Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[puporing]

3 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@puporing Are you saying I need to realize I am Jesus Christ?

I have had an awakening like this. I just didn't let it go to my head. 

Well, that's not my call, it has to be from you genuinely rather than forced.

For me it is genuine and nobody is forcing me.

And it depends on what you want to do with that after.

Edited March 27 by puporing

[Thought Art]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't get hung up on English specifically. My point is not limited to English. It also applies to God communicating to you through spiral shapes, Aztec faces, space rats, geometric orbits, dancing jesters, flashing colors, emotions, or anything else. Those are all mediums for Intelligence to create self-understanding.

My point is to appreciate how the finite medium enables self-understanding and not to attempt to reduce it down.

So when a Christian sees Jesus in his pancake, there's something profound happening there beyond the naive literalist account of it.

Your point is coming off as slippery. I am not sure we know where we are going with this.

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

However, notice how Language does has connections to Ego which can't fully be separated. Well, consider what you consider a loss of Ego, isn't complete.

There is some truth to that.

But still, language capacity should not be associated with ego.

Do you really want to claim that all spiritual masters never transcended ego just because they can speak a language? Not a good standard to set.

Quote

States of consciousness exist where there is no language or even memory of being human.

Sure, of course such states of consciousness are possible.

But that doesn't undermine the language-rich states.

Quote

I don't understand @puporing or not nature of "I am the second coming of Christ". Perhaps, for them this is something genuine. 

I'm not specifically speaking of Puporing. Just making a broader point.

Quote

But, we have an issue here. You speak of Christianity of a social construct, yet it seems like you are also saying... Well, it's all God. Which is true.

Of course both are true. And more complexity beyond that.

It's certainly easy to mix ego, self-deception, and genuine mystical experiences of Christ together into an elaborate fantasy. That's mostly what I would say advanced Christians are doing.

But there is this extra weirdness of Consciousness where if you start buy into your fantasy deeply enough it starts to become reality. That's why stuff like faith works.

Quote

@Leo Gura This is something I don't understand. If God is consciousness, why would it need a medium to operate through? The only reason it would have to do that is because in this current state, as a human, I have limitations and constraints put in place right? To keep this dream consistent. Something isn't adding up here.

In the purely Infinite state God can't really even comprehend itself because it's too formless, because comprehension requires some degree of form. But the mistake here is to then say that comprehension is somehow not needed or inferior and that formless is the only goal.

Edited March 27 by Leo Gura

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

@Leo Gura Yeah, because people who never heard of Christ are known to have Christ awakenings... Right.

Jan Esmann was not a Hindu but met Krishna as a blue being. Just a funny story.

Edited March 27 by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Jan Esmann was not a Hindu but met Krishna as a blue being. Just a funny story.

I'm not Australian but I can meet a kangaroo.

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura

 

[Leo Gura]

@Thought Art That gives me an idea for a cereal brand for Christians. All the bits are either G, O, or D.

That's a billion dollar idea right here. Christians will eat it up.

Pay Jordan Peterson to be the mascot.

You can make so much money trolling Christians.

Edited March 27 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura I agree with you. This has been an odd conversation for me. 
 

I am pretty familiar with your work. The idea of Truth, consciousness and actuality being God is my framing and orientation. I recognize, though I don’t fully understand it that my hands are Gods hands. 5meodmt, nnDMT experiences helped with that recontextualization. 
 

 

Edited March 27 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Your point is coming off as slippery.

Slippery is my middle name

[puporing]

@Thought Art It's not something I can easily explain here, because you guys are a lot more "logic leaning" than "heart leaning" than where I was when I found "Jesus". 

The "heart aspect" of awakening is not easy to teach as you can imagine, other than through certain demonstrations from me and your own discovery.

And this aspect is what makes me still very alien to you. 

I would say this is perhaps the key to the block to where I am.

As well, most of my life was an escape from hell, such that no teacher could understand or help me except for Jesus. I know it sounds cliche, but in a sense he "saved me". And perhaps the lack of such kind of experiences like I had is what prevents people from awakening further as well.

Edited March 27 by puporing

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

@Leo Gura I agree with you. This has been an odd conversation for me. 
 

I am pretty familiar with your work. The idea of Truth, consciousness and actuality being God is my framing and orientation. I recognize, though I don’t fully understand it that my hands are Gods hands. 5meodmt, nnDMT experiences helped with that recontextualization. 

You're doing great. I'm just adding the next layer to it. Like an extra credit assignment.

[Davino]

7 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Leo Gura Yeah, because people who never heard of Christ are known to have Christ awakenings... Right.

Well literally many prophets from Judaism like Isaiah or Micah had mystical experience of Christ before it incarnated. So watch out with being simple minded, everything is very intricate, and truth, falsehood and self-deception intermingles.

You can find historical quotes of what I'm saying.

