Humanity Has Failed

[Twentyfirst]

Like I said before you can argue forever about the morals, developments, war strategies, land borders, psychology, propaganda, polls, allies

All that should matter is what is legal in international law

The law gave Palestinians a state in 48, and it recognizes the 67 borders today. There should be a Palestinian state that is armed with clear borders. Israel should not have settlers in West Bank. Gaza should not be occupied (and if so it's Israelis duty to provide aid). East Jerusalem should not be occupied

Israel is breaking international law. You can't argue with it. Doesn't matter if Palestinians are low developed, terrorists, resentful, lack governance, undeserving, etc. Not up to anyone to decide but themselves. Everyone says how "all nations are formed in violence" but then in the same breath say "Palestinians are just not ready to form their own state with their current behavior"

Edited May 26 by Twentyfirst

[Karmadhi]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

hat's fine, but it doesn't change their situation and their low level currently. Yes, Israel contributes greatly to making their level low. But also, it was never high to begin with. The whole Middle East is a swarm of low development, period. The only reason Israel has high development is because most of them are Europeans.

In the end European development simply trumps Arab development. There's no way around that. Regardless of the morals or reasons.

Again Leo that is not the point of the thread.

I dont know why you always go back into how bad Hamas is

Point is that Israel also does not clear the moral development threashold of a "moral country" worthy of support, alliance and praise

That is the point

Just because Hamas is worse does not mean that Israel clears the threashold of a country worth supporting

This is not a zero sum game, you can condemn both, sanction both and cut ties with both.

Just because you sanction Israel does not mean you support Hamas. That is Israel bullshit propaganda that calls anyone that go against them as aider of Hamas.

And unlike certain countries Israel does not have key natural resources so they can cut ties with them without much issue.

It is not like Russia, Iran or Saudi where cutting ties has serious issues due to them having tons of necessary natural resources and therefore you need to be careful about how you deal with them.

Why has not Germany, France, UK and USA cut ties with Israel for them doing ethnic cleansing is the point

And also Israel at this point is going beyond ethnic cleansing to genocide territories with their blocade of aid.

Serious discussions are going on about it.

When Serbia tried to do something similar in Kosovo during the Kosovo war NATO intervened and bombed the hell out of Serbia for them to stop.

"NATO's intervention was prompted by Yugoslavia's bloodshed and ethnic cleansing of Kosovar Albanians, which drove the Albanians into neighbouring countries and had the potential to destabilize the region. Yugoslavia's actions had already provoked condemnation by international organisations and agencies such as the UN, NATO, and various INGOs.[31][32] Yugoslavia's refusal to sign the Rambouillet Accords was initially offered as justification for NATO's use of force.[33] Because Russia and China could use their veto within the Security Council to not authorize an external intervention,[34] NATO launched its campaign without the UN's approval, stating that it was inter alia a humanitarian intervention.[35] The UN Charter prohibits the use of force except in the case of a decision by the Security Council under Article 42, under Article 51 or under Article 53.[36] Three days after the commencement of hostilities, on 26 March 1999, the Security Council rejected the demand of Russia, Belarus and India for the cessation of the use of force against Yugoslavia.[37]"

See the contrast  

Here they do not even sanction, not even talking about bombing.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-committee-finds-israels-warfare-methods-gaza-consistent-genocide

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/12/19/israels-crime-extermination-acts-genocide-gaza

 

Edited May 26 by Karmadhi

[Twentyfirst]

Don't forget that the primary motivation of the west is anti semitism. The holocaust was an antisemitic genocide of Jews in Europe and Israel was and still is an antisemitic ethnic cleansing of Jews out of Europe. The money, the support, the turning a blind eye is to prevent Jews from ever having to come back. They hate Jews, always have. In this way humanity (Europe) failed Jews by persecuting them for 2,000 years or whatever and now this. I empathize with the Jews in that regard

Edited May 26 by Twentyfirst

[PurpleTree]

58 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Don't forget that the primary motivation of the west is anti semitism. The holocaust was an antisemitic genocide of Jews in Europe and Israel was and still is an antisemitic ethnic cleansing of Jews out of Europe. The money, the support, the turning a blind eye is to prevent Jews from ever having to come back. They hate Jews, always have. In this way humanity (Europe) failed Jews by persecuting them for 2,000 years or whatever and now this. I empathize with the Jews in that regard

So then you agree with Jews taking this small place of land right? I mean Arabs have many countries and Muslims have even more countries. And at least the Jews are building a country with some freedoms riiiight?

