Why People Leave The Left

[something_else]

2 minutes ago, SwiftQuill said:

Seen these same arguments hundreds of times before and refuted all of them many times.

It should be easy enough for you to do it again then.

Quote

Woke mental gymnastics. Fallacious reasoning, hypocritical reasoning, ignores asymmetries in other industries (like how women dominate ok psychology or the beauty industry), ignores all the points I made, anti-meriticratic, misuse of statistics.

I'd appreciate it if you could explicitly point out the:

• mental gymnastics
• fallacies
• hypocrisy
• the points you made which I ignored (this one confuses me the most because you posted a video and an article, you didn't make any points)
• anti-meritocracy
• misuse of statistics

Because I'm struggling to see any of those in my post.

I talked briefly about asymmetries in other industries. In female dominated fields there should be a drive to hire more men, for the same reason. There usually is to some extent, especially in healthcare for example, although it's not as intense as it is in fields like tech.

Quote

White men privileged. White men have easy life. Everyone else victim.

This is just a strawman. I did not say white men all have an easy life. Men have plenty of challenges in life. On average white men have an easier time building a career than white women, though.

[SwiftQuill]

[something_else]

7 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Ok so you don’t know the difference between woke ideology and traditional left. It’s fine don’t worry you can ask gpt. But next time maybe don’t be so smug.

Jesus dude, I missed your reply. Calm down 

I just assumed that by referring to 'the wokes' you were talking about left leaning people in general. That's typically how the word 'woke' is used nowadays. I guess what you meant by it was extremely left people, bordering on hippies—and sure—I guess they are not particularly focused on practical solutions. I can't say I've met many of these people though. Usually left leaning people of all degrees are very much aware of the issues you listed.

[Joshe]

3 minutes ago, something_else said:

I can't say I've met many of these people though.

That's because they comprise a very small percentage of the population, yet we spend 50% or more of our political discussion bandwidth on them. 

[Joshe]

6 minutes ago, SwiftQuill said:

Bro, this is the whacked out SJW, which might be like 2% of the population. 

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, something_else said:

Jesus dude, I missed your reply. Calm down 

I just assumed that by referring to 'the wokes' you were talking about left leaning people in general. That's typically how the word 'woke' is used nowadays. I guess what you meant by it was extremely left people, bordering on hippies—and sure—I guess they are not particularly focused on practical solutions. I can't say I've met many of these people though. Usually left leaning people of all degrees are very much aware of the issues you listed.

No i don’t mean hippies i mean woke ideology. And you thinking i‘m thinking all left when i was talking about workers rights and all is silly. And i will never calm down. Never 😡 since i was rejected from art school i‘ve been angry.

[something_else]

4 minutes ago, Joshe said:

That's because they comprise a very small percentage of the population, yet we spend 50% or more of our political discussion bandwidth on them. 

What issues that these people care about do we focus 50% of our political bandwidth on?

[Nemra]

@Leo Gura, currently, do you consider yourself leftist?

Or have you made up a new category for yourself? 😁

[PurpleTree]

5 minutes ago, Joshe said:

That's because they comprise a very small percentage of the population, yet we spend 50% or more of our political discussion bandwidth on them. 

So do extremist right or extremist muslims. It’s always the fringes f ing it all up for the others.

[Alexop]

Biggest problems with the far left:

1. Endless whining and insulting conservatives, which leads to more conservattivism, racism and sexism.

2. Lack of understanding of power dynamics. They don't get that hierarchies are part of life and they will always be. Not undertstanding this leads to frustrations, bad decisions, bad proposals etc.

3. Too much progress at once. Good luck convincing religious fanatics that gender disphoria is not a mental illness.

4. Inefficient and dumb climate action. They should push for green innovation instead of endless whining and telling people to consume less or some nonsense like that.

5. Lack of masculine integration. WIhout rationalism/systems thinking/dettachment from empathy, there is no chance for success in today's world.

6. Lack of understanding of how men work. Men are not women.

7.  Us vs Them mentality and arrogance. We are always right and those who are not with us are against us. You are either  a gender studies dummy or a Red Pill macho. Not understanding that there is a THIRD, better alternative.

8. Not focusing on fixing wealth inequality. Instead they focus on dividing the society even more with identity politics.

9. Not understanding that you cannot just take all the possible refugees in the world in your country.

 

In developed countries with many political parties, there is the center-left alternative: the social-democrats, which are a more mature verion of the left. Less whining, more careful progress, more in touch with power dynamics and systems thinking.

 

Edited Tuesday at 06:48 PM by Alexop

[SwiftQuill]

3 minutes ago, Alexop said:

Biggest problems with the far left:

1. Endless whining and insulting conservatives, which leads to more conservattivism, racism and sexism.

2. Lack of understanding of power dynamics. They don't get that hierarchies are part of life and they will always be. Not undertstanding this leads to frustrations, bad decisions, bad proposals etc.

