1 liter of soy milk per day completely supress testosterone.

[Jannes]

15 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I read somewhere once that soy milk increases estrogen. It increases chances of breast cancer, (Just saying what I've read before, not my findings). I personally don't drink it but only because I don't feel like and have no need to. I also read before that soy is best consumed in fermented form like tofu and to avoid edamame.

It's advised for women to eat tofu because it decreases the chance of breast cancer!! 

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Jannes said:

It's advised for women to eat tofu because it decreases the chance of breast cancer!! 

Yes, I also read that, but I also read the opposite. Personally, I don't think it causes it. Here's a video on it. 

 

Edited September 26, 2024 by Princess Arabia

[Keryo Koffa]

On 6/29/2023 at 10:56 PM, Schizophonia said:

gnegnegne

On 2/1/2024 at 1:22 PM, Schizophonia said:

gnegnegne

On 2/14/2024 at 6:33 PM, Schizophonia said:

gnegnegne

On 5/16/2024 at 4:44 PM, Schizophonia said:

gnegnegne

On 6/4/2024 at 8:27 PM, Schizophonia said:

gnegnegne

On 7/19/2024 at 6:07 PM, Schizophonia said:

Gnegnegne

On 8/2/2024 at 11:11 PM, Schizophonia said:

gnegnegne

On 9/23/2024 at 7:55 PM, Schizophonia said:

gnegnegne

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

gnegnegne

2 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I can’t with this noise

On 9/24/2024 at 9:18 PM, Sugarcoat said:

gnegnegne

@Sugarcoat In that case let me blast the speakers full volume with @Schizophonia's mind-jam

There's also a GneGneGne song, gnegnegne Kris, Fortnite GneGneGne rap & Gnegnegne on acid

Edited September 26, 2024 by Keryo Koffa

[LSD-Rumi]

Some topics are best approached with an extra dose of skepticism considering how common myths are about them. The Soyboy alpha male propaganda is one of these.

[Sugarcoat]

8 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

@Sugarcoat In that case let me blast the speakers full volume with @Schizophonia's mind-jam

There's also a GneGneGne song, gnegnegne Kris, Fortnite GneGneGne rap & Gnegnegne on acid

Cool

[eos_nyxia]

How does drinking that much soy milk not give people the farts/ shits, lol.

Also: East Asian people would never.

Edited September 27, 2024 by eos_nyxia

[Leo Gura]

I had a girlfriend who got super horny from taking isoflavenoid soy supplements.

If you got a girlfriend, feed her a gallon of soy every day and you will be a happy man 

Edited September 27, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Schizophonia]

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I had a girlfriend who got super horny from taking isoflavenoid soy supplements.

If you got a girlfriend, feed her a gallon of soy every day and you will be a happy man 

Ahahah.

Did it make her irritable ?

 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Did it make her irritable ?

Not that I know of.

[Schizophonia]

11 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

@Sugarcoat In that case let me blast the speakers full volume with @Schizophonia's mind-jam

There's also a GneGneGne song, gnegnegne Kris, Fortnite GneGneGne rap & Gnegnegne on acid

I love karim debbache !

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not that I know of.

Ok so much the better.

This is what i eventually would expect from a high estrogen state.

[Sugarcoat]

@Schizophonia what do you think of Bryan Johnson’s diet? The guy who tries to reverse aging

[Schizophonia]

46 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

@Schizophonia what do you think of Bryan Johnson’s diet? The guy who tries to reverse aging

It doesn't looks good and it's seems troublesome to be implemented, also Bryan has to be on HRT because of the calorie deficit to "decrease cell division" ; He can't maintain a healthy endocrine system and metabolism in general...

Then he does what he want i don't care but i don't want to worry too much about my food, it has to keep being easy and a pleasure so i will stick to my vanilla ice cream for now lol.

Edited September 27, 2024 by Schizophonia

[PsychedelicEagle]

Bryan Johnson sustains erections for as long as the titanic movie every night while sleeping.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, PsychedelicEagle said:

Bryan Johnson sustains erections for as long as the titanic movie every night while sleeping.

TMI

[Sugarcoat]

4 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

It doesn't looks good and it's seems troublesome to be implemented, also Bryan has to be on HRT because of the calorie deficit to "decrease cell division" ; He can't maintain a healthy endocrine system and metabolism in general...

Then he does what he want i don't care but i don't want to worry too much about my food, it has to keep being easy and a pleasure so i will stick to my vanilla ice cream for now lol.

