Do you pay for the first date?

[Hojo]

@Something Funny I insult her beauty ego she goes to accusing me of molesting teenagers while denying what I am saying. Classic.

Edited January 28 by Hojo

[Something Funny]

Just now, Hojo said:

@Something Funny I insult her beauty ego she goes to accusing me of molesting children while denying I am doing it.

 

Idk what you are talking about.

[something_else]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Nothing wrong on saying that to a group of people or a gf, but it's very inappropriate to put a lady through that.

If she can’t afford $50 for half a dinner I’d like to know that sooner rather than later lol

Also you talk a lot about how one should be open to other perspectives here, but that seems to apply only when that other perspective is yours.

When it’s reversed you don’t seem particularly open to anything other than your own opinions. Just something I noticed in this thread. Make of that what you will.

Edited January 29 by something_else

[Princess Arabia]

Geesh, you would think I'm asking him to pay my college tuition or rent or car note. It's only a date that he asked me to go on and i would only accept if I liked him. Not just for a free meal. I can feed myself. I am nit going to keep explaining myself just to get insulted and be misinterpreted and words put in my mouth because of your preconceived notions about women. Lots of these rebuttals are mentioning nothing I've stated and no one is mentioning the fact that I said I would pay for the date if I asked a man out. Just because I don't ask men out doesn't negate that fact. I've done it in the past many times. I just don't anymore. I don't have to explain why. 

I have to take into consideration who I'm debating with and the type of mindsets. Nothing negative just different and at a different stage. I'm much older than most of you and more experienced and understand somewhat that men and women are different and are attracted to different things. Also culture and regions play a role. My mindset is definitely not one of entitlement, think because I'm beautiful that men should pay for everything or that i'm better or deserve more just for being a woman. I don't think that way. Neither does my stance has to do with treating the guy as a trick or a sex worker or anything on those regards. Those are different matters.

All I'm saying is my stance and this is my personal stance that I'm getting slack for, is if a man asks me out on a personal date, then he is expected to foot the bill that's it. To ne that's just proper dating etiquette just like I won't expect to be on my phone throughout a romantic date because it's bad manners, or constantly keep looking at another guy or things of that nature. For me it's about manners and etiquette in this regard and nothing about what you are all referring to especially @Hojo. So off-track.

With this said, I'm respectfully dismissing myself from this conversation as I can't think of anything else to say to make my point or to express myself as to how I see this. Instead, I'm getting backlashes and insinuations of a user, entitled because of beauty and not seeing the man for who he genuinely is etcetc. I have said all I have to say and will stick to what I'm saying with feelings of dignity and respect to and for myself for the way i feel about all this. I respect your opinions but I refuse to be put on the stand and be belittled for the way I feel about this matter. The only stance I have here is if a man asks me out on a date he should be responsible for that date. I didn't even mention this before but I will now, he should even make sure as a woman that I have a safe way of getting there and a safe way of getting back home or wherever my head will lay for the evening. That's not too much to ask and I make no excuses for these expectations. Chow.

Edited January 29 by Princess Arabia

[Tenebroso]

Women actively approach and insert themselves into the lives of the most attractive men because they know competition is high. If you are not one of those guys who women initiate contact with, maybe it's better to not date and let women share and compete over those men which deep down if you read between the lines is what they really want. Obviously interacting with and dating an average man with no status is beneath women. 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

8 hours ago, AION said:

@Princess Arabia is the type of woman that you should go 50/50 on. Especially on the first date after you know you are not going to see her again. One shouldn’t encourage this kind of behavior. 
 

 

Or could just abruptly decide to stand up and excusing yourself that "you have to go to the bathroom" and then escape, leaving her to pay for 100% of the bill. That would be even better

[AION]

Most important is not if you pay or not if you are dating in a western culture. Or if you are good looking or not. Or how much money you have. Although all of these are variables at play and they do have an influence, most important is if you can make a connection with her and provide her fun/emotional intimacy/connection/etc. But the thing is that not all women have this western mindset.
What you don't have in emotional and social intelligence you have to make up for in other ways like with your wallet, looks, status, and so on. Most guys don't know how to develop emotional and social intelligence (granted it is very difficult to develop if you haven't developed in your teenage years) so they overcompensate with wealth, physique, status and so on. It does work. Imagine Elon Musk not having his wealth, status and money, it would be very hard for him to get a wife but if you have power women will give you a lot of leeway. The thing is that women don't know how much power you have the first moment you meet them so they go off pinging your emotional intelligence and social status because that is a good indicator how successful you are. This happens mostly subconscious. And if you fumble with who is going to pay, it shows that you don't have emotional and social intelligence but the thing is if a girl is a pain in the ass, you shouldn't care about what she feels about you. At the end you should do you and listen to your intuition which is of paramount worth, much more worth than some strange.

Edited January 29 by AION

[Sugarcoat]

18 minutes ago, AION said:

Most important is not if you pay or not if you are dating in a western culture. Or if you are good looking or not. Or how much money you have. Although all of these are variables at play and they do have an influence, most important is if you can make a connection with her and provide her fun/emotional intimacy/connection/etc. But the thing is that not all women have this western mindset.
What you don't have in emotional and social intelligence you have to make up for in other ways like with your wallet, looks, status, and so on. Most guys don't know how to develop emotional and social intelligence (granted it is very difficult to develop if you haven't developed in your teenage years) so they overcompensate with wealth, physique, status and so on. It does work. Image Elon Musk not having his wealth, status and money, it would be very hard for him to get a wife but if you have power women will give you a lot of leeway. The thing is that women don't know how much power you have the first moment you meet them so they go off pinging your emotional intelligence and social status because that is a good indicator how successful you are. This happens mostly subconscious.