[Twentyfirst]

44 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

So then you agree with Jews taking this small place of land right? I mean Arabs have many countries and Muslims have even more countries. And at least the Jews are building a country with some freedoms riiiight?

Nope. Zionism only works if the Jews take a land that doesn't already belong to a group of people. Since they stole land zionism is incredibly stupid, dangerous for everyone, expensive and requires constant maintenance, exhausting, and will never work as an idea. Right now I would become a zionist myself if it meant the Jews get their own state without theft, I would love that for them why not

Why are Europeans complaining about immigrants? Why don't the Swedish go to Norway? Plenty of land there. Why don't the British swim to Ireland. Isn't it all the same thing anyway?

The French should move to Spain while the Spanish move to Portugal and the Portuguese move to France. Wouldn't that make perfect sense?

Aren't Germans and Austrians the same thing or something? We should move them all to Netherlands

Zionists started coming to Palestine before 48 so it was an overflow of immigrants. The real issue started with the Nakba ethnic cleansing not the Palestinians living among immigrants. The ethnic cleansing is an uprooting of a people to their land. When people have ancestral ties to a land breaking that chain causes extreme psychological stresses. Palestinians have the keys to their homes to this day proving they are eager to return. Native Americans described the same phenomenon of not being able to live outside of their land. Don't forget the right of return to all Palestinians and their children are granted by international law

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMm1zbk4Ef8

 

 

Edited May 26 by Twentyfirst

[Nemra]

@Twentyfirst, Jews also lived in that area long ago. They also migrated and were displaced.

Why wouldn't they want to go back to their ancestral land?

You want "ancestral ties" to apply to Palestinians but not to Jews?

Edited May 26 by Nemra

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Twentyfirst, Jews also lived in that area long ago. They also migrated and were displaced.

Why wouldn't they want to go back to their ancestral land?

You want "ancestral ties" to apply to Palestinians but not to Jews?

Going back isn't the problem. Kicking others off the land and blocking them from having a viable state is the problem.

Israel refuses Palestine statehood and keeps grabbing more and more land with the intent to grab all of it.

This is like a guest who stays in your house and then takes over your house one room at a time until you live in the backyard in the doghouse.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[Nemra]

@Leo Gura, I know, thanks to you, and I agree with you.

He just defends those lands as if those lands have been given to Palestinians.

Zionists also think that it has been theirs.

However, I understand that Palestinians have been living there for a while now, and they have been attached to those lands, which Israelis should have understood by now.

Edited May 26 by Nemra

[Twentyfirst]

38 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Twentyfirst, Jews also lived in that area long ago. They also migrated and were displaced.

Why wouldn't they want to go back to their ancestral land?

You want "ancestral ties" to apply to Palestinians but not to Jews?

Then how come there were Middle Eastern Jews living in Palestine and never got kicked out?

Prove that the European Jews have ties. Let's do DNA tests

You are missing a large point. Even if you have ties it doesn't give right to kick out 750,000 people from their homes without payment and creating a refugee crisis. European Jews are extremely violent so it left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. They didn't just come claiming ancestral ties but also came by ignoring Palestinian ties which are more rooted since they never left for thousands of years

Edited May 26 by Twentyfirst

[Twentyfirst]

13 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Leo Gura, I know, thanks to you, and I agree with you.

He just defends those lands as if those lands have been given to Palestinians.

Zionists also think that it has been theirs.

However, I understand that Palestinians have been living there for a while now, and they have been attached to those lands, which Israelis should have understood by now.

Don't forget that Zionists were debating whether they should make a state in Uganda or Madagascar. Something like that I don't remember exactly 

The religious homeland is mostly an excuse for colonization

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

European Jews are extremely violent

So then why shouldn’t Europeans kick them out?

[Nemra]

13 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Then how come there were Middle Eastern Jews living in Palestine and never got kicked out?

Prove that the European Jews have ties. Let's do DNA tests

You are missing a large point. Even if you have ties it doesn't give right to kick out 750,000 people from their homes without payment and creating a refugee crisis. European Jews are extremely violent

Nice cheap trick you did there saying things that I did not say.

