Humanity Has Failed

[Twentyfirst]

1 minute ago, thedoorsareopen said:

This is the exact hand-washing of responsibility that keeps the Palestinians from being able to achieve an independent, self-governing state. They're like little kids saying, but they hit me! It's not fair! They have more toys! They being either Israel or the West. 

I was pointing to the fact that the US was the mediator bringing the Israelis and Palestinians to the negotiating table throughout the second half of the 20th century, and you came back at me with "the entire concept of nation-states is wrong," in which case, what do you care whether the Palestinians have their own state?

If we're gonna take that wide a context on history, the middle east is just mad it ain't the 7th or 12th century anymore and the idea of a strictly Islamic society simply doesn't work in a modern context, and instead of dealing with that crisis of identity it's just hoping to pull everyone back down into cycles of violence, back down the hierarchy of spiral dynamics.

This problem simply can't be solved with eye for an eye thinking, and from where I'm standing, it ain't the US or Israel that's really standing in the way of resolving this issue. It's the grip Islam has on the middle east and the shame-based culture of that religion that prevents Arabs from negotiating or compromising. Admitting that Israel has a place in the middle east is considered this grievous loss of status, a "slippery slope" because the Arabs can only think in terms of conquest and conformity.

West = civilized, modern best values, white, 100 years ahead of global development

80 percent of rest of world = animals, barbaric savages, underdeveloped, backwards

Like I said if you believe in this western democracy and values bullcrap you will write something like this. How did I know what you were gonna say before you said all this slop

[thedoorsareopen]

If it were up to the sages of the middle east, we'd be obediently reading our Qurans right now, not experiencing modernity. I'll take my western values, thank you very much.

[thedoorsareopen]

By the way, this is my take after living 39 years of life as an Arab American, and as I always say, prove me wrong Arabs, prove me wrong!

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, thedoorsareopen said:

By the way, this is my take after living 39 years of life as an Arab American, and as I always say, prove me wrong Arabs, prove me wrong!

There is so much evidence that is you that has to prove them right

[zazen]

2 hours ago, thedoorsareopen said:

I'll take my western values

Western values have a right to defend themself. The US started on genocide and it’s primacy is ending in one too - along with the Wests place on the world stage.

 

Edited 21 hours ago by zazen

[Twentyfirst]

He deflected the point. The point I made was that this was a result of Western interference from the British and French carving up land all the way to today by supplying weapons. I don't know how that is hard to grasp

[Porphyry Fedotov]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is bad but not as low as terrorism.

Indiscriminate bombings of refugee camp sites, hospitals, schools, and other civilian infrastructure look like terrorism to me. It doesn't make sense from a military perspective, but it does terrorise the civilian population.
Russia (since I'm Russian and know more about the Russian-Ukrainian conflict than about the Gaza genocide) is using the same terror-inducing tactics against Ukraine. Russia is bombing Ukrainian residential areas, schools, universities, churches, power plants etc.
So, the European Parliament declared Russia to be a state sponsor of terrorism. 
However, I don't see the European Parliament declaring Israel to be the state sponsor of terrorism for the same exact stuff. Hm why I wonder.

Edited 21 hours ago by Porphyry Fedotov

[Porphyry Fedotov]

18 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@Porphyry Fedotov Then the US and European coalition aren't different from ISIS according to YOUR exact same logic 🙂

In many cases, they are lol. People in the future gonna be perplexed studying our times. In the name of fighting terrorism, the so-called West destroyed and murdered more people than 'Salafi jihadists' themselves. In this sense, the so-called West is the sole source of terror in the Middle East

[zazen]

It’s “low” terrorism when it wears sandals but “higher” when it wears a suit and tie. It’s low when a non state actor does it but high when a state does it - still bad, but not as low, whatever that means.

It’s like saying when an establishment candidate wins its democracy, but when a non-establishment candidate wins its populism. Even though democracy is functionally a popularity contest - the most popular is voted into office. 

Saying Israel does “some degree” of terrorism is like saying apartheid South Africa did “some degree of racism.” It’s foundational - not incidental.

Terrorism is foundational not only in how Israel was created, but in how it maintains itself: through systematic violence and coercion aimed at a civilian population to achieve political goals - textbook definition.

Being an occupying power which requires violence to sustain itself, whilst being an apartheid state - is just a “degree” of terrorism.

Edited 20 hours ago by zazen

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

Being an occupying power which requires violence to sustain itself

You could say the same thing about every state in a way. They need state, police, jails, laws, fines, power to keep the population in check.

Edited 18 hours ago by PurpleTree

[Twentyfirst]

45 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

You could say the same thing about every state in a way. They need state, police, jails, laws, fines, power to keep the population in check.