 

Edit: The full conversation has many nuances, just made a quick point, excuse me for not addressing the full picture.

Edited March 27 by Davino

[Davino]

@Leo Gura Really loved your last quote. I feel you're getting to the juice of the matter lately.

It remembered me of the prayer: Oh God I know you're everything, all-encompassing Infinity, please manifest to me in your Godly Form!

[Leo Gura]

@Davino I prefer:

Oh God I know you're everything, all-encompassing Infinity, please manifest to me in a slice of pizza!

[Davino]

[LifeEnjoyer]

 

[Sincerity]

[Yimpa]

@Sincerity awww I love their long feet, reminds me of a cute clown 

[Nilsi]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are correct that in the end things hinge on one's values, and there is no objectively correct set of values. My values are not objectively best, nor would I ever claim that. However, one's choice of values matters a lot in terms of where you'll end up.

Actualized.org is about a certain set of values which are designed to take one to very high places. If you disagree with the values you can find other teaching with others priorities. But, your understanding of God will suffer for it. If you don't care about understanding God, then fair enough. There is nothing I can say to make you care. And yes, there are tradeoffs. Your social life will take a hit. Your career may take a hit. Your family may take a hit. Those are some of the costs, and most people will not want to make those tradeoffs.

But, then they lose the right to speak about God because they know not what they say. If you select your family over Truth, then you lose the right to speak about Truth because your ideas about it will be corrupt.

Any value prioritzed over truth will lead to corruption. This must be the case and people like Jordan do not understand this.

It is not true that placing beauty or love over truth will lead to the same place. It will not. It must end in corruption.

Not as hard as you make it sound.

I suggest something deeper is at play. They never even understood the import of pure understanding.

They are lost, but it is their right to be lost.

No, they aren't.

They are doing much less profound work. But you are right that that's not wrong per se. They just don't know what they are missing.

Yes, philosophers can have smaller aims than God and there is utility to those smaller aims. For example, Vlad Vexler is a great political philosopher but totally clueless about God. Is he wrong? Not really. But also, he cannot even imagine what he's missing. I would never criticize him about his lack of understanding of God because he doesn't pretend to know. Jordan Hall presents Christianity is a valid path towards God. This is where I must come in to say that that is an advanced self-deception.

The reason I exist is to tell people what they're missing, because they don't even know. If a Christian knew how much he was missing, he would drop Christianity immediately. But the mind is so closed that it will never know.

You sorta just have to trust me that something huge is being missed.  But of course you cannot know whether I'm right or wrong. In the end, no matter which teaching you follow, you have to trust that it will lead you somewhere higher than other teachings. There's no way around this problem.

Christainity makes certain claims. I make alternative claims. Who is more right? Only you can figure that out.

Let me ask you a simple but serious question:

Is it not conceivable that one could know exactly what they’re “missing” - and still affirm their choice?

Isn’t that, in fact, how incarnation even happens in your cosmology? God, being omniscient and omnipotent, would not have incarnated blindly or ignorantly. It knew precisely what it was giving up by becoming finite, temporal, embodied. And yet it chose to do so - not in spite of its knowing, but because of it. Because even in its absolute fullness, it knew there was something missing: the experience of lack, of separation, of individuation.

This, I suggest, is not just a mythic event but a cosmic pattern, a structure that can repeat itself “on earth as it is in heaven.” In other words, the genesis of divinity into limitation can recur within the human soul.

Now, if such a possibility exists - wouldn’t you agree, given the nature of infinity, that every genuine possibility is also, somewhere, actual? Infinity does not contain mere hypotheticals. It contains actualities.

So if this movement from divine totality into embodied seeking is possible, then it is also actual. And if it is actual, it can be found.

Wouldn’t you also agree that if someone is absolutely determined to actualize such a possibility, then the universe - or God, if you prefer - will conspire to make a path available?

And isn’t it then possible - maybe even likely - that such a path could lead directly through texts like Phenomenology of Spirit, Thus Spoke Zarathustra, Écrits, or Difference and Repetition? Not because they’re canonical, but because they happen to be locations where such a metaphysical movement has already been inscribed, encoded, made manifest in language and form?

Which would also explain why so many academics who approach these texts merely as objects of study remain clueless. They lack the existential drive, the metaphysical thirst, that alone allows such works to be properly read - and lived.

Because such an actuality, if it exists, would only disclose itself to the earnest seeker, not to the casual browser or intellectual tourist. You won’t arrive there through skimming Wikipedia or prompting ChatGPT.

So again I ask: Are you truly not open to the possibility that you’re missing something?

[Terell Kirby]

Damn .. God IS Satan! 

Satan is a figment of God's Consciousness 

Satan belongs to Existence, and Existence Belongs to God .. better yet, Existence IS God 

This is why Christianity is such a pipe dream .. it all makes sense now