Things like status and wealth can in some cases signal that the man has traits such as being ambitious, a leader, confident, charming, depending on how he acquired that status and wealth. So it’s like a woman might not be attracted to those things in and of themselves but rather what they signal about the man. Because it takes a special person to get to the top with status and wealth, although ofc not in all cases you can get there by being phony and exploitative too. 
 

A comparison could be like in high school if a popular guy is liked by many girls. Is he liked because he is popular or because of the traits that made him popular (for example charismatic and good looking)? Could be both. Because it can be like a boost to one’s own self image to have a successful partner. Same with having popular friends. And vice versa.

Edited January 29 by Sugarcoat

[AION]

The whole point of life is not to under or overcompensate but to find the middle way which is wisdom. Most people overcompensate because they were under compensated in their youth. This is the story of most wealthy people but also spiritual people. I mean Elon Musk wouldn't be Elon Musk if he didn't have a terrible childhood.

 

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, AION said:

The whole point of life is not to under or overcompensate but to find the middle way which is wisdom. Most people overcompensate because they were under compensated in their youth. This is the story of most wealthy people but also spiritual people. I mean Elon Musk wouldn't be Elon Musk if he didn't have a terrible childhood.

 

You mean that he had a bad childhood causing issues with self esteem which makes them overcompensate by trying to be for example smart and successful to gain self esteem? Or aquire wealth because they had little of it in childhood

[AION]

35 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Things like status and wealth can in some cases signal that the man has traits such as being ambitious, a leader, confident, charming, depending on how he acquired that status and wealth. So it’s like a woman might not be attracted to those things in and of themselves but rather what they signal about the man. Because it takes a special person to get to the top with status and wealth, although ofc not in all cases you can get there by being phony and exploitative too. 

Agreed but I don't think being a moral man is the gold standard for women.  Look around how many women are swirling around immoral powerful men.

Edited January 29 by AION

[AION]

In the game of survival, moral/immoral is not a thing at play. In love and war there are no rules. That is a very painful lesson that I learned. I wish I believed it the first moment I heard it but sometimes you need to suffer. 😅

Edited January 29 by AION

[Sugarcoat]

15 minutes ago, AION said:

Agreed but I don't think being a moral man is the gold standard for women.  Look around how much women are swirling around immoral powerful men.

That may be true but then we have to take into consideration the quality of women that they attract. A woman who is primarily attracted to a man’s power, money, status, or for being a manipulative player will probably be more shallow, perhaps insecure in herself, immature. It’s similar to how a woman with good looks will attract more men, but those that are primarily drawn to her because of her looks will not be as high quality. So those people attract more in quantity, but not necessarily in quality

Edited January 29 by Sugarcoat

[AION]

7 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

That may be true but then we have to take into consideration the quality of women that they attract. A woman who is primarily attracted to a man’s power, money, status, or for being a manipulative player will probably be more shallow, perhaps insecure in herself, immature. It’s similar to how a woman with good looks will attract more men, but those that are primarily drawn to her because of her looks will not be as high quality. So those people attract more in quantity, but not necessarily in quality

That is true but at least they are getting something. The regular nice guy is not getting any. Most guys would have something than nothing. 

[Salvijus]

Use your money in service to God only, and God will tell how to use that money. Problem solved 

[something_else]

28 minutes ago, AION said:

The regular nice guy is not getting any.

The regular nice guy with no social life isn't getting any.

Most of the 'regular nice guys' I've met who have an active social life are getting laid at least sometimes.

The idea that 'the regular nice guy is getting nothing' comes from incel subcultures that are composed of guys who are chronically online and rarely leave their house. They conclude that women must not like them because they are 'regular nice guys' but it isn't that. It's because they have no social skills.

[Consept]

Yeah first date simple almost pre-date, bar for a drink or coffee or shisha, cool place but not too expensive. I'd definitely pay the first date however it went, if it's buying rounds of drinks and they want to buy a round that's cool and prob a good sign. I wouldn't go for a meal or anything like that, it's more just getting to know each other and having a bit of fun

[Schizophonia]

Women want a powerful/available libidinal force. This can be translated in many ways, money, physical confidence, humor, anchoring, intelligence, availability, etc. A woman's needs will then vary depending on the overall context (are you in a poor country? for example) and especially their personality, and therefore their need (hole) when it comes to their personality.

[AION]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

The regular nice guy with no social life isn't getting any.

Most of the 'regular nice guys' I've met who have an active social life are getting laid at least sometimes.

The idea that 'the regular nice guy is getting nothing' comes from incel subcultures that are composed of guys who are chronically online and rarely leave their house. They conclude that women must not like them because they are 'regular nice guys' but it isn't that. It's because they have no social skills.

There are more sexless and single men than ever according to statistics. Just throwing everything on the fault of men is kind of sad and demeaning. 
 

I know a lot of good guys with friends and shit and can’t get a gf to save their life. 
 

They do have good communication skills and they would good fathers too. They are just a little insecure and don’t know what they are doing. 
 

There are a lot of complex explanations for the current phenomenon of modern day dating problems but it is not that easy as you make it out to be. 

Edited January 29 by AION

[AION]

18 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Women want a powerful/available libidinal force. This can be translated in many ways, money, physical confidence, humor, anchoring, intelligence, availability, etc. A woman's needs will then vary depending on the overall context (are you in a poor country? for example) and especially their personality, and therefore their need (hole) when it comes to their personality.

I never thought of a need as a hole. 🕳️ 

But it kind of makes sense and now I’m disturbed for having needs. 😭