The west has an unusual and unique amount of violence, brutality, and hypocrisy. No other people eradicated and stole two entire continents without ever feeling any remorse and rather celebrating it. They call it "civilizing the world"

There are Americans and Australians that have lived their entire lives without ever seeing a Native American or aboriginal. That's a level of genocide that goes beyond belief. Never mind the world wars and nuclear bombs. When did China or Russia invent the nuke? 

USA is a police surveillance state like no other. At least in other countries you know they are spying on you. Trump is wanting to get an iron dome above the entire country costing 800 billion dollars. Do you see Bhutan investing all their hard earned money into war? No because Bhutan are a much more peaceful people, not warlike, and they are just fine with living their lives. They haven't created so many enemies and have higher values 

The west also is brutal to their own citizens. What other dictator will let his citizens do corrupt things like gamble themselves homeless, drink themselves to death, abort their children, unchecked school massacres, the list just goes on and on and on. Your society is sick

The west has never changed. The same people who would hang slaves on a nearby tree eating at a picnic are the same people in Tel Aviv having a food festival a few miles away from a starvation genocide 

Edited 17 hours ago by Twentyfirst

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

The west has an unusual and unique amount of violence, brutality, and hypocrisy. No other people eradicated and stole two entire continents without ever feeling any remorse and rather celebrating it. They call it "civilizing the world"

There are Americans and Australians that have lived their entire lives without ever seeing a Native American or aboriginal. That's a level of genocide that goes beyond belief. Never mind the world wars and nuclear bombs. When did China or Russia invent the nuke? 

USA is a police surveillance state like no other. At least in other countries you know they are spying on you. Trump is wanting to get an iron dome above the entire country costing 800 billion dollars. Do you see Bhutan investing all their hard earned money into war? No because Bhutan are a much more peaceful people, not warlike, and they are just fine with living their lives. They haven't created so many enemies and have higher values 

The west has never changed. The same people who would hang slaves on a nearby tree eating at a picnic are the same people in Tel Aviv having a food festival a few miles away from a starvation genocide 

Nice.

The west also has an unusual amount of inventions, vaccines and so on. Everything you use almost.

[Twentyfirst]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

Nice.

The west also has an unusual amount of inventions, vaccines and so on. Everything you use almost.

You don't remember the conversation we had when you said without the west I wouldn't be able to type to you on my computer. Then I sent you that video of an Arab islam guy a thousand years ago who invented the algorithm that the computer is based on. Then you never even responded?

Because you are such a materialistic people. You think inventing cool stuff (which requires rape and pillaging to get the materials) is somehow a sign of development 

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

You don't remember the conversation we had when you said without the west I wouldn't be able to type to you on my computer. Then I sent you that video of an Arab islam guy a thousand years ago who invented the algorithm that the computer is based on. Then you never even responded?

Because you are such a materialistic people. You think inventing cool stuff (which requires rape and pillaging to get the materials) is somehow a sign of development 

Aren’t you a little bit thankful that your mother didn’t die of polio or infections?

And yea i‘m not the guy using the internet (a beautiful invention)

To write crap about arabs.

You‘re the guy using the internet everyday to write crap about the west.

 

[Twentyfirst]

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Aren’t you a little bit thankful that your mother didn’t die of polio or infections?

And yea i‘m not the guy using the internet (a beautiful invention)

To write crap about arabs.

You‘re the guy using the internet everyday to write crap about the west.

 

But why so get defensive if someone speaks against the west? You aren't the west you are just a westerner. You are more of a victim of the west than you will ever admit 

If the west criticizes Iran they have no choice but to defend that criticism because they know that the west is using propaganda to get their own armies to invade and destroy. But if the East criticizes the west it's just so the west can undergo their own healing which will help the entire world

[PurpleTree]

6 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

But why so get defensive if someone speaks against the west? You aren't the west you are just a westerner. You are more of a victim of the west than you will ever admit 

If the west criticizes Iran they have no choice but to defend that criticism because they know that the west is using propaganda to get their own armies to invade and destroy. But if the East criticizes the west it's just so the west can undergo their own healing which will help the entire world

Because i find it annoying and bratty.

I would also get a bit annoyed if someone always ever only mentioned everything bad about chinese or arabs or whatever and never mentioned anything good.

Do you think you can change anybody’s mind with your comments on the internet or something? I don’t think so you make me disrespect your cause and such more actually.

Also the women in Iran probably get suppressed more by Islam and their government than the west. Although the sanctions are bad. 
 

But in a way you’re holding the west to a much higher standard which is funny.