What has hormone replacement therapy to do with decreasing cell division? Enlighten me if you want

yea i agree it seems he doesn’t eat that much, and it’s all plant based I thought he would be omnivore. Doesn’t look too appetizing either 

and he takes a bunch of supplements seemingly to compensate for the diet idk. He said he took over a hundred a day 

vanilla ice cream is bomb👍🏻

Edited September 27, 2024 by Sugarcoat

[mmKay]

2 hours ago, PsychedelicEagle said:

Bryan Johnson sustains erections for as long as the titanic movie every night while sleeping.

How do YOU know? 🤔

Just the fact that he's on a chronic calorie deficit can screw up his libido

Personal take though 

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

The study says 310mg in about 1.2L , which works to be about 26 mg of isoflavones per 100 ml. This is about 3 times the amount of isoflavone as a common soy milk (soy drink, item 99043). Immediately, this tells me that what he drank was some sort of concentrated formula like a fortified soy drink or a soy protein or something with added isoflavones. Maybe it was recommended to him for prostate cancer risk...who knows? We don't care.

1)The more simple would be that the information about isoflavones in the carton content was wrong. 

Btw there are other similar cases :

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18558591/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33818045/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21353476/

 

2)Even if isoflavones was added, it would be the prove that isoflavones are strongly estrogenic and can even stop HPTA axis of some reasons (sensitivity and bindings duration in the pituitary gland, something like that i guess).

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

Going back to the USDA database, let's say an average soy consumer would eat 200g of tofu per day, 1 teaspoon of miso with soup and 250ml of soy milk with coffee (I'm making these numbers up) 

• 250mg tofu - the values seem to differ but I've picked line item 99529 with 22.05mg per 100g portion. - total (2.5*22) = 55 mg 
• miso - 1 teaspoon  - line item 16112, 89mg / 100 mg so say a teaspoon is about 4 grams so you get basically less than 1mg of isoflavones 
• and then soy milk we already talked about 7.85mg * 2 = about 16mg 
• total daily soy intake - 55 + 1 + 16 = 72mg 

I am also assuming that this person goes up and down right? They don't drink the same thing. Sometimes they drink oat milk. Sometimes they eat tempeh instead of tofu or maybe even chicken or pork if they're not vegan. So let's say they average out at 65mg of isoflavones per day? That means it would take this person between 4-5 days to achieve the same volume of isoflavone as the guy in the study. 

So I would say that in normal amounts, you're unlikely to see soy having effects on testosterone. But in excess for a long time, such as what this guy did, it may be too aggressive, and your testo might start going down indeed. But it seems to go away once the food is discontinued.

 

You can be hypogonadal all day, and if you metabolize isoflavones well, find normal LH and therefore testosterone levels in the morning on an empty stomach, so when you go to have your blood test.

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

It was interesting to see him developing gynaecomastia tho, I wonder if this was from the soy drink or not. I'd like to see more on this. 

 

That gets reversed once he stopped consume soy.

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

Why is it said that soy is bad and causes cancer? 

We know from the evidence that certain cancers like breast cancer and ovarian cancer in women are strongly driven by excessive oestrogen in circulation. This is because these tissues have a high concentration of Oestrogen Receptors Alpha, and most biological oestrogens dock into these receptors.

In a growing woman, this is desirable. The expression of Oestrogen Receptor Alpha (meaning when oestrogen docks into it) helps cells divide, increases tissue growth, and increases the speed of sexual maturation. It helps a young woman hit puberty, grow breast tissue, trigger the menstrual cycle and prepare for future pregnancy. 

Where oestrogen starts becoming problematic is when it is very high later on in life such as during 30s 40s and 50s. Because excessive stimulation of Oestrogen Receptors Alpha can stimulate growth of tissue and whenever that happens, the risk of cancer goes up. 

And because soy isoflavones look like oestrogens, it was thought that if we have more of them in the body, it will be the same as having more biological oestrogen. 

Which is not true because of ....Oestrogen Receptor Beta 

It was found that although soy isoflavones look like oestrogens, they primarily dock to Oestrogen Receptor Beta. Different from Alpha. A docking to this receptor is associated with reduced growth of tumours, reduced inflammation and generally protective effects against cancers.

This is also how Tamoxifen, a common medication for Breast Cancer patients, works as well and it is why it is so incredibly effective. 

