Why i am not a vegan ?

[Majed]

Why i am not a vegan? I am not a vegan for simplicity sake. I value having a simple life, and i think that an omnivorous diet is way easier to have than a vegan one. As well as being culinarily richer and more refined. Veganism is an insult to thousands of cultures and their unique cuisines around the world. Thousands of years of culinary practice, wisdom, and experience, thrown away in the name of equality, isn't this tragic? Thousands of plates and recipes, with the richest of diversities, from all continents, have to be butchered in the name of animal rights. As well as veganism being an unbalanced worldview, one that doesn't see compromise, doesn't appreciate the value of animal based food. I'm sick of the old vegan rhetoric, i want new rich and diverse experiences, this includes culinary experiences. Throwing away thousands of years of culinary wisdom, rituals, traditions and habits, is a tragedy. And for this veganism will never win, because at heart the human soul desire novelty, wisdom, diversity and richness. At heart veganism makes you hate humans and their traditions. Also as a non religious person i refuse to be part of this religion and cult which is veganism.

[Basman]

You don't have to justify your choices to anyone.

Yes, veganism means you are imposing significant limitations on your lifestyle. People who chose to be vegan simply value differently.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Veganism is basically a defensive coping mechanism, due to the inability of certain individuals to accept certain inherent truths about one aspect of our survival, which may not be very pleasant. A survival mechanism we share with the rest of the biological organisms, by the way

[Emerald]

Just be honest and say that you want to continue eating animals because they taste good... and that you value the flavor and pleasure of eating them more than you value their lives or their subjective experience of suffering.

That would actually be honest if you stated that, and I'd leave you alone about it.

As a Vegan, my only goal is to get people to be honest about their own values regarding the killing and suffering of animals for pleasure.

And if someone is just like "I don't care about animals at all.... and I am indifferent to their deaths and suffering." then I'm going to leave them alone about their culinary choices as that person is being honest about their values and their actions are already in alignment with them.

What I don't like is when people are dishonest with themselves and they try to do mental gymnastics to justify their choice to consume animal products... using things they don't really give a crap about in any other circumstance as a shield to defend themselves from their own judgments of themselves.

This happens all the time, because non-Vegans with Vegan values are always in cognitive dissonance regarding the lack of integrity between their values and actions... and trying to find some argument or another to justify their choices to the outside world.

And non-Vegans with Vegan values will use ANY defense they think will work... and immediately abandon that defense when it doesn't work because they are looking for whatever will shield themselves from their own feelings of guilt.

And then they project their own repressed guilt about their choices to prioritize pleasure over sentient life onto both silent and vocal Vegans... when it is just their own judgmental voice that they hear in the silent Vegans' heads or coming out of the vocal Vegans' mouths.

Be honest... you really don't care that much about the richness of cultural cuisines or about the preservation of cultures more generally.

You just want to use the goodly notion of 'the preservation of culture' to justify your choice to eat meat so that your choice to eat meat becomes "good" through the narrative you've woven and the choice to abstain from eating meat become "the true evil".

That way, you can maintain your cognitive dissonance and assuage your guilt from acting out of alignment with your own values... and avoid feeling like "the bad guy" in your own eyes.

And to do so, Vegans have to become "the bad guy" instead within your narrative, so you can externalize your own guilt about consuming animals.... and that you can be the valid one and Vegans the invalid ones.

This is always what non-Vegans with Vegan values do to go into cognitive dissonance and justify the actions that are misaligned with their values.

And if it isn't a "preserving culture argument" it's the "what about humane slaughter practices" argument... or the "farm animal overpopulation argument"... or the "God created animals for humans to eat them" argument... etc.

There are probably about 20 common defenses non-Vegans use... but none of them are actual about the substances of the defense. All of them are about the function of defense itself as the non-Vegan either doesn't really believe it or doesn't actually care about it past the function of arguing with Vegans.

 

[Emerald]

9 hours ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

Veganism is basically a defensive coping mechanism, due to the inability of certain individuals to accept certain inherent truths about one aspect of our survival, which may not be very pleasant. A survival mechanism we share with the rest of the biological organisms, by the way

Be honest.

In your current situation, do you actually eat meat for survival?

Or do you eat meat because you enjoy the flavor and texture?

[Majed]

@Emerald That is nonsense. We have the freedom to think about different issues freely. You can't just dismiss someone's argument like that. 

[Kid A]

According to the Danish newspaper Weekendavisen, vegans - who make the greatest sacrifices for animals and our planet - are the most hated minority after drug addicts.