Edited 16 hours ago by PurpleTree

[Twentyfirst]

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Because i find it annoying and bratty.

Imagine getting colonized by someone who is shouting at you "I am more developed than you". No really, imagine it

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I would also get a bit annoyed if someone always ever only mentioned everything bad about chinese or arabs or whatever and never mentioned anything good.

What good words about Chinese or Arabs have come out of the West in the last century? It's always terrible untrue things. Everything I am saying about the West is historical factual 

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Do you think you can change anybody’s mind with your comments on the internet or something? I don’t think so you make me disrespect your cause and such more actually.

Do what you want. If you think the west can go on with this arrogance forever like your leaders are promising you then you are in for a surprise 

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Also the women in Iran probably get suppressed more by Islam and their government than the west. Although the sanctions are bad.

But in a way you’re holding the west to a much higher standard which is funny.

That's why the women in the West have four waves of feminism all the way from being able to vote and work to "kill all men" and "rape culture is real" slogans 

 

I don't entirely hate the west. I have lived in the west. I see some good things about it. I have many really good friends from the west. I hope to see its talents pointed in the right direction in the future. I hope the people of the west are liberated from the west instead of depending on therapy and anti depressant pills. I don't see a point in east vs west wars especially in 2025. The entire world has stake in the west and wants to just move on from all of this but westerners would rather elect Weinstein and Epstein pedos to control their nations and weapons

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Imagine getting colonized by someone who is shouting at you "I am more developed than you". No really, imagine it

That was always the case. Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Mayans, Persians, Ottomans, Europeans, Japanese, Chinese, Muslims, Christians, Americans and so on.

11 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

 

What good words about Chinese or Arabs have come out of the West in the last century? It's always terrible untrue things. 

A lot of good things. We like their foods. We respect China for being and ancient culture and inventions. We like Rumi and so ln. But if there’s rivalry and competition then there’s rivalry. It’s ingrained kind of. Look at sports.

14 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

 Do what you want. If you think the west can go on with this arrogance forever like your leaders are promising you then you are in for a surprise 

I mean i do agree that the hegemony of the west won’t and shouldn’t go on. Especially the US. Europe after world war 2 hasn’t been so hungry for power and whatnot. Less than Chinese and others imo.
 

But what should come after the west is the question. Imo certainly not Islam, authoritarian Chinese style, Russian oligarchy or something. So then who will lead it better? I don’t see anybody.

 

[Sandhu]

 

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

That was always the case. Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Mayans, Persians, Ottomans, Europeans, Japanese, Chinese, Muslims, Christians, Americans and so on.

Westerners love to repeat this lie because it hides their unique style of raping the earth. Like I said no other continent has had colonizers who stole two entire continents. It wasn't just British, it was French and Dutch and Spanish and others. No it's not normal at all. It's unique. 

Other colonizers integrated the conquered people into their lands and made them better. Why wouldn't they do it that way?

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

A lot of good things. We like their foods. We respect China for being and ancient culture and inventions. We like Rumi and so ln. But if there’s rivalry and competition then there’s rivalry. It’s ingrained kind of. Look at sports.

You are creating the rivalry. The west hates anything that isn't the west. Anything that isn't white. Anything that doesn't follow their hypocritical values. Why is Trump inviting South African whites but not other refugees? Why are all other countries in agreement that the west is batshit crazy.

Why is the rivalry the west (15% of world) vs the entire world (85% of rest of world) anyways? Why isn't it everyone vs china or everyone vs Peru. Why does it have to be every single country vs the west. It's because your societies have gone way to far and need to be stopped

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

I mean i do agree that the hegemony of the west won’t and shouldn’t go on. Especially the US. Europe after world war 2 hasn’t been so hungry for power and whatnot. Less than Chinese and others imo.
 

But what should come after the west is the question. Imo certainly not Islam, authoritarian Chinese style, Russian oligarchy or something. So then who will lead it better? I don’t see anybody.

 

Then you would be part of the few who thinks the hegemony shouldn't go on. Most westerners are willing to do anything to keep this charade up

I don't think we need to see somebody better before relinquishing the wests control. Sure Russia or the Arabs may do genocides but we don't know. What we do know for a fact is that the USA has been toppling and meddling since ww2 and we don't have to speculate about that. The US has killed over 5 million muslims/Arabs In the past 40 years. That's a genocide. It also caused the rising of terror groups in that region which kill even more people. I don't think those people care that the West sells them an iPhone for $1,000. I think the muslims just want to live comfortable lives not at the expense of people across the world who hate how they live. They live in accordance to their religion what does it matter to Americans who gave up their religion for atheism