Soy isoflavones from tofu, tempeh, soy and miso do exactly the same and this is why they are considered protective. 

It is why: 

• isoflavones reduce risk of breast cancer
• isoflavones reduce risk prostate cancer - because soy reduces DHT levels in men and also because of beta receptor stimulation
• isoflavones reduce risk of lung cancer  because Beta receptors are also found in lungs 
• isoflavones reduce risk of gastrointestinal cancers and colorectal cancers

 

Yes but ORB is still oestrogenic and HPTA suppresive.

+ DHT and metabolites (androsterone and androstenediol) have benefits for cognition, bones and muscles mass, libido, and even to antagonise oestradiol (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0022473183911287 )

If soy delete DHT by 5ar as propecia it will also delete 5a-DHP and Allopregnenolone.

 

 

[Schizophonia]

43 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

What has hormone replacement therapy to do with decreasing cell division?

Because it decreases growth factors (igf1, mTOR...)

If the cells divide less quickly, you will supposedly last longer over time because the more cells divide, the more telomeres shorten and lose their ability to divide properly and therefore ultimately to divide at all, and automatically you more and more look "older".
I don't know exactly the consequences of this on the quality of life, probably not so good especially since I have seen a lot of testimonies that growth hormone inducers like the ghrelin agonist ibutamoren, or direct injections of growth hormones allow you to feel good, improve the quality of your skin, improve sleep etc.

43 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Enlighten me if you want

 

Ofc my great full of prolactin grasshopper.

43 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

 

yea i agree it seems he doesn’t eat that much, and it’s all plant based I thought he would be omnivore. Doesn’t look too appetizing either 

and he takes a bunch of supplements seemingly to compensate for the diet idk. He said he took over a hundred a day

Yes it's a nutcase, lol.

He also had multiples cosmetic surgery and others intrusive practices, btw.

43 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

vanilla ice cream is bomb👍🏻

It's not worth the rum raisin ice cream but you and the others were not going to understand, one day will come.
Otherwise the chestnut creams too, or the sweetened condensed milk, the "boules coco", the dark chocolates with nazelnuts nestle, the walnut cake of perigord (my region).

French obese snaks.

Edited September 27, 2024 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

17 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

delete? Soy doesn't delete anything. You can't just "delete" an enzyme that's coded by your DNA. If what you mean is temporarily reduce function of 5-Alpha Reductase then that's probably a good thing isn't it? 

But I don't care about mechanisms.

Yes i meant inhibit.

17 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Show me the outcome data. Show me that soy products in moderation cause any endocrine problems?

I've didn't say soy product "in moderation" was an issue.

I've just supposed soy was excessively oestrogenic.

17 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

1000s of people showing protective effects.

Being very full of estrogen is very good for bone mass, it does not mean that it is good everywhere.
Homeostasis.

17 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Ray Pete thinking all over again 

Eheh.

Idk if ray peat has talked about soy and i don't mind, i just eat "instinctively" now and it's not very peaty.

My diet is more closer of WAPF recommendations now, without wanting it.

Edited September 27, 2024 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

8 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

 

Point stands. Why is temporary inhibition of 5AR (although I think its more like temporary reduction, inhibition indicates 100% loss of function) bad? 

 

Because it delete DHT, Androsterone, Androstanediol, 5a-DHP and Allopregnenolone.

11 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

 

Point stands. Why is temporary inhibition of 5AR (although I think its more like temporary reduction, inhibition indicates 100% loss of function) bad? 

You tagged me i this for a reason , right? even tho you knew I'd come after you with the hammer beating you for all your mechanistic speculative arguments 

 

To share because it's still interesting, and ofc by malice because i like troll you a bit here and there.

Thrown a piece of baguette on michael's face*

15 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Soy in moderation is not a problem - can I get a concession on that?

Yes 👍

16 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Eating a bunch of soy is NOT the same as being full of oestrogen, my god! Phytoestrogens aren't the same thing as biological oestrogens. That's an alpha and omega difference. Read into it. You're a scientist, you enjoy this shit so read a few clinical overviews of the phytoestrogen evidence. Let the research tell you the story rather than plugging up gaps in your knowledge with pseudoscience.

They are still oestrogen receptor agonist, even if they are less potent.

It's like saying psilocybin don't increases serotoninergic neurotransmition because bioidentical serotonin might be more potent.

21 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

well, at least you're not a carnivore so that's good

Eheh.