I wanted to show you that "ancestral ties" is BS.

It's about who is living on those lands now.

But, yes, I recognize that Israel has been doing shitty stuff to Palestinians than Palestinians could ever do to Israelis.

Edited May 26 by Nemra

[Twentyfirst]

12 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

So then why shouldn’t Europeans kick them out?

That's not what happened. The Europeans were oppressive to the Jews for many centuries. Blaming them for everything and using them as a scapegoat. Then came the Jewish question which was "What to do with all the Jews". All this prepared the soil for Hitler to grow and after the holocaust they changed it from a genocide to an ethnic cleansing which is just another way to scapegoat them. Maybe the Jews were involved in shady banking stuff but that's because in the West if you gain enough money you can bribe your way to a higher position than the leaders themselves 

The zionist Jews spent so much time in Europe they learned these violent colonization and propaganda tactics that they brought with them to Palestine. The ironic thing is they are using the assistance of the same people that tried to destroy them to destroy the only friends they ever had. Middle Eastern Jews were always safe in Palestine.

Even a good portion of the initial European Jews were welcomed with open arms and Palestinians took them into their home. But when those Palestinians went out for a few days they would come back and the doors were locked. It's super messed up. You can't really blame Palestinians for what they have become more than you can blame Jews. That's why I say this is a western problem not a jewish or middle eastern problem 

Edited May 26 by Twentyfirst

[Twentyfirst]

1 minute ago, Nemra said:

Nice cheap trick you did there saying things that I did not say.

I wanted to show you that "ancestral ties" is BS.

It's about who is living on those lands now.

But, yes, I recognize that Israel has been doing shitty stuff to Palestinians than Palestinians could ever do Israelis.

Did you watch the 3 videos I posted in that ancestral ties comment? 

Ancestral ties are real. Which is exactly why the right of return is in the international law

[PurpleTree]

6 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

because in the West if you gain enough money you can bribe your way to a higher position than the leaders themselves  

Is that a thing that’s only in the West. Isn’t bribery much worse in other places?

You‘re obsessed with the west it’s cute.

[Twentyfirst]

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Is that a thing that’s only in the West. Isn’t bribery much worse in other places?

You‘re obsessed with the west it’s cute.

Meanwhile, today Western leaders sold out to corporations and bailout banks at the expense of their own positions and people

You think Putin will let some tech billionaire sway him? You think Singapore will let some Madoff scammer get anything less than the death penalty? You think MBS will accept some Epstein island? 

Why do you think the gulf is giving Trump so much money?

[Twentyfirst]

@Nemra Proof Israel has no ancestral ties. They had an attack on Oct 7 and at least 500,000 fled the country even though it would have been hard for Hamas to make another successful attack

Gaza has had Nagasaki level bombs for 20 months and Trump promised them palaces in faraway lands and nobody leaves

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Meanwhile, today Western leaders sold out to corporations and bailout banks at the expense of their own positions and people

You think Putin will let some tech billionaire sway him? You think Singapore will let some Madoff scammer get anything less than the death penalty? You think MBS will accept some Epstein island? 

Why do you think the gulf is giving Trump so much money?

Well Trump is gross and so is MBS and Putin. Of course democracies are probably more prone to being influenced like AfD in Germany, Le Pen in France by bribery aka Russian, Qatari, Chinese money than dictatorships. There is less control and more freedom.

Edited May 26 by PurpleTree

[Nemra]

21 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Ancestral ties are real. Which is exactly why the right of return is in the international law.

Again, Jews also have ancestral ties.

However, I'm saying that using "ancestral ties" to defend your position is most likely nonsense.

Yeah, it could work a few times, but I would not recommend relying on it unless you want to waste your life and create an identity out of it.

Edited May 26 by Nemra

[Twentyfirst]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Well Trump is gross and so is MBS and Putin. Of course democracies are probably more prone to being influenced like AfD in Germany, Le Pen in France by bribery aka Russian, Qatari, Chinese money than dictatorships. There is less control and more freedom.

Im sure Washington was for sale before Trump. Trump just has enough balls to do it in front of everyones faces

Larry Fink called and he said PurpleTree will own nothing and be happy 😃