3. Too much progress at once. Good luck convincing religious fanatics that gender disphoria is not a mental illness.

4. Inefficient and dumb climate action. They should push for green innovation istead of endless whining and telling people to consume less or some nonsense like that.

5. Lack of masculine integration. WIhout rationalism/systems thinking/dettachment from empathy, there is no chance for success in today's world.

6. Lack of understanding of how men work. Men are not women.

7.  Us vs Them mentality. We are always right and those who are not with us are against US. Either are you a gender studies dummy or you are a Red Pill macho. Not understanding that there is a THIRD, better alternative.

8. Not focusing on fixing wealth inequality. Instead they focus on dividing the society even more with identity politics.

 

In developed countries with many political parties, there is the center-left alternative: the social-democrats, which are a more mature verion of the left. Less whining, more careful progress, more in touch with power dynamics and system thinking.

 

Good summary.

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Leo Gura, currently, do you consider yourself leftist?

Or have you made up a new category for yourself? 😁

My views are mostly left.

But obviously I don't follow any group or social movement.

[Hojo]

People leave the left because they are policing other peoples bodies to the extreme. Life is supposed to be about expression they are pushing the negative expressions in the ground and say you cannot say this. Your body NEEDS to say it. They are too woke its like a work of Satan to silence God from expression.

Edited Tuesday at 07:05 PM by Hojo

[PurpleTree]

I don’t know if in Europe people are leaving the left. I don’t think so really.

[Alexop]

8 minutes ago, Hojo said:

People leave the left because they are policing other peoples bodies to the extreme. Life is supposed to be about expression they are pushing the negative expressions in the ground and say you cannot say this. Your body NEEDS to say it. They are too woke its like a work of Satan to silence God from expression.

Basic unconsnciousness. This was done by Red and Blue people for thousands of years. We had the masculine opression, now we have the feminine opression.

[Alexop]

32 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I don’t know if in Europe people are leaving the left. I don’t think so really.

They don't want to leave the left, but they long for a more mature left. In Sweden I finally observe that the social-democrats are coming with this alterantive, but in many countries, that is still being waited for. 

In most Western EU you have:

-the far-right: immigrants are the problem narrative sponsored by the rich in order to shift the public focus away from them

-the center-right neoliberalism, which is also helping the rich getting richer and making society even shittier.

-the center-left: labour/social-democrats who try to play safe and compromise a lot with neoliberals

-the far-left woke, which we know already how they work.

I even observe a movement against pride, which is unheard of. Maybe parents had enough of their kids indentifying with ambulances instead of focusing on their studies. 

Edited Tuesday at 07:46 PM by Alexop

[PurpleTree]

11 minutes ago, Alexop said:

They don't want to leave the left, but they long for a more mature left. In Sweden I finally observe that the social-democrats are coming with this alterantive, but in many countries, that is still being waited for. 

I even observe a movement against pride, which is unheard of. Maybe parents had enough of their kids indentifying with ambulances instead of focusing on their studies.

Yea who knows. I guess for example in Germany left parties did lose quite a bunch, like the greens lost a lot. Sahra Wagenknecht lost also i think. And more people voted far right AFD. In Spain there’s a left government. Italy a right and so on.

[Alexop]

7 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Yea who knows. I guess for example in Germany left parties did lose quite a bunch, like the greens lost a lot. Sahra Wagenknecht lost also i think. And more people voted far right AFD. In Spain there’s a left government. Italy a right and so on.

Lots of immigrants results in stronger far-right. Stupid climate policies results in weaker green party. Opression of expression leads to weaker far-left. It is an FU from the public, something like: "You don't change our country as you like and you don't tell us what to believe and what products to consume."

Edited Tuesday at 07:58 PM by Alexop

[Daniel Balan]

@Alexop Counter-intuitively, The utopian climate polices that have a big impact on why a lot of people are losing their jobs, thus bringing the far right into power at the next election cycle, undoing every green climate policy that was adopted prior, deregulating business to the point the business can rape the earth of its resources, thus making the climate problems even worse than before the left took those utopian climate policies. In the end the good intentions of the left, Exploded back in their face because the citizenry felt more of the bad consequences than the good that was done to the environment. My opinion is that the EU is doing a very poor job regarding the Green deal. To me this is total bullshit. We either do this climate action as a whole planet together or we don't. What The EU is doing right now is making sure that they will lose all the elections in the near future. Even if the whole EU would go totally Green deal, China doesn't give a fuck, The USA now doesn't give a fuck, 90% of the globe doesn't give a fuck about environmentalism. 

Edited Tuesday at 08:13 PM by Daniel Balan

[PurpleTree]

I think the left will gain in the US after Trump and MAGA. But i hope the real realistic left and not this woke.