Martin Ball says he's not solipsistic

[Yeah Yeah]

@Sugarcoat 🤣

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

Well, yeah, the mistake is to dismiss it and call it bullshit when you actually dindn't do the work.

One need to be honest and open to the idea that it might actually be the case, because it has been talked about by various sages and cultures. But, it might no be your reality yet, so honesty is the first step.

Open mindedness is a good trait yes

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Yeah Yeah said:

@Eskilon by various sages and whatever? You're still squeezing the juice all you can bro so you are really denying my own independent experience? How about I drop to my knees and worship you as the dreamer and since by your logic I'm st a side prop surely ... Oh great dreamer please dream me to be more attractive to the women and have more money 

You’re funny. 

[Eskilon]

3 minutes ago, Yeah Yeah said:

so you are really denying my own independent experience?

The only reason you feel you have an "independent experience" is because your state of consciousness is not very high.

Claims about solipisism are claims made when you are incredible conscious.

Edited Monday at 08:28 PM by Eskilon

[Yeah Yeah]

@Eskilon what the actual f did you just say bro how the f are you going to tell someone you don't even know that they lack consciousness below your own that is so so so messed up and offensive what the f haha no way you must have forgotten to drink your coffee this morning sounds like you consciousness is lower than my own 

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

The only reason you feel you have an "independent experience" is because your state of consciousness is not very high.

Claims about solipisism are claims made when you are incredible conscious.

How do you define solipsism?  Because if it means “I’m the only self conscious experience “ then I don’t see how that requires higher consciousness 

[Yeah Yeah]

@Eskilon way to attack someone making better claims than your own - sound to me this solipsism idea you cling to for superiority has become almost religious to the point you'll tear down those outside it to protect your insecurities about the unknown or truth 

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Yeah Yeah said:

haha no way you must have forgotten to drink your coffee this morning

I can’t with your silliness 😭😭😂😂

Edited Monday at 08:31 PM by Sugarcoat

[Yeah Yeah]

@Sugarcoat good point because he's talking shmack if he thinks he is superior to my own experience right this moment and I'm just his dream material so what I should drop on a knee a worship his high all mighty consciousness 

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Yeah Yeah said:

@Sugarcoat good point because he's talking shmack if he thinks he is superior to my own experience right this moment and I'm just his dream material so what I should drop on a knee a worship his high all mighty consciousness 

I’m confused about what people define as solipsism. Because i don’t see how having higher consciousness would make you realize “you’re the only experiencer”. They must have a different definition than us

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Loveeee said:

Does he believe people in his dreams are conscious too

People with multiple personality disorder report seeing their multiple personalities as characters in dreams, and when awake, the multiple personalities report experiencing events in that dream from their own perspective. So it's definitely plausible.

Quote

So what do we know about the dream life of a human DID patient? Can the patient’s different alters share a dream, taking different co-conscious points of view within the dream, just like you and I share a world? Can they perceive and interact with one another within their shared dream, just as people can perceive and interact with one another within their shared environment? As it turns out, there is evidence that this is precisely what happens, as research has shown (Barrett 1994: 170-171). Here is an illustrative case from the literature:

The host personality, Sarah, remembered only that her dream from the previous night involved hearing a girl screaming for help. Alter Annie, age four, remembered a nightmare of being tied down naked and unable to cry out as a man began to cut her vagina. Ann, age nine, dreamed of watching this scene and screaming desperately for help (apparently the voice in the host’s dream). Teenage Jo dreamed of coming upon this scene and clubbing the little girl’s attacker over the head; in her dream he fell to the ground dead and she left. In the dreams of Ann and Annie, the teenager with the club appeared, struck the man to the ground but he arose and renewed his attack again. Four year old Sally dreamed of playing with her dolls happily and nothing else. Both Annie and Ann reported a little girl playing obliviously in the corner of the room in their dreams. Although there was no definite abuser-identified alter manifesting at this time, the presence at times of a hallucinated voice similar to Sarah’s uncle suggested there might be yet another alter experiencing the dream from the attacker’s vantage. (Barrett 1994: 171)

Taking this at face value, what it shows is that, while dreaming, a dissociated human mind can manifest multiple, concurrently conscious alters that experience each other from second- and third-person perspectives, just as you and I can shake hands with one another in ordinary waking life. The alters’ experiences are also mutually consistent, in the sense that the alters all seem to perceive the same series of events, each alter from its own individual subjective perspective. The correspondences with the experiences of individual people sharing an outside world are self-evident and require no further commentary.

https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2019/10/the-many-in-our-dreams.html

 

This is a really interesting video suggesting other people are dream characters (and bases it on scientific research):

 

Edited Monday at 08:35 PM by Carl-Richard

[Eskilon]

11 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

How do you define solipsism?  Because if it means “I’m the only self conscious experience “ then I don’t see how that requires higher consciousness 

The highest form is absolute solipsism, only YOU exist, not the ego you.

