Leo, How Many God-Realized Women Have You Met?

[Schizophonia]

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

The spiritual is the Masculine... and the physical is the Feminine.

So why, on average, are "spiritual" men the gentlest and "physical" men the most androgenous?
Answer my question because your ramblings, however complex and thoughtful, will remain false if based on a priori erroneous begging the question.

[Schizophonia]

Look at Marx and Engels, materialists and thinkers of class struggle.
Look at their level of androgenism.

[BlessedLion]

23 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

People make claims all the time; that doesn’t necessarily make them true. They might also be using terms like awakening differently, so that needs to be taken into account. As a whole, we tend to confuse a state or experience with awakening, so it’s important to stay rigorous with oneself regarding that. Enlightenment isn’t a social game. Moreover, circumstances seem secondary to the desire to know; whether direct consciousness occurs may depend more on one’s level of commitment and honesty.

"How does this benefit me?" is a completely different question from "What is true?" The latter is independent of oneself.

You been reading Ralston lately?

[BlessedLion]

21 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Women, by contrast, don’t tend to care about appearing spiritual. They don’t chase spiritual status. They live it.

I was rocking with you up until this point

[Sugarcoat]

5 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

At least a few with glimpses and more.

Once told a woman she’s god and i think she got a little scared.

She should have said “now worship me” 😂😅

[UnbornTao]

@BlessedLion The Gospel of Peter.

[BlessedLion]

19 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I’ve never heard a woman proclaim she is the most awakened person in the world, nor have I often seen a woman too concerned about those definitions, because women are often too immersed in spirituality to care about such definitions and this false “spiritual hierarchy.”
This is a man monkey game.

They do it in subtle ways, maybe it's not as obvious as men but women are playing the same spiritual ego games. Just throw a guy that 2 "spiritual" women are both attracted to into the mix and viola! 

 

19 hours ago, Emerald said:

Even most people who claim to be walking the path of transcendence don't actually want to deep down. That was me before I became conscious of my true spiritual preferences. 

Yeah, it's good to acknowledge and know this. I also find it annoying how the transcendent path has this air of superiority and labelling the path of (let's call it Love) to be silly and childish. This was one thing about studying with Ralston that kinda bugged me and ultimately why i chose to do my apprenticeship with a more heart centered, feminine style school.

[BlessedLion]

1 minute ago, UnbornTao said:

@BlessedLion The Gospel of Peter.

Hahah! He'd be rolling in his grave if Cheng Hsin was turned into some kind of religion

[Emerald]

48 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

So why, on average, are "spiritual" men the gentlest and "physical" men the most androgenous?
Answer my question because your ramblings, however complex and thoughtful, will remain false if based on a priori erroneous begging the question.

Physical men would be called androgynous from the perspective of societal gender norms.... as being physically fit is seen as a culturally Masculine quality despite physicality itself being archetypally and energetically Feminine.

And spiritual men tend to be more Masculine-focused in the sense that they are focused on the non-physical rather than the physical.

The archetypal Masculine is associated with the elements air and fire because the Masculine is about the abstract, spiritual, intellectual, and non-tangible. And air and water create change in substances but aren't a solid substance themselves.

In contrast, the archetypal Feminine is associated with the elements Earth and water because the Feminine is about the concrete, physical, material, and tangible. And Earth and water are about being and are tangible and can acted upon and imbued with the Masculine elements that change their chemical structure.

So, while being physically fit is associated with male gender norms... it is a Feminine principled quality.

And while spiritual men tend to be perceived as gentle (which is not a male gender norm)... the focus towards the non-physical and transcendence of physicality is Masculine principled.

 

[Schizophonia]

48 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Physical men would be called androgynous from the perspective of societal gender norms.... as being physically fit is seen as a culturally Masculine quality despite physicality itself being archetypally and energetically Feminine.

And spiritual men tend to be more Masculine-focused in the sense that they are focused on the non-physical rather than the physical.

The archetypal Masculine is associated with the elements air and fire because the Masculine is about the abstract, spiritual, intellectual, and non-tangible. And air and water create change in substances but aren't a solid substance themselves.

In contrast, the archetypal Feminine is associated with the elements Earth and water because the Feminine is about the concrete, physical, material, and tangible. And Earth and water are about being and are tangible and can acted upon and imbued with the Masculine elements that change their chemical structure.

So, while being physically fit is associated with male gender norms... it is a Feminine principled quality.

And while spiritual men tend to be perceived as gentle (which is not a male gender norm)... the focus towards the non-physical and transcendence of physicality is Masculine principled.

 

You're still giving me your begging question.

I believe this is the opposite of reality since I don't know any particularly masculine male spiritual leaders and the archetype of the spiritual man is a slow, out-of-shape Hindu guru, or a slender, gentle man with a ponytail. 

