Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@UnbornTao brah you have adopted Ralston's phrasing and mannerisms in your text 

You sound like a remix of his YouTube clips, Brandan & UnbornTao. A new being is born ! 

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, Stick said:

If you come up with a better theory for gravitation with all the proof, people especially in the science community will regard you highly.

Only if it is socially acceptable.

"With all the proof" is a very loaded notion. The point is my proof will not be socially acceptable and therefore denied.

I gave a better explanation of Reality than all of physics. Does science regard me highly? No. And it never will, regardless of what proof is presented. Because it was never about the proof.

Quote

That is what happened with Einstein.

Einstein's theory was relatively socially acceptable because it did not seriously subvert the scientfic, academic paradigm. He worked inside the system and the system was not significantly threatened.

The only reason you even know about Einstein is social acceptability. You have not verified anything Einstein said. Einstein won the social acceptance game, so now we talk about him with high regard.

Einstein's view of gravity could be deeply wrong, and you will never know it, because you just trust what society feels about it.

Edited 12 hours ago by Leo Gura

[museumoftrees]

I like the new blog font!! :))

[Joseph Maynor]

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Only if it is socially acceptable.

"With all the proof" is a very loaded notion. The point is my proof will not be socially acceptable and therefore denied.

I gave a better explanation of Reality than all of physics. Does science regard me highly? No. And it never will, regardless of what proof is presented. Because it was never about the proof.

Einstein's theory was relatively socially acceptable because it did not seriously subvert the scientfic, academic paradigm. He worked inside the system and the system was not significantly threatened.

The only reason you even know about Einstein is social acceptability. You have not verified anything Einstein said. Einstein won the social acceptance game, so now we talk about him with high regard.

Einstein's view of gravity could be deeply wrong, and you will never know it, because you just trust what society feels about it.

Einstein's story might compete with your story?

[Yimpa]

13 hours ago, Yimpa said:

That is wrong.

 

[Leo Gura]

58 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Einstein's story might compete with your story?

Einstein did not understand what i am teaching you.

[Thought Art]

8 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

There's a reason why it's much, much harder to sell snake oil as a mathematician or physicist than as a spiritualist or guru.

 

I think this is a historically Dubious claim! Harder but not impossible. Plenty of snake oil science today. But, yes more spiritual snake oil. 

@Natasha Tori Maru I read his whole comment in Peter’s voice (hello)

Edited 9 hours ago by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

There's a reason why it's much, much harder to sell snake oil as a mathematician or physicist than as a spiritualist or guru.

That actually means it requires more intelligence to do good spirituality than good mathematics or physics. The fact that no one can peer-review your work makes the work all the more self-deceptive and challenging. It doesn't take much epistemic skill to follow the rules of math like a machine. It takes extraordinary intelligence to do spirituality and not make any mistakes because no system exists to save you. Spirituality is like threading a needle. Science is like driving down a highway.

It is not hard to sell snake oil as a scientist. String theorists have been doing it for 50 years

Edited 9 hours ago by Leo Gura

[vibv]

11 hours ago, Yimpa said:

 

It's imaginary. But not like you think  

Imagination is way more powerful than any human could comprehend.

[UnbornTao]

6 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@UnbornTao brah you have adopted Ralston's phrasing and mannerisms in your text 

You sound like a remix of his YouTube clips, Brandan & UnbornTao. A new being is born ! 

I've always talked like this, but whatever.

I gather that if people feel called out, it might have stirred something in them.

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

I think this is a historically Dubious claim! Harder but not impossible. Plenty of snake oil science today. But, yes more spiritual snake oil. 

I'm not saying it's impossible.

Edited 6 hours ago by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That actually means it requires more intelligence to do good spirituality than good mathematics or physics. The fact that no one can peer-review your work makes the work all the more self-deceptive and challenging. It doesn't take much epistemic skill to follow the rules of math like a machine. It takes extraordinary intelligence to do spirituality and not make any mistakes because no system exists to save you. Spirituality is like threading a needle. Science is like driving down a highway.

It is not hard to sell snake oil as a scientist. String theorists have been doing it for 50 years

'Tis the bitch of the human mind:

 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

'Tis the bitch of the human mind:

 

That's a classic.

[LambdaDelta]

Curious synchronicity with the mosquito quote, opened the blog to it not even 10 mins after sending this

 

Edited 4 hours ago by LambdaDelta

[UnbornTao]

The overall criticisms of science can be levelled at virtually anything. You aren't an honest actor. Now do the same with spirituality, and with the followers of those paths. Expand on the points addressed in the fake spirituality episode. And let burn what needs to burn - especially because it will apply to us, Leo included, and to this place.

@Leo Gura What do you expect people to do with some of the blog posts (particularly the more existential ones) other than believe you? You present assertions as true, and that's often the end of it. Have you thought about what effect they have on people when it comes down to it?

Edited 1 hour ago by UnbornTao

[Leo Gura]

@UnbornTao I expect you to contemplate and to do philosophy. I teach advanced things and I'm not going to keep repeating myself. I expect everyone here to be intelligent enough to know they need to do philosophical work.

If you are not doing the philosophical work then that's on you. And I should be chastising you for that, not you me.

You are like a child crying about other kids who don't do their homework.

I am not going to force anyone here to do homework. If you don't do the homework, tough luck.

This is like a university. Nobody in university holds your hand and forces you do homework. In university, if you don't force yourself to do homework you will just flunk out. That's how advanced intellectual work goes.

Everyone is free to flunk out of Actualized.org.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@UnbornTao I expect you to contemplate and to do philosophy. I teach advanced things and I'm not going to keep repeating myself. I expect everyone here to be intelligent enough to know they need to philosophy.

If you are not doing the philosophical work then that's on you. And I should chastising you for that, not you me.

You are like a child crying about other kids who don't do their homework.

I know the theory. And look at what happens in practice for people, which you tend to encourage, even if unknowingly. It relates to @zurew point about adopting the same terminology.

I think an episode on belief would be in order. I don't think you are clear on that matter either. But then we'd start believing in belief rather than looking at the real dynamic at play.

Edited 2 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

But look at what happens in practice for people

In practice many people flunk out of university.

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In practice many people flunk out of university.

Go over @zurew's points again. I feel some of the antagonism is directed at that kind of analysis. You'd be easily swayed by people here talking the way you do. In practice, the theory might not be directed at what it claims on paper. Surely you know people just end up following you, even though they try to hide it under a spiritual cloak - "Think for yourself," "mental sovereignty," and so on.

Edited 1 hour ago by UnbornTao

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Surely you know people just end up following you

I have serious work to do.

I cannot babysit thousands of people to ensure they all do their homework. Most won't do it anyways.

I am developing serious courses and books that will guide people through the entire epistemic process. But that takes a lot of time and work to create.

On the blog I make statements and claims. A blog cannot be a course in epistemology. The blog is me throwing out insights that will be more fully explained in courses and books.

If Albert Einstein had a blog, it would not teach you how to do basic physics. For that you enroll in a university course. And Albert Einstein would not be prodding you to do your homework.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura