Why i am not a vegan ?

[Schizophonia]

From a non dual pov, « What ? » to do isn’t important.

What has importance is the « Why ? »

[integral]

45 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Do we need heme iron in diet? If yes, why? What is the evidence? In healthy adults specifically I mean

You’re asking for science to give you evidence of why you should remove the most important nutrients of 100s of millions of years of evolution from the human diet and replace it with a supplement so of course in order to dissolution the idea that that study has anything to do with evidence you have to expand the scope.

We’re talking about a paradigm and a belief system not evidence supporting facts.

if the study does show evidence that Hema iron shortens lifespan, it does not say that an alternative is better for the general population

If you want to replace it with fish well now you have mercury problems. If you wanna replace it to white meat then now you might have iron absorption problems people are deficient.

And seeing as every individual is different, you’re gonna get 30% of people on the left side of the Bell curve that would react very badly to just removing these primordial foods from the diet and supplementing.

I’m not supporting carnivore or anything like that I’m talking about the individuality of every human that is completely lost when you average out everything

If 30% of people on the left side of the belt curve require Hema iron to thrive, and that is averaged out and lost in the study, what is that saying about all these studies?

Edited May 20 by integral

[Schizophonia]

4 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Deep down on the most very fundamental existential level, this is probably true...at least partially 

I want to suffer from dementia, or at least lack of motivation and/or brain fog, even ADHD-like symptoms, because I'm afraid of suffering when I realize I'm wasting and « has wasted my life »my life.

 

And I prefer to remain, narcissistically, in my poor daily routine than to indulge myself in an attempt to signal my unhappiness, because I am unhappy that my present and past unhappiness is not recognized. Like, “I can’t change now and love myself, because what good will all this suffering have done?!”

 

And I am so unhappy that my suffering is not recognized because I believe that I have no right to be immobilized by suffering ; that I'm going to be attacked.

Typically, for exemple the case of someone who had to work for her parents when she was little, and got yelled at for being more unproductive due to clumsiness, anxiety, or something like that; loud enough that it was repressed and prevented awareness and perspective.

 

[integral]

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

Just for the sake of argument, what if I replace it with 50mg of ferrous glycinate. Pure supplement. Nothing else in there. 

Why is that a problem? 

How is that a problem? 

• Because you're not removing iron from the diet you're moving a bunch of components from the diet all at the same time which is the whole animal source. That will take for some people up to 5-10 years to show up as a problem. Anything long-term is basically outside the scope of science.

• The supplements cause digestion pain And many people use Heme iron supplements to avoid that. So this doesn't generally just work.

• Am I supposed to cite a bunch of studies on malnourished vegan who are attempting to supplement and that doesn't work for them?

• Most importantly when it doesn't work in practice, The individual has to stop doing it?

• Which means what you do in practice is separate from what theory is saying, and this is not wrong in any way, in practice you have a strategy of how to apply science. Science which is a map that doesn't fully account for everything.

• Data oriented science academic types are not interested in how to apply science in practice which is a completely separate science that is not investigated.

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

If the alternative is to eat steak every day, how do we know that's better or worse? 

They feel bad. It didn't work in practice. Individualized nutrition. For many of them it takes years before any problems show up. And then those problems are conflated with other things.

Or run studies that work with people of a large sample size for 50 years on a strict diet of supplements and alternative Foods. And compared to a study of 50 years or people strictly follow a healthy omnivore diet less reliant on supplements

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

Humans have been eating bovine steaks for 100 millions of years despite farming being like 10,000 years old? Not to mention cattle being introduced to America in like 1600s. 

They've been eating animals. 

There's about six+ nutrients that you have to supplement if you're going to remove animals from the diet completely.

Or you need to consume alternative ingredients found across the world that were not accessible all in one place for 100 million years.

---

I'm not for carnivore, I'm saying that none of these studies are saying you should just remove these foods from the diet and everyone will Thrive and just start supplementing.

I don't know why this leap of faith is happening?

Like there's no individual differences between people?

Supplementation working is all theoretical at scale And we know that supplements are not this perfect solution so obviously at scale there's going to be Mass problems and a bell curve Of people that it will work and won't

Edited May 20 by integral

[Schizophonia]

54 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

I'm not sure how to respond to this 

You don’t have to : )

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

I am not vegan because i don’t care about animals well being (admitting there is actually a objective world with things that happen outside) just like i don’t care about the Chinese worker who did my iPhone.

Thank you for being honest.

It makes sense that you are not Vegan... because you don't have Vegan values.

I disagree with your position. But I can at least respect that you are not doing mental gymnastics and going into cognitive dissonance to try to maintain an identity of goodness.

[D2sage]

Alzheimers is also linked to high consumption of sugar during the younger years of life.

 

[Schizophonia]

On 20/05/2025 at 5:56 PM, Emerald said:

Thank you for being honest.