Conversely, when we think of a virile man in the collective unconscious, you who often speak of Jung, we think of a rugby player, a business leader, a construction worker, a farmer, a handyman, a boxer, a gardener, someone muscular, someone with a high libido, who likes big cars, big watches, cigars, whisky, rib steaks... Everything that is precisely close to the earth, to matter, which is tangible.

 

Actually, I'm not even saying that women are fundamentally removed from the material, because I have too much evidence to the contrary as well. I would say that people with a neotenic endocrine profile, or who unconsciously think they are inferior in the social hierarchy (due to education/collective unconscious, traumas), or who have had a bad course of the Oedipus complex, and it seems more women on average, are more likely to resort to less tangible and regressive rescue voices to satisfy their libido, and this includes spirituality (even if in itself, it is less a question of the nature of the object of predilection than the libidinal structure).

 

Edited May 13 by Schizophonia

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

She should have said “now worship me” 😂😅

Yup 👍 

I showed her nonduality nonsense videos but she said she gets culty or creepy vibes from those guys (newman, gangaji etc)  

 

Edited May 13 by PurpleTree

[Schizophonia]

I believe this confusion comes from when we start to believe that the more "stoic" masculine character comes from a lack of perception, when in reality it comes from the objectification, de-identification and by extension projection of these perceptions, perceptions of lack. (of the phallus)

 

[integral]

8 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Yup 👍 

I showed her nonduality nonsense videos but she said she gets culty vibes from them  

You can only introduce non-duality to people who suffered like crazy and then went into spirituality to try to find some kind of answer.

Even hippie types wouldn't be interested in non-duality cuz it Doesn't align with their vibe

When someone suffers enough with no way out they are much more open to accepting that reality is a dream lol

Edited May 13 by integral

[Lila9]

1 hour ago, BlessedLion said:

They do it in subtle ways, maybe it's not as obvious as men but women are playing the same spiritual ego games. Just throw a guy that 2 "spiritual" women are both attracted to into the mix and viola! 

I don’t understand. What happens if you throw a guy between two spiritual women who are both attracted to him?

1 hour ago, BlessedLion said:

I was rocking with you up until this point

I don’t see the same spiritual arrogance in women as I do in men.

Spiritual arrogance exists in both genders, but it seems that women care less about how they’re perceived. They simply enjoy spirituality and live it, even if it seems odd or misunderstood. They’re also more comfortable with not knowing. If they don’t know something, they’re often more willing to admit it and stay open to learning.
Men, on the other hand, tend to argue and try to prove they know something, often signaling dominance and authority, even when they may not know much.

 

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, integral said:

You can only introduce non-duality to people who suffered like crazy and then went into spirituality to try to find some kind of answer.

Even hippie types wouldn't be interested in non-duality cuz it Doesn't align with their vibe

When someone suffers enough with no way out they are much more open to accepting that reality is a dream lol

Yea maybe. It’s funny because i almost never really talk to people about this stuff who aren’t into it. This woman i only told her because that’s when i started getting into it i think so it was new.

[Xonas Pitfall]

39 minutes ago, Emerald said:

The archetypal Masculine is associated with the elements air and fire because the Masculine is about the abstract, spiritual, intellectual, and non-tangible. And air and water create change in substances but aren't a solid substance themselves.

In contrast, the archetypal Feminine is associated with the elements Earth and water because the Feminine is about the concrete, physical, material, and tangible. And Earth and water are about being and are tangible and can acted upon and imbued with the Masculine elements that change their chemical structure.

That’s really interesting! I’m actually a bit surprised to see the archetypal Masculine linked to air and fire, since I’ve usually heard masculinity described in more stereotypically "hard" terms - grounded, pragmatic, reality-focused, logical, structured. Meanwhile, the Feminine is often framed as "soft," emotional, fluid, intuitive, and abstract-transcendent. This split shows up in how society categorizes fields, too: "hard sciences" like physics and engineering are seen as masculine, while "soft sciences" like psychology or social work are viewed as feminine. Even visually, masculine design tends to favor sharp lines and angles, while feminine design leans toward curves and soft shapes - it reminds me of the Bouba/Kiki effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect Also, why people tend to joke or meme about women being into things like astrology, numerology, the law of attraction, spirituality, or personality types.

That's why it’s kind of funny to hear spirituality linked to the Masculine, since it’s often "stereotyped as a Feminine domain" - all about emotion, intuition, abstract ideas, nonlinear thinking, and connection. A lot of guys, at least in mainstream culture, tend to pride themselves on being logical, step-by-step thinkers, rooted in what’s “real.” Plus, many spiritual practices focus on ego death and surrender, which are often culturally coded as feminine values. On the other hand, masculine traits are often associated with more ego-driven concepts like competition, hierarchy, and individualism. Not to mention, one of the core aspects of God-realization is Love / Self-Love / Surrender / Submission / Absolute Beauty, and I’d honestly be shocked if anyone claimed those concepts sound stereotypically masculine! 

