and do your best with it. 
 

Will you become a millionaire Einstein Ladies man? Not likely- but that’s not what true success is. Success is doing your personal best, enjoying the ride, and being proud of yourself. You got this bro 🔥

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Lyubov said:

I’ve reached the bottom guys. I’ve been there. If you knew how dark it gets. This was before the “pills” took over. Back then there wasn’t a label for me except maybe “loner.” It’s a self fulfilling prophecy of facing extremely challenging and cruel situations in your early years. I lost a parent, faced bullying at school, physical punishment, was criticized and saw myself as worthless. It got extremely dark for me and I retreated into the online worlds of porn, video games and 4chan. This type of belief system separates you so much and you believe you are keeping yourself safe by latching onto a victim mindset and personality. I literally walked through the valley of the shadow of death. I’ve created hell and when I saw what I was doing, I woke up and created heaven instead. I have a reference library, experience, a teaching and awareness that could quite literally heal most incels ages 16+ from the west, in a matter of 3-10 conversations but I haven’t really pursued this as my life purpose nor really refined it enough to take on clients responsibly. When you are out of it you see so clearly and have the ability to show others the way but the world isn’t so receptive to this kind of messaging now. I’m afraid it’s gotten worse and most men want to go deeper into incel-dom. I’m at least glad I got out. I went through the worst over 10 years ago and am now in a deeply fulfilling relationship, where I am planning to propose to her. If anyone is an incel here in the absolute dark, and you need help to get out, DM me. I can go give you the road map and a teaching that will precisely free you from this belief system and expand your consciousness in such a way where you can get on with your life and let all that shit go. 

 Conversations alone will not fix incels. They are buried very deeply in a self reinforcing ideology.

I saw a dating coach discuss how he had a blackpill client, who he actually got to have success, but he said whenever they took a break from coaching he would come back insisting the blackpill was true and he’d never succeed (inspite of what he already achieved), he’d then coach him to more success, and the cycle would repeat.

And that guy was not even a bad case compared to others since he was willing to actually listen to advice and try new things, very rare in this group.

They are also prone to biting the hand that feeds them. The whole blackpill movement spawned from forums dedicated to doxxing and harassing guys giving male dating advice. The first incel forum before blackpill and incel were even used as terms got taken down because a PUA they went after was also a lawyer and went after them back.

Another example is the PUA channel playing with fire had a whole saga where some blackpilled guy named Gangstar or something said their online dating advice doesn’t work if you’re ugly, so they did a interview with him and found he was actually relatively handsome but he used horrible photos and refused to make a move on dates, when they tried giving him simple advice he went nuts and spent years harassing them. 
 

Edited June 6 by Raze

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Lyubov said:

I’ve reached the bottom guys. I’ve been there. If you knew how dark it gets. This was before the “pills” took over. Back then there wasn’t a label for me except maybe “loner.” It’s a self fulfilling prophecy of facing extremely challenging and cruel situations in your early years. I lost a parent, faced bullying at school, physical punishment, was criticized and saw myself as worthless. It got extremely dark for me and I retreated into the online worlds of porn, video games and 4chan. This type of belief system separates you so much and you believe you are keeping yourself safe by latching onto a victim mindset and personality. I literally walked through the valley of the shadow of death. I’ve created hell and when I saw what I was doing, I woke up and created heaven instead. I have a reference library, experience, a teaching and awareness that could quite literally heal most incels ages 16+ from the west, in a matter of 3-10 conversations but I haven’t really pursued this as my life purpose nor really refined it enough to take on clients responsibly. When you are out of it you see so clearly and have the ability to show others the way but the world isn’t so receptive to this kind of messaging now. I’m afraid it’s gotten worse and most men want to go deeper into incel-dom. I’m at least glad I got out. I went through the worst over 10 years ago and am now in a deeply fulfilling relationship, where I am planning to propose to her. If anyone is an incel here in the absolute dark, and you need help to get out, DM me. I can go give you the road map and a teaching that will precisely free you from this belief system and expand your consciousness in such a way where you can get on with your life and let all that shit go. 

Any particular insights around getting to the point of wanting to improve? How did you end up realizing you actually wanted to create a beautiful life?

I feel like that's the bottleneck.

If some blackpill / incel wants to improve, that changes everything. But you have to get them to that point first. Otherwise nothing is possible.

[aurum]

4 hours ago, Never_give_up said:

Blackpillers have extremely negative views, and society extremely positive views, but I see more hypocricy in the normie worldview.

What's the biggest hypocrisy in the normie worldview from your perspective?

[aurum]

4 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

Yeah. After reconsidering it I’m probably being a bit too harsh. 
 

I just don’t like the idea of slipping into a victim mentality and using that as a reason to not improve one’s situation. I don’t think the majority of black pillers have some really horrible trauma or life situation, it’s just easy to give up hope or be a victim after being rejected a few times.  
 

But some people have been dealt really tough cards and it’s near impossible to get out of that. 

If you take their stories at face value, some of them say they have never even experienced positive attention from a woman.

My gut reaction is to be skeptical of such stories, because that seems impossible.

But, if we are to understand blackpill, it's necessary to at least temporarily step outside your perspective and be charitable to them. Because whether or not their story is "true", it's still "true" for them.

Imagine you never received positive attention from a woman growing up. Not a genuine smile, not a hug, nothing. 

Are you really just "being a victim" at that point? 

[aurum]

4 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

At the end of the day, reality is much harsher than what the green hippie fantasies younger me wanted.

A good meta-lesson for this thread.

Edited June 7 by aurum

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

At the end of the day, reality is much harsher than what the green hippie fantasies younger me wanted.

Bingo!

[Majed]

@Leo Gura Why don't black pill guys just try out approaching girls ?

I mean some problems are really fixable like getting a girlfriend, it is not impossible or the hardest thing in the world, yet many people create ideologies around it and weird worldviews. 

Edited June 7 by Majed

[Raze]

19 hours ago, aurum said:

But if I could offer you one thing, it wouldn’t be advice. It’d be a night out. A chance to see what’s possible. No guarantees. Just something to test the story you’ve been told.

This is one area I think the advice is damaging, telling someone to “just approach” or “just try” without actually giving them specific advice on what can cause bad reactions, and a path to improve will just result in endless rejection and them doubling down on the blackpill beliefs. 

Edited June 7 by Raze

[aurum]

3 minutes ago, Raze said:

This is one area I think the advice is damaging, telling someone to “just approach” or “just try” without actually giving them specific advice on what can cause bad reactions, and a path to improve will just result in endless rejection and them doubling down on the blackpill beliefs. 

I agree.

In a scenario where they actually agreed to go out, they'd need help. Support if nothing else.

Honestly, just an experience of someone genuinely supporting them could be somewhat healing.

[Lyubov]

3 hours ago, Raze said:

 Conversations alone will not fix incels. They are buried very deeply in a self reinforcing ideology.

I saw a dating coach discuss how he had a blackpill client, who he actually got to have success, but he said whenever they took a break from coaching he would come back insisting the blackpill was true and he’d never succeed (inspite of what he already achieved), he’d then coach him to more success, and the cycle would repeat.

And that guy was not even a bad case compared to others since he was willing to actually listen to advice and try new things, very rare in this group.

They are also prone to biting the hand that feeds them. The whole blackpill movement spawned from forums dedicated to doxxing and harassing guys giving male dating advice. The first incel forum before blackpill and incel were even used as terms got taken down because a PUA they went after was also a lawyer and went after them back.

Another example is the PUA channel playing with fire had a whole saga where some blackpilled guy named Gangstar or something said their online dating advice doesn’t work if you’re ugly, so they did a interview with him and found he was actually relatively handsome but he used horrible photos and refused to make a move on dates, when they tried giving him simple advice he went nuts and spent years harassing them. 
 

