Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[Natasha Tori Maru]

59 minutes ago, YIDIRYIDIR said:

I'm asking about the "Hold Off On Psychedelics If You're Young" blog post. I'm 23 and curious if trying a psychedelic once or twice to just experience ego death is okay or it will still effect me ? I've never tried psychedelics.

If you would enjoy my personal perspective? 

I align with Leo 100% regarding sobriety until well into your 20s. You want to let your brain fully develop and mature without its structure forming with the addition of substances that can destablise you. 

In every person I know who engaged in substance use prior to mid 20s, emotional disregulation occured. This emotional disregulation interferes with cognitive clarity & ability. Discipline and control of ones faculties is compromised with internal disregulation. 

There are some individuals who are genetically very resistant to external substance abuse, but it is not a fire you want to risk being burned by.

There is simply a HUGE amount of insight, beauty and intelligence to be absorbed from sobar reality. Enough to extract and keep you occupied until later when you wish to engage on the psychedelic path. 

The ability to delay gratification is a powerful indicator of self mastery. It will teach you to sit with discomfort. 

I was pretty much sobar until 23 years old. Perhaps one or two drinks, a couple of puffs of weed once. Hardcore psychedelics for me came around 28. 

It is hard to resist if you are high openness and insanely curious 😁

Edited Monday at 11:45 PM by Natasha Tori Maru

[Lila9]

15 minutes ago, gengar said:

That is true, but you have to also realize that LGBTQ people are less selfish and evil than straight people because they are playing a side game and are not the ones having children (which is the main game).

Children born from the straight world join LGTBQ, but not the other way around, since almost no children are born from the LGBTQ world. all in all, LGTBQ are not responsible for human species' survival and thus "outsource" much evil to the straight world. 

I understand your grievance, but a lot of it is simply due to the game theory of biology and survival. Nature wants us to be brutal, while spirituality wants us to be not.

I see. This makes some sense from this perspective. However, I don’t really know whether LGBTQ+ people are less selfish or not, and I also think that game theory is too limited.

I don’t believe that our survival is only about raw brutality.

It is also dependent on our ability to cooperate, imagine, adapt, and create.

[Giancarlo]

@Leo Gura I agree that psychedelics will derail your focus on money (experiencing that now 😅). But should you even try to build a relationship/family in your 20s if you know you're going to go hardcore mystic later on? Being disenchanted with money really only affects me, but it seems much more dangerous when other people depend on you...

[RisingLane]

"I'm more Muslim than most Muslims."

As someone raised in that religion, I find this very funny.

Leo is the first genuine Muslim I have known in this life—a true submitter to God.

[Leo Gura]

39 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

and then they say women tell men to “just be themselves.”

Well, this is specifically in the context of how to talk to women.

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Giancarlo said:

But should you even try to build a relationship/family in your 20s if you know you're going to go hardcore mystic later on?

That is hard to say. Most people will not be going hardcore mystic.

Having kids is a huge decision, but relationships is easy enough to combine with mysticism.

You can find ways to combine mysticism and family life and even kids. Delay one or the other. Either do your mysticism before you start a family or after your kids leave the nest. It all depends on your desires.

Kriya yoga is designed for householders. So you can do it while you have a family.

Edited Tuesday at 12:31 AM by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

@Lila9 What are the best feminist books you've read?

[Miguel1]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Both.

The woman will not be happy in the relationship long-term if the man loses his center and starts orbiting her.

Feminine energy orbits the masculine.

This shouldn't be a desperate needy chasing, but a healthy kind of orbiting/following.

This is what Owen means by strong frame, or frame control btw, that you have disagreed with before.

[Miguel1]

7 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Leo Gura I do not agree. Persuit for a man is a big thing in my experience, in attraction phase.

Within the bounds of relationship I can understand containment might mean the feminine leans in the structure of the masculine. But chasing stops at that point. Or it should, in a healthy mature relationship. 

Containment/stability is different to chasing/persuit.

 

Whenever discussing dating here, we have to consider the level in which majority of people dates, and then the level where more mature people practice dating.

