Are men or women the prize?

[Miguel1]

@aurum @Emerald

Think of it this way:

The man has his life purpose as priority number 1. The woman probably has his husband and family on a higher priority than her life purpose - OR her purpose is the family she creates.

This is the nature of female and male (generally). Males loves to go out and conquer, and to leave a legacy. Women are all about maintaining and investing into relationships, being present to the moment and enjoying Now.

In this way, the woman invests in the relationship more than the man.

I don’t see myself ever putting my significant other over my mission in life. And I don’t think I would be very attracted to a woman who is as ambitious / masculine as I am.

Again, not saying she cannot have her own career, but we don’t necessarily need 2 crazy visionary leaders who are always out there conquering the world.

And the mission is for me and humanity, not just for my significant other - altho she can reap some of the benefits of the rewards of the work. But only if she has put serious work and investment in our relationship.

Makes sense?

Edited June 8 by Miguel1

[aurum]

6 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

@aurum @Emerald

Think of it this way:

The man has his life purpose as priority number 1. The woman probably has his husband and family on a higher priority than her life purpose - OR her purpose is the family she creates.

This is the nature of female and male (generally). Males loves to go out and conquer, and to leave a legacy. Women are all about maintaining and investing into relationships, being present to the moment and enjoying Now.

In this way, the woman invests in the relationship more than the man.

I don’t see myself ever putting my significant other over my mission in life. And I don’t think I would be very attracted to a woman who is as ambitious / masculine as I am.

Again, not saying she cannot have her own career, but we don’t necessarily need 2 crazy visionary leaders who are always out there conquering the world.

And the mission is for me and humanity, not just for my significant other - altho she can reap some of the benefits of the rewards of the work. But only if she has put serious work and investment in our relationship.

Makes sense?

I see your point. Very David Dedia-esque.

It may run the risk of falling into what Emerald is saying, which is leaving the woman in a perpetual state of chasing / anxiety. Depends on how you go about it and what she values in a relationship. 

Emerald is obviously advocating for a certain kind of relationship here. Which maybe you're not interested in.

[AION]

9 minutes ago, aurum said:

I see your point. Very David Dedia-esque.

It may run the risk of falling into what Emerald is saying, which is leaving the woman in a perpetual state of chasing / anxiety. Depends on how you go about it and what she values in a relationship. 

Emerald is obviously advocating for a certain kind of relationship here. Which maybe you're not interested in.

Emerald is advocating a type relationship that would work with her and her type of women. Age plays a role too. Dating mature women is very different than dating a 20 something year old. 

Edited June 8 by AION

[aurum]

14 hours ago, PenguinPablo said:

I guess if you're caught up in power struggle style of relating, sure.

All relationships contain power dynamics.

Better to do them consciously than unconsciously.

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

@aurum @Emerald

Think of it this way:

The man has his life purpose as priority number 1. The woman probably has his husband and family on a higher priority than her life purpose - OR her purpose is the family she creates.

This is the nature of female and male (generally). Males loves to go out and conquer, and to leave a legacy. Women are all about maintaining and investing into relationships, being present to the moment and enjoying Now.

In this way, the woman invests in the relationship more than the man.

I don’t see myself ever putting my significant other over my mission in life. And I don’t think I would be very attracted to a woman who is as ambitious / masculine as I am.

Again, not saying she cannot have her own career, but we don’t necessarily need 2 crazy visionary leaders who are always out there conquering the world.

And the mission is for me and humanity, not just for my significant other - altho she can reap some of the benefits of the rewards of the work. But only if she has put serious work and investment in our relationship.

Makes sense?

Personally, I understand. As someone with a really strong life-purpose myself that I'm working on daily, I need a partner who's not quite as married to their work as I am.

So, I know that guys who have a strong life-purpose are not someone that I'd be a good match to because it's more likely to put me in a wishbone situation, where either he or I will have to sacrifice investment in our purpose for the others' purpose if they end up bringing us in opposite directions.

It's much better to have a dynamic where both support the household, but that one isn't as purpose-driven as the other.

But that's just what I need for my personal relationship dynamic, given the fact that I am a very purpose-driven person and cannot be otherwise without massive amounts of unhappiness and depression. I've been that way since I was about 5 years old, where I'm always aiming for some greater future trajectory which provides a sense that I'm living a meaningful story.

It is a bit more common that the man be the purpose-driven one though. And it makes sense that many purpose-driven men would want a supportive partner who isn's as married to their work.

But making your significant other your "purpose" is not the same as seeing your significant other as the prize.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, AION said:

Emerald is advocating a type relationship that would work with her and her type of women. Age plays a role too. Dating mature women is very different than dating a 20 something year old. 

I preferred this when I was 20 as well.

[AION]

18 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I preferred this when I was 20 as well.

Maturity is not solely related to age. Some people go through a lot and mentally mature faster than others. With mature I didn’t mean physical maturity or age. I noticed that for some reason mentally mature women are always drawn to me although I want to 20 year old baby doll. It is very frustrating but probably there is something about me or perhaps these older women are just easier since as they get older that have this time pressure to land a deal. 

Edited June 8 by AION

[BlessedLion]

On 6/7/2025 at 8:10 PM, Emerald said:

Like I said, this dynamic is subtle and is one that men and women tend to naturally fall into in a long-term relationship.

It's more akin to a husband fixing the sink to help his wife and her appreciating his efforts than it is anything super extreme.

The best partnerships are quite eye-to-eye. But the Masculine/Feminine polarity is there when the man is more of the doer/leader and she is more of receiver/appreciator of his doing.

So, that's what I mean by the woman being the prize and the man being the leader. It's just the Lover and Beloved archetype playing out in subtle ways in a relationship.

But don't imagine anything too crazy or extreme. This has to happen in the context of a relatively equal partnership for it work out well or it won't work out.

But for women in particular, it's really important to avoid pedestalizing the guy... and to not stick around in a relationship where the guy isn't as invested as you are.

Things should either be equal or the guy should invest a bit more that you.

Never stick around with a guy who feels lukewarm about you.

That makes sense, thanks for clarifying

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, AION said:

Maturity is not solely related to age. Some people go through a lot and mentally mature faster than others. With mature I didn’t mean physical maturity or age. I noticed that for some reason mentally mature women are always drawn to me although I want to 20 year old baby doll. It is very frustrating but probably there is something about me or perhaps these older women are just easier since as they get older that have this time pressure to land a deal. 

I don't know about that as a generality. My standards are a lot higher than they were in my early 20s because I've been around the block.

And I've observed that that describes most women who are 30+. And all my female friends' standards for their partners have gone up as they've matured.

Like, when I was 18-20... I could be attracted to guys who had very little going for them if they had long hair, smoked weed, and were in a band as that was the lifestyle that I wanted in my teens and early 20s.

All that was necessary were some common interests in music or in clothing style. 

Nowadays, that would not fly at all... and I would find that quite repulsive.

Yet again, an older woman who's interested in very young men might be particularly immature herself like a Puella Aeternus.

So, I don't doubt that they exist and that you might be approached by them, as there are immature people who exist.

And I know that cougars exist.

Not that you seem interested in these older women, I would just say to be careful if you get involved with them as that can be really negative for the younger person to be involved with a much older person.

Personally, I'm 36, and I couldn't imagine being interested in a guy who's under the age of 30 because they're just not in the same stage of life as I am.

Edited June 9 by Emerald

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, BlessedLion said:

That makes sense, thanks for clarifying

You're welcome.  

[Schizophonia]

On 06/06/2025 at 9:52 PM, Nemra said:

 

It needs a man, but it is not exactly tied to women.

To be honest, it is unclear how I should think it manifests.

What do you mean ?

[AION]

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

I don't know about that as a generality. My standards are a lot higher than they were in my early 20s because I've been around the block.

And I've observed that that describes most women who are 30+. And all my female friends' standards for their partners have gone up as they've matured.

Like, when I was 18-20... I could be attracted to guys who had very little going for them if they had long hair, smoked weed, and were in a band as that was the lifestyle that I wanted in my teens and early 20s.

All that was necessary were some common interests in music or in clothing style. 

Nowadays, that would not fly at all... and I would find that quite repulsive.

Yet again, an older woman who's interested in very young men might be particularly immature herself like a Puella Aeternus.

So, I don't doubt that they exist and that you might be approached by them, as there are immature people who exist.

And I know that cougars exist.

Not that you seem interested in these older women, I would just say to be careful if you get involved with them as that can be really negative for the younger person to be involved with a much older person.

Personally, I'm 36, and I couldn't imagine being interested in a guy who's under the age of 30 because they're just not in the same stage of life as I am.

I’m a Puer Aeternus and the women I attract are usually the female version. Personally I don’t think age and maturity are always in synch. I haven’t dated in my early 20’ies so I’m catching up. And I’m neurodivergent too so that adds another twist. My emotional development takes more time. Mostly because I avoided relationships for such a long time. 

[Emerald]

10 minutes ago, AION said:

I’m a Puer Aeternus and the women I attract are usually the female version. Personally I don’t think age and maturity are always in synch. I haven’t dated in my early 20’ies so I’m catching up. And I’m neurodivergent too so that adds another twist. My emotional development takes more time. Mostly because I avoided relationships for such a long time. 

That does make sense that you'd attract Puellas if that's the case. 

But the advice still stands to be careful with much older partners (especially immature ones), as it's easy for young people to be taken advantage of or controlled by older partners.

Or even if not deliberately, being with a much older partner can cause you to skip out on the developmental phases characteristic of people in their 20s... which also wouldn't be good.

[Nemra]

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

What do you mean ?

@Schizophonia, forget about it.

I was trying to understand what he meant.

But I think you could understand it by thinking about what femininity needs, regardless of the degree of it in each person. The term that Leo made up made me confused about what he was talking about.

Edited June 9 by Nemra

[Raze]

On 6/7/2025 at 8:50 PM, Emerald said:

This is not what I mean by the woman being the prize. That's just describing a man being needy and attached to the woman, which are two different things. 

Of course, if a man is desperate and pedestalizing the woman... she's not going to like that.

So, it's not about what happens in the first few months of a relationship before her feelings for him are established. That's where the miscommunication is coming from because the guys on this forum tend to be thinking of the initial attraction phase of dating.

This is what works best after the woman has already established feelings and desire to be in a relationship with the guy and there is already a sexual relationship that's been established.

So, it's a longer-running dynamic than that and doesn't have very much to do with the initial attraction phase.

And this is a subtle dynamic that you can see in many couples, as it tends to be a common pattern that men and women fall into.

Maybe in theory, but generally the more you want something and the more you invest in it the more needy and attached you become.

As a woman you would also find yourself more clingy or nervous around a guy you really like as opposed to one you only mildly like.

If you spend lots of time and investment in a man you would find yourself being more prone to jealousy related to him opposed to a man you just met and haven’t invested in.

it’s the same for guys.

Edited June 9 by Raze

[meta_male]

On 5.6.2025 at 5:34 PM, Tenebroso said:

The most attractive men, high status men are the prize, they have the most power and leverage because they are so scarce.

What's scarce is authentic men who don't parrot other men.

On 6.6.2025 at 0:16 AM, Emerald said:

If you want a committed relationship that is stable and can last a long time, only pursue women that you truly see as the prize.

And lose yourself in the process. That shit doesn't work for most men. Nobody needs to see themselves as the prize or think of another human being as the prize.

 

 

[Leo Gura]

See all as God and everything works itself out.

Edited June 10 by Leo Gura

[AION]

There is great truth in the Siren mythology. All these stories contain great wisdom but people want to reinvent the wheel and think they are a smart ass. 

Edited June 10 by AION

[Past-Philosopher-562]

@Leo Gura A Question for leo . given that you have spoken about being an intp and the nature of it . what do you think is the suitable way to go about personal development . i feel like traditional advice from self help culture doesn't work and i have wasted a lot of time trying to implement them . is there a tool that you have seen is natural to you and help you meet your values .

[AION]

This guy is slam dunking truth on feminism so hard lmao