 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

Be honest.

In your current situation, do you actually eat meat for survival?

Or do you eat meat because you enjoy the flavor and texture?

It is an inconvenient and micronutrinally (perhaps even macronutrinally) incomplete diet, therefore yes, it does technically make my survival more difficult. And not optimal. And yes, obviously it also tastes good. But I like me some veggies as well 

[Emerald]

30 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

It is an inconvenient and micronutrinally (perhaps even macronutrinally) incomplete diet, therefore yes, it does technically make my survival more difficult. And not optimal. And yes, obviously it also tastes good. But I like me some veggies as well 

I said to be honest.

It is not harder to survive on a Vegan diet. In fact, statistically Vegans tend to live longer than non-Vegans and have better health outcomes across the board.

But regardless of that, do you personally eat meat to survive? Like, would you die if you stopped eating meat, dairy, and eggs?

Or do you just eat meat, dairy, and eggs because enjoy the flavor and texture?

Self-honesty is important when answering these questions.

[SwiftQuill]

4 hours ago, Kid A said:

According to the Danish newspaper Weekendavisen, vegans - who make the greatest sacrifices for animals and our planet - are the most hated minority after drug addicts.

 

They deserve the hate. They are stupid, self righteous and obnoxious.

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Majed said:

@Emerald That is nonsense. We have the freedom to think about different issues freely. You can't just dismiss someone's argument like that. 

My issue is NOT that we think about this issue differently. If you really didn't care about the deaths and sufferings of animals, you wouldn't bother to make these bullcrap defensive arguments that you don't really care about.

The issue is that, you are a non-Vegan with Vegan values. And you are clearly not okay with your own choice to eat meat, as your argument has guilty all over it and the desire to assuage that guilt.

But because you want to maintain the status quo of your diet and keep enjoying the pleasure of eating meat, you have to find a way to go into cognitive dissonance and square the circle. Hence, why you create this narrative.

And I just want you to be honest about what you're doing when you're making that argument about "preserving culture" and so "I'm the good guy" and "Vegans are the true bad guys".

It's just mental gymnastics to create a narrative to maintain cognitive dissonance and assuage your own guilt about eating meat.

Just be honest and say, "I like the taste of meat. And the pleasure that I get from eating it is something that I value more than the animal's life. And I am okay with animals suffering as long as I can get the momentary pleasure of consuming them."

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

@Emerald Those statistics don't tell the whole story. Like I said couple months ago during our first bout of arguments, meat is not meat, is not meat. Also, it is factual that as a vegan you are missing out on many essential micronutrients

If vegan diet was perfect like that, there wouldn't be so many videos of people (and real life examples of people I've seen) looking pale and malnourished from it. Some people even died from it, even an actual vegan influencer. It is a good thing to eat meat and animal products every once in a while, and there's nothing any of you moral highgrounders can say to me, to convince me of the opposite.

I already told you that I am eating mainly for convenience and easiness of access, as well as proper sustenance. I'm trying to evade junk food as much as possible. But besides that, I'm obviously eating stuff that's tasty to me, is that suppose to be some kind of "gotcha" argument? LOL Ofc I'm always going to be inclined to eat things that taste good

[SwiftQuill]

I went vegetarian for 9 months. I intended on becoming a vegan. But I developed health issues because of the change in my diet.

Don't let vegans gaslight you into thinking becoming a vegan is easy and if you aren't one it's because you are evil and selfish. If you plan on becoming a vegan, I recommend looking for help from a nutritionist. Making a big shift in your diet can be difficult for many people. It can force you to keep track of the amount of nutrients you're ingesting.

And if you don't care about becoming a vegan, don't. Don't become one just because you "identify as a good person" or whatever virtue signaling it is.

For 90% of the population, who work long hours, are stressed about paying the bills, stressed because of college, those who lack free time and energy, the mere thought of becoming a vegan is a privilege. A privilege.

That being said, I do feel bad about animal suffering. And I do intend on becoming vegetarian again, but I will seek help from a nutritionist first.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

23 minutes ago, SwiftQuill said:

That being said, I do feel bad about animal suffering.

Well you see, that animal suffering is effectivelly what allowed you, me (and all of vegans as well) to exist, it had always been a major food source for our ancestors. Things of course shifted majorly after the invention of agriculture and then again after industrial revolution, but animals never ceased to be an important food source. Ofc, given how huge human population has gotten, our meat consumption became increasingly unsustainable and a constant strain on the enviroment. But then again, maybe there shouldn't have been so many of us in the first place, as it's unnatural. Fortunately, our current societal and cultural developments will surely take care of that problem, with perhaps surprising speed

[Kid A]

44 minutes ago, SwiftQuill said:

They deserve the hate. They are stupid, self righteous and obnoxious.