[Xonas Pitfall]

5 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I'm asking about the "Hold Off On Psychedelics If You're Young" blog post. I'm 23 and curious if trying a psychedelic once or twice to just experience ego death is okay or it will still effect me ? I've never tried psychedelics.

I personally started at 18. 

I’m not sure I would recommend it, but I’m glad I did for myself. The trick is that, after a few trips, I eventually realized the “burning through karma” concept. You just feel during the trip that there are so many things your ego is still clinging to and worrying about, mostly survival or ego-related, that prevent you from having a more open and flowing mind. I would think about things beyond myself, but then my mind kept asking, “But how do you know? You haven’t experienced this or that. Absolutely none of it. Who do you think you are?” I had a lot of self-doubt. I feel like if you are too young, you just don’t have enough life confidence to even ground yourself properly, especially if you can’t yet feed and shelter yourself independently.

So for me, if anything, it helped because I kept feeling blocked, and it motivated me to get my survival in order. But it’s tricky to know whether you would have the same response, because it’s very subjective. I feel like there’s no clear answer. It’s too case-dependent.

Edited Tuesday at 04:59 AM by Xonas Pitfall

[Miguel1]

6 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

You are defining terms differently is all.

I personally think insecure women think being persued by a man is gross. I've never been turned off by this. Neediness is something else entirely. I am not speaking about neediness. 

You speak like @Emerald

Dont forget that you guys are playing the conscious dating game.

Most women will not be very excited being chased / pursued by a man. They want to be the pursuer, cuz they are addicted to drama.

I talk from experience.

[Miguel1]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That is what HoeMath is suggesting his audience does.

Women don't help a man make himself, though. Women often discourage it. "Just be yourself".

To make oneself requires understanding the gap between what one is and what one needs to become. That's why men require lots of coaching on this matter. There are many ways to go wrong.

We definitely need more healthy role-models and coaches for men and especially young men. Man, perhaps I need to step up.

[Staples]

Just seeing the name of his channel 'Hoe Math' is enough to see this guy is a cooker.

Gender wars are stupid.

[Miguel1]

5 hours ago, RisingLane said:

"I'm more Muslim than most Muslims."

As someone raised in that religion, I find this very funny.

Leo is the first genuine Muslim I have known in this life—a true submitter to God.

I grew up with many muslim friends in my life. They are full of shit, and purely virtue signaling.

It is funny indeed.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Miguel1 yep - which is why I try to always stress and give proper context. All meanings change without it. I personally do not think it is healthy to want to engage in processes that attract a low conscious quality of relationship. If you follow the dialogue you will see we define what phases are being spoken about - attraction vs within relationship. I don't personally ever speak about feminine / masculine dynamics from the point of view of unhealthy dynamics. 

If people want to exploit an unhealthy insecure type of attraction dynamic that is fine but it's not what is normal and healthy. 

I don't know what you mean by 'I speak like @Emerald'. These are my own opinions and thoughts. What was your intention there? 

25 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

I personally started at 18. 

I’m not sure I would recommend it, but I’m glad I did for myself. The trick is that, after a few trips, I eventually realized the “burning through karma” concept. You just feel during the trip that there are so many things your ego is still clinging to and worrying about, mostly survival or ego-related, that prevent you from having a more open and flowing mind. I would think about things beyond myself, but then my mind kept asking, “But how do you know? You haven’t experienced this or that. Absolutely none of it. Who do you think you are?” I had a lot of self-doubt. I feel like if you are too young, you just don’t have enough life confidence to even ground yourself properly, especially if you can’t yet feed and shelter yourself independently.

So for me, if anything, it helped because I kept feeling blocked, and it motivated me to get my survival in order. But it’s tricky to know whether you would have the same response, because it’s very subjective. I feel like there’s no clear answer. It’s too case-dependent.

I agree it is very case dependant - I always err on the side of caution 😀 

Thanks for sharing !

Edited Tuesday at 05:24 AM by Natasha Tori Maru

[Xonas Pitfall]

9 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Most women will not be very excited being chased / pursued by a man. They want to be the pursuer, cuz they are addicted to drama.