It makes sense that you are not Vegan... because you don't have Vegan values.

I disagree with your position. But I can at least respect that you are not doing mental gymnastics and going into cognitive dissonance to try to maintain an identity of goodness.

I will continue to respond in the "Carnivore diet been doing great" topic.

Edited May 25 by Schizophonia

[Majed]

The best argument against veganism is the preservation of culinary diversity and traditions. 

In a sense the fight for lgbtq+ rights mirror the fight against veganism. In valuing diversity and having unique expressions outside the bound of a monolithic paradigm. Be it the gender binary or the vegan paradigm.

[Joshe]

You only need an argument for a thing when you want to justify its existence. What compels you to justify your meat-eating? Guilt? Do yourself a favor and accept your selfishness. Carrying meat-eating guilt around just diminishes your health even further than the meat-eating. Lol. 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

You only need an argument for a thing when you want to justify its existence. What compels you to justify your meat-eating? Guilt? Do yourself a favor and accept your selfishness. Carrying meat-eating guilt around just diminishes your health even further than the meat-eating. Lol. 

Exactly my point.

People come up with these elaborate defenses to assuage their own guilt... because deep down, they know that they're not eating meat for health or to preserve culture or whatever the content of the justification is.

It's all because they don't agree with their own actions. And they are shadow boxing with imaginary Vegans in their mind... that represent the way they really feel.

[Majed]

@Emerald We cannot have an intelligent debate with these kind of bullcrap psychoanalyses. My argument is valid. Stop the psychoanalyzing and respond to the actual argument. 

[Emerald]

32 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Emerald We cannot have an intelligent debate with these kind of bullcrap psychoanalyses. My argument is valid. Stop the psychoanalyzing and respond to the actual argument. 

I prefer not to respond to dishonest arguments. But I'll humor you.

My response to the substance of your argument: The existence of Vegans and Veganism doesn't cause harm to culture.

My honest reaction to your post: My perception is that you don't really care about the actual argument itself. 

Like, you don't seem to care about preserving culture in any other context.

In fact, a lot of your posts are direct critiques of your own religious/cultural background.

And there are certain posts where you try to go radically contrarian against cultural standards with hypotheticals around "What if we questioned social norms and dropped taboos around (fill-in-the-blank extremely taboo thing)?" 

So, I don't buy for a second that you're pearl clutching about Veganism undermining culture... nor do I believe you genuinely believe that it does cause harm to culture.

It's pretty clear to me that you're just looking for a way to defend your own actions in your own eyes because you're uncomfortable with your own actions.

[AION]

6 hours ago, Emerald said:

Exactly my point.

People come up with these elaborate defenses to assuage their own guilt... because deep down, they know that they're not eating meat for health or to preserve culture or whatever the content of the justification is.

It's all because they don't agree with their own actions. And they are shadow boxing with imaginary Vegans in their mind... that represent the way they really feel.

If this is the case why do you let your child eat meat. You allowing your child to eat meat is admitting doing what you just wrote down. 

[Leo Gura]

Children need to eat rats to grow big and strong.

No rat, no dessert.

[Joshe]

[Emerald]

On 5/30/2025 at 2:25 AM, AION said:

If this is the case why do you let your child eat meat. You allowing your child to eat meat is admitting doing what you just wrote down. 

I choose my actions based on my values. And I have two values that are at play...

1. I don't like it when animals are needlessly suffering and are killed for the sake of human pleasure. So, I have chosen to abstain from eating meat and animal products, because I don't want to contribute to something that I have such a strong visceral reaction against even seeing it happen.

2. Sovereignty and personal choices is important to me, and I want to respect it in others... including in my children.

So, I would never try to control the dietary and lifestyle choices of other people. And I don't feel right controlling the dietary choices of my children, since I wasn't Vegan when they were born.

Like, if I were Vegan before they were born and my husband was also Vegan (he's not), we could have just set that up as the normal way without them feeling deprived of choice and of their favorite foods.

But if I were to just be like, "Okay kids. I, as your mother, am your supreme authority. You're Vegan now! DEAL WITH IT!" that would not sit right with me because that kind of top-down authoritarian control is just not good parenting.

Plus, they would rebel from it as soon as they turn 18 and become hyper-carnivores just to get away from parental authoritarianism.

So, I am Vegan to bring MY OWN actions into integrity with MY OWN sovereign values.

But it is not for me to tell anyone else what they should value. And it is not for me to control the dietary choices of another person.

Instead, I just focus on getting people to be conscious of their own sovereign values and to become aware of how their own actions are misaligned with their own values.

And once they face those realities about themselves, they can do whatever they want from there.

That's why I'd never try to convince a person who doesn't value the life and well-being of animals to go Vegan. It is not my place to tell them what they should value.

But if someone doesn't like it when animals to needlessly suffer and die and disagrees with eating animals for pleasure... then I try to get them to see that their actions are misaligned from their own values.