I believe they have to want to change. I only put out the offer. I am not putting any energy into going out to solve other people’s problems. The solution is ultimately awakening and self generated love for oneself and a genuine prioritization of wanting to align with truth which is difficult to do if you took the black pill since you are living from lies. 
 

3 hours ago, aurum said:

Any particular insights around getting to the point of wanting to improve? How did you end up realizing you actually wanted to create a beautiful life?

I feel like that's the bottleneck.

If some blackpill / incel wants to improve, that changes everything. But you have to get them to that point first. Otherwise nothing is possible.

I just remember there always being a force within me I stayed connected through this time of my life, indescribable, where even 1% of me believed I was worthy. A candle in the dark. I coped and did the best I could and one thing led to another where I remember having an insight come to me where I really questioned if I was so different and what made it true that I am bad. Since basically what all black pill people are believing is “I am bad.” I’m not sure it’s possible to get anyone to want to change. Maybe I was just blessed to have an epiphany here and there and some stuff to leverage myself. I am stubborn too which is sometimes a good thing if it’s in the right direction. It would have been way harder if I was financially broke or really short or sick through this whole time. I count my blessings. We are given a lot sometimes even through very challenging problems in life. I am glad I am where I am now but those inner child stories are something present sometimes. I’ve found resolution. It’s about accepting that now without forcing. 

[Lyubov]

It’s easier to be an incel now more than ever. For better or worse there is sort of a culturally acceptable mentality where people can sort of do as they want with less social stigma. You have grown men lining up to buy Pokémon cards. During my time stuff like this was stigmatized more and I knew I was headed down a dark path. 

[BlessedLion]

3 hours ago, aurum said:

If you take their stories at face value, some of them say they have never even experienced positive attention from a woman.

My gut reaction is to be skeptical of such stories, because that seems impossible.

But, if we are to understand blackpill, it's necessary to at least temporarily step outside your perspective and be charitable to them. Because whether or not their story is "true", it's still "true" for them.

Imagine you never received positive attention from a woman growing up. Not a genuine smile, not a hug, nothing. 

Are you really just "being a victim" at that point? 

Fine, let’s take that (very questionable) statement to be true. 
 

Okay, so I’m a literal troll who every single woman finds disgusting. 
 

Does that define my worth? Why the obsession with Women? Are there more things to life than sex? 
 

Plenty of people live powerful full lives without much attention from the opposite sex 

 

-Monks who work towards awakening 

-The creator of Pokémon (autistic dude who probably didn’t get any female attention) 

-Nikola Tesla 

-Pretty sure DaVinci was celibate 

 

There are other things to do in life. Maybe the problem is our hyper sexualized society and focus on dating as the be all end all of defining value. 
 

Dont get me wrong, if women were no longer attracted to me in any way I’d be upset, probably suicidal for a while, but I don’t think I’d allow it to send me into some kind of black hole hell

[Emerald]

These are some great points.

It seems like our generation experienced a lot of formative social experiences with dating from an early age.

And it seems like the internet and the pill-cultures have fed into young boys' insecurities in such a way that it holds boys back from having these formative experiences with female peers.

So, the combination of a lack of communal social systems for dating in the early teens (because of how much is done online) AND the pill cultures themselves create a dynamic where the boys stew in the insecurities around approaching girls without the social support and peer pressure to encourage them to move past those insecurities.

It's a lot easier to join a pill movement that validates and vindicates you in your non-action than it is to approach a girl you find attractive.

[aurum]

28 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

Dont get me wrong, if women were no longer attracted to me in any way I’d be upset, probably suicidal for a while, but I don’t think I’d allow it to send me into some kind of black hole hell

But my man, you've already had a life time of validation from women. 

Maybe it wouldn't send you spiraling now, because you're solid. But imagine you didn't have any of the foundation you have.

Even things like emotional resilience and EQ likely have a genetic component to them.

You could have had mental illness, or a mom that tried to kill you growing up.