But see, this distinction is way more trickier than it seems, the higher and lower self is not really separated from consciousness point of view. So in a sense, you right now as you watch this reply is the only thing that exist. 

As I see the only thing that exist is the SELF, Brahman, whatever you want to call it. But your ego is also absolute, it's tricky explaining. I think this is what Leo tried explaining in the infinity of gods video. Solipsism is one of the trickiest riddles for sure.

I think to try to get your head around is to really grasp what a strange-loop is, you right now is the only thing that exist, and at the same time it isn't.

Edited Monday at 08:42 PM by Eskilon

[Salvijus]

13 minutes ago, Yeah Yeah said:

@Salvijus exactly this is just a coping mechanism to feel more superior than the supposed dream hallucinations of other people and these forums won't give it up because it's an addiction to try and reach some feeling of being more above than any one else and Leo really played this one out to say I am dreaming him through a YouTube video which is too far of a stretch in my opinion like come on really I know I exist and all you commenters are just me dreaming my own life story into a narrative coherence and it's not even the best this god me would come up with if I could control the rest of you how I think this dream world should actually be 

Ugh... I hear you. If only the was a way to get through to them. Reason alone would be enough if only they were willing to listen. Living in denial, plus addiction to superiority, inability to reason. What a mess all at once.

[Schizophonia]

20 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

It seems people define solipsism differently. I think of it like when people believe they are the only self conscious being and others lack self consciousness. It doesn’t seem to apply to what you said. Because I’m not talking about realizing “you are everything that exists”.

But I guess your point is that this human form, the body and brain, creates such a complex self structure, and it just makes sense to us that we exist, everything seems to suggest it, so makes it harder to break the illusion 

If i am everything there is only one consciousness. 

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

The highest form is absolute solipsism, only YOU exist, not the ego you.

 

But if we define it like that, why even use the word solipsism then? It becomes useless. Why not only say “there’s only everything, there only oneness”. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

. 

5 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

 

But see, this distinction is way more trickier than it seems, the higher and lower self is not really separated from consciousness point of view.

 

To say the higher and lower self is not really separated, is another way of saying there’s no separation, meaning the lower self doesn’t actually exist. 
 

 

5 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

So in a sense, you right now as you watch this reply is the only thing that exist. 

 

This is the part I don’t believe. This is how I think of solipsism. 
 

 

6 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

 

As I see the only thing that exist is the SELF, Brahman, whatever on want to call it. But your ego is also absolute, it's tricky explaining. I think this is what Leo tried explaining in the infinity of gods video. Solipsism is one of the trickiest riddles for sure.

Maybe ego is just an appearance. Like how a stone is a form. So it’s all absolute yes.

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

If i am everything there is only one consciousness. 

Here there’s a difference in how people define consciousness too. I use it in a dual sense “subject and object”. Some, like you it seems, use it to describe all of reality. 

Edited Monday at 08:44 PM by Sugarcoat

[Schizophonia]

@Yeah Yeah

Read Neville Goddard, Walter C Lanyon, Dolores Cannon...

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

Here there’s a difference in how people define consciousness too. I use it as meaning duality. Some, like you it seems, use it to describe all of reality. 

What's the difference ? 🤔

[Salvijus]

25 minutes ago, Yeah Yeah said:

Where are all the women coming to flock at me if this is my dream? Seriously I'm sick of the slack with these NPC hallucinations how do I dream people into greater submission? 

They will pretend that's a feature not a bug. Whatever it takes to keep the cope going. 

Edited Monday at 08:48 PM by Salvijus

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

What's the difference ? 🤔

There’s a major difference. One is saying reality is consciousness, I’m saying: I posses consciousness, I am conscious of myself (subject) and of other (object). Consciousness having no attributes, it seems to exist because there’s a subject and object (duality). 

Edited Monday at 08:49 PM by Sugarcoat