One thing is for sure: I would choose a vegan 10 out of 10 times over anyone who is so generalizing and judgmental that they can justify to themselves writing something like this...

[SwiftQuill]

@NewKidOnTheBlock  I do agree like 5% of what the wokie said, that sometimes it's mental gymnastics to justify experiencing pleasure and still hold the goodie goodie persona. Personally, I've dropped the "I'm such a good person" identify delusion so I don't care about it too much.

@Kid A I invite you meeting a lot of vegans and see how most of them behave. I'm sure you'll enjoy being called a "r4pe promoter" and "animal torturer" and "serial murderer" and "animal h0locaust promoter" just because you dare to have ever eaten meat or drunk milk in the past. I call out self righteousness and virtue signaling when I see it. And my morals are nuanced, not black and white.

Keep up with the moralizing. It's working out great. Extremely effective strategy.

[Kid A]

38 minutes ago, SwiftQuill said:

And my morals are nuanced, not black and white.

Do you think any black-and-white thinker don't think like this?

Your statement is on the same level as claiming that all black people are criminals. Grow up.
 

38 minutes ago, SwiftQuill said:

Keep up with the moralizing. It's working out great. Extremely effective strategy.

Like this, you mean?: 

1 hour ago, SwiftQuill said:

They deserve the hate. They are stupid, self righteous and obnoxious.

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:19 PM by Kid A

[SwiftQuill]

I'm not the one who is going out of their way to preach others on how to live their lives. And I never said vegans are evil so I'm not moralizing. I'm saying that when you are loud and obnoxious then don't be surprised people reject your ideology.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

It's not about being or not being a vegetarian. It's about respect for Life, which we are. You can be a "trendy", "hipster" vegetarian from a wealthy city, with a well-paid job that allows you to be trendy and eat in posh veggie restaurants and expensive trendy stores with healthy veggie food. If this only ends as a trendy lifestyle then it has nothing to do with real care about animal rights and condition of our planet and humanity. What we can is to make people aware that meat eaten from factory farms is, above all, unhealthy for the consumers in a first place. Secondly, it is obtained in a way that makes the Holocaust seem like small beer. Heck, 3/5 of these conscious and sentient beings like pigs, turkeys, chickens and cows, etc., will not even be eaten,because we have become accustomed to the fact that in prosperity everything is always available, we have overproduction of food. I will add that it is stuffed with preservatives and flavor enhancers, so that it is edible at all. This also applies to a large number of veggie products. Let's not forget about the mass, breeding and cruel way of obtaining milk from cows from which dairy products are made. The same applies to eggs. Vegans do not, but vegetarians do eat eggs and cheese. Soy, like corn and grains, comes in 90% from gigantic monoculture crops, the maintenance of which is equally deadly to ecosystems and the humus layer of the soil. So it's not just about not eating meat. I have nothing against eating it, but let's obtain it as humanely as possible. The first cattle farms are already in Poland, which graze on a free range, and from time to time some of them are simply put to sleep on the spot in a hall through which the cattle pass many times. There is no stressful and expensive transport from the farm to the slaughterhouse. The quality of this meat is incomparably better. For example, it has almost 56 times lower concentration of cortisol - a stress hormone. Yes - meat eaters also take in the cortisol of their victims. In the case of eating animals that live in permanent stress all the time - you will really eat a lot of it. And since we are what we eat - well, answer for yourself. Besides, I used to work in a kitchen, I was on the premises of large breeding plants several times and once I was in a slaughterhouse. That was enough for me. As a distant descendant of the Mongols - most people from Central and Eastern European countries have blood type B, brought during the "visits" of Genghis Khan's countrymen. People with this blood type are born meat eaters, and yet for over 4 years I have been a fully healthy vegetarian, with a mission to raise awareness of everything I wrote about briefly above. I also support several foundations working in this field, and for example the Open Cages Foundation has led to a decrease in the consumption of industrially raised poultry by 30%, cattle by 17%, and pigs by 12% in Poland over the last 15 years. Hats off to the people involved there.
And finally. I refer all meat eaters and not only to the human food pyramid. Conscious life is a better life for all inhabitants of this planet.
Thank you for your attention.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/products/ultra-processed-people-book-chris-van-tulleken-9781529160222

I highy recommend this book to all veggies and true vikings😉