Of course, real spirituality is about balance - it takes emotional intelligence and intuition alongside critical thinking and philosophical deconstruction. Concepts like truth, reality, ownership, omnipotence, and power are also deeply tied to God-realization, and stereotypically, those are seen as more masculine traits. You need both. If you haven’t integrated both aspects, then you're not fully realized yet. And if you continue to see one side as lesser or incomprehensible compared to the other, you're still missing key elements of reality/infinity itself.

What’s unfortunate is how “feminine” is often treated as a synonym for "stupid" or “irrational,” rather than just a different and equally valuable mode of thought. That’s why I’m not a big fan of these kinds of comparisons. They often feel like they distract from actual realization and can limit growth for both genders. And just to clarify - I’m not saying you implied that at all! Your original comment just sparked this train of thought for me.

If you strongly identify with the ego or sense of self, you're more likely to resonate with ideas like self-sufficiency, solipsism, the Lonely God-Head - the all-powerful, all-mighty, ever-present, omnipotent. But you may struggle with ego death, with seeing yourself in others, with recognizing all as love-interconnected, chaotic, beautiful, without needing structure or definition. On the other hand, if you resist or struggle with the ego/self, you'll likely find it easier to accept those interconnected, fluid, and love-centered perspectives, but may have difficulty embracing the power, sovereignty, and totality of the self. That’s why deconstructing the masculine and feminine dichotomies is essential if you're seeking true integration - without it, you're only ever seeing part of the whole.

[Emerald]

@Xonas Pitfall One thing that's important to take note of is that there are different vantage points to look at the Masculine and feminine from.

From one angle, there are archetypally Feminine and Masculine symbols and qualities that are recognized as such across cultures and eras. And these symbols are like a snapshot of a multifaceted thing that always contains its opposite (like the Dao).

And form this vantage point, there is the Masculine and the Feminine as distinct "essences" from one another but that play out in all living and non-living systems.

From the angle of the absolute, all dichotomies are false. And so, from this angle, the Masculine and Feminine is one and the same... indistinguishable from one another.

And from yet another angle, we could say that while some things are more energetically Masculine or Feminine... each thing contains its opposite. And in that sense, all things are infinitely Masculine and Feminine... in the same way that any number you can think of is equally far off from infinity.

To clarify that more, it's important to see that opposites grow out of one another.

For example, the archetypal Masculine is linked to the elements of air and fire... and have to do with the non-physical, abstraction, the intellect, and the spiritual. And the divine Masculine is specifically associated with sacred geometry... ideal non-physical forms.

But it is precisely because the Masculine is associated with the non-physical that it is able to express its ideal and geometric ways in the Feminine world of matter... and it is able to shape matter to the whims of the intellect.

It is similar to how air oxidizes metal. (air being Masculine and metal being Feminine).

The Masculine is subtle and non-physical but it engenders change and growth in the Feminine... similar to how a tiny ephemeral sperm catalyzes change in a much larger and more long-lasting egg.

So, the ability to be grounded and pragmatic (which are elements of the Feminine principle) requires you to be able to organize your intellectual paradigm (which is Masculine) in such a way that you can impregnate the tangible Feminine World of Matter with the sparks of insight and inspiration that spring forth form your Masculine imaginal world.

And ironically, the internal is the Feminine and the external is the Masculine. And the Feminine is subjective while the Masculine is objective.

So, ironically your Masculine imaginal world grows out of your Feminine internal subjective experience.

And the Feminine tangible 3-d world is external to you and objective (and thus exists within the Masculine).

In this way, there are archetypally and energetically Feminine and Masculine phenomenon... but they always contain or exist with its opposite.

Edited May 13 by Emerald

[theleelajoker]

@Emerald 

I read through the whole thread. Your posts are incredible valuable for me are this point.

You basically put all past and my current relationship into a new perspective. A better one  Thanks.

Extremely interesting how cultural ideas of masculine/ feminine can be in contrast to a archetypal properties.

You mentioned medical journeys (Ayahuasca, peyote or similar I assume). Is this the main source of your insights? Honestly, you're the first person describing the m/f energies in this way. Never read about it, too. 

 

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, Emerald said:

  

From the angle of the absolute, all dichotomies are false. And so, from this angle, the Masculine and Feminine is one and the same... indistinguishable from one another.

Non dualists would maybe say. Just an appearance. Neither false or true.

[Emerald]

35 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Non dualists would maybe say. Just an appearance. Neither false or true.

Yes, the Masculine and Feminine is only a perspective from within the illusion.

So on the absolute level, it is a false dichotomy.