I talk from experience.

18 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Both.

The woman will not be happy in the relationship long-term if the man loses his center and starts orbiting her.

Feminine energy orbits the masculine.

This shouldn't be a desperate needy chasing, but a healthy kind of orbiting/following.

I think a better frame is that there are people who are more orbit-like (more dependent, people-pleasing, other-focused) and some people who are more orbit-line (more independent, immovable, self-focused). Some people can endlessly pursue with no issues, and some people hate the feeling of chasing because they need extra security and clarity in confidence that the other person is genuinely interested in them. This is more a personality trait or preference than a gender thing, to be honest. There are also people who like to “reach beyond” what they think they can get, so they don’t mind pushing further and assuming they have to work for it, and in the end, they feel satisfied when they get what they wanted.

• That’s where you get common tropes like a man seeing a woman as a muse or a siren, a symbol of beauty, and perfection to admire. And will do anything in his power to keep and protect her. In a more toxic form, you see this in the “simp” meme.
• Then you also get the opposite trope: a woman who adores her man, wants to please him, and deeply admires him. In a more toxic form, this can resemble BPD-meme patterns of obsession, drama, etc.

I actually think kink communities sometimes understand this a bit better, ironically, haha, because they don’t frame it strictly as man-woman dynamics, but more as dominance and submission, attachment roles, and psychological preferences. I’ve met men who genuinely enjoy adoring their partner, and women who genuinely enjoy being adored. In those cases, the relationship can work very well. I’ve also seen the opposite, and more “equal” dynamics, too.

But I also think that once the initial phase passes, if neither person is able to shift out of being only the adorer or only the adored, the relationship can struggle long-term. For a successful long-term partnership, these roles will naturally switch back and forth. Plus, if you are a spiritual person, this should excite you because you get to experience both yourself making someone else feel like God/Love, and also someone making you feel that way in return.

I feel like people often treat dating like politics, as if it’s a team sport, like “does red win or does blue win?” It becomes competitive in a way that misses the point. Gender and dating are often treated similarly, which is unfortunate. "Should the woman or the man submit? Who should love whom more? Who is the actual sucker here?"

The ego has and needs both sides. It’s a fundamental principle of holism. Just like everything is a holon, the ego is one too. The ego has two sides: the admirer and the admired.

1. It wants someone to admire so it can feel love, humility, and connection. When you have someone as an “other,” they can become almost mesmerizing in a way that makes you feel expanded or stunned by their beauty, whatever form that takes. So you get both the ego humbling itself enough to experience real love and a sense of expansion.
2. But the ego also wants to be admired so it can feel safe, valued, and appreciated. So it can also be touched by someone’s love and gentleness, and actually let go of its defenses, allowing it to expand more toward ego dissolution and love.

Both men and women have this ego structure, and if neither side is being met in a relationship, it becomes very hard to maintain anything stable or long-term. 

But again, I never really know if we are talking about hookup culture and dating strategies, or actual long-term spiritual relationships. If you mean the initial stage, then yes, you probably do not care that much about the person themselves, but more about what you can get from them. So to maximize results, you need to be receptive to people who are easier “wins” (who like you way more, that is.) That applies to both genders. If women don’t choose men who genuinely like them a lot or even more, they also tend to suffer.

If we are talking about actual relationships, these concepts are quite meaningless. You need to deeply understand your partner’s preferences and not assume you already know what they want.

[Xonas Pitfall]

13 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I always err on the side of caution 😀 

Agreed! I suppose I was just a little rebellious Shroom monkey. . . 👽🙈

[Xonas Pitfall]

Quote

A proper conservative needs to have an air-tight asshole. Like Jordan Peterson. That's a true tight-ass. You can feel his asshole clinch just by seeing his face.

🤣

[Leo Gura]

58 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I don't know what you mean by 'I speak like @Emerald'.

He means you lack a penis.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Miguel1 said:

This is what Owen means by strong frame, or frame control btw, that you have disagreed with before.

Something about the way he says it makes it seem too try-hard.

Maybe I'm being unfair.