If one has to feel 'enough' within in order to have a relationship what is the point?

[NoSelfSelf]

3 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

So, this whole scheme to criminalize 'needy behavior' really is bullshit. Because what you're saying, to justify this narrative, is that going for a loving individual is a coping-mechanism for internal issues. I mean, come on. 

Im not saying nediness is a problem,be needy,problem is that you will demand things from a woman like you are a man, while you dont have anything to offer since you are busy being needy.Then when shes not giving it to you then you gonna talk shit about them.

If you truly want a loving,nice,sweet innocent woman then okay but the reason you want it is completely different story..

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Love is stronger when you share it with someone. 

But you can't love if you're needy. 

 

Why not share It with your mom, Dog, male friend, etc already?

Or can you share It differently or more intensely with someone of the opposite sex? If that is the case then obviously they have something you dont have inside ( well, you do but for some reason IS not "activated". If It would be i would be able to feel exactly the same looking at a wall Alone in my room than after picking Up 10 Girls straight perfectly) 

Ah?

Edited September 3, 2024 by Javfly33

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, NoSelfSelf said:

 

If you become "the source" then things are on your terms basically and at that point you are in relationship with yourself so she is basically acompany you through how you live your life and how you organize things within yourself. 

Yeah at that point you dont care about them so they start to care about you,you dont need them they need you, but there will always be that unique person you enjoy spenting time and have experiences with but the minute it stops you are not devestated.. 

 

No, i think i completely understand you but holy shit It seems extremely difficult to get to that place from where i am.

How the fuck one becomes the source? If i didnt achieved It after years of grueling sadhana and spiritual work what now? Maybe hit the gym and pray things magically Will change and i Will become "less femenine"? 

@Schizophonia in other words, testosterone to the rescue? 

Edited September 3, 2024 by Javfly33

[NoSelfSelf]

4 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Why not share It with your mom, Dog, male friend, etc already?

Or can you share It differently or more intensely with someone of the opposite sex? If that is the case then obviously they have something you dont have inside ( well, you do but for some reason IS not "activated". If It would be i would be able to feel exactly the same looking at a wall Alone in my room than after picking Up 10 Girls straight perfectly) 

Ah?

Because its different kinds of love 

Its like eating a pizza vs drinking a beer since you put women so high you are baffled by not seeing it as the same category.

[NoSelfSelf]

4 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

No, i think i completely understand you but holy shit It seems extremely difficult to get to that place from where i am lol 

Because you dont know how and in what ways you are blocked to acess it..its all mindset shifts that work together to create that point of experience ,same as how you have right now.But your mindset is i want to get there so i can get women which fucks it all up...everything you do againts yourself takes from "the source"

Edited September 3, 2024 by NoSelfSelf

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

@Javfly33

 

Girls expect you to be attached to her, but in a dominant way, like they are an object. You want to use her to fuck her, make jokes, cook, show her stuff etc etc, in other words use her as a mirror of your reality control (the death drive).

Women, children -> loves someone as a protector, authority figure.

Mature man -> Naturally tends towards a low stress state (death drive) the world naturally becomes an enemy that must be conquered/arranged/maintained to return to comfort.
Loves someone for their ability to be respectful, even submissive.
So you're not going to interact with a girl as a submissive, because your goal is the opposite, both for you and the woman.

@Schizophonia Makes lots of sense, however realistically, energy wise i see a mountain from where i am to that. Maybe i should bath myself in testosterone to see if i can tap more to that death drive

[Salvijus]

13 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Why not share It with your mom, Dog, male friend, etc already?

I agree. Share it with the whole world. But there's only few people you can share it on a most intimate sexual level. Maybe that's the difference. 

[Schizophonia]

4 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@Schizophonia Makes lots of sense, however realistically, energy wise i see a mountain from where i am to that. Maybe i should bath myself in testosterone to see if i can tap more to that death drive

Lol.

You can have fun with testosterone if you want, this will make you more masculine, yes, but ultimately it is above all mental conditioning.

[Lucasxp64]

"One has to love oneself in order to have a relationship" is one more of those saying that are a matter of degree. If you loved yourself to an ultimate degree, nobody knows what you would want, but it definitely wouldn't come from needing to fuck or needing to "feel loved" because you would already see all of it as a fabrication of your mind, those cycles of craving and the actions we take to satisfy those cravings.

Tell me someone that ever said: "I feel at peace with my addictions".

Cravings are supposed to be disturbances in the mind that moves you towards action (Well, hopefully)

A relationship is that.

BE WARNED: Do not spiritually bypass and try to "medicate yourself out of your league" sort of speaking. To be at a low level of development/self-love, and to believe that you can't be in a relationship or, to be somewhat developed, and think you don't need someone, like how Jordan Peterson will be talking about women pursuing their careers and stuff, and later realize they want a baby before their biological time runs out.

Or for young guys in this forum to try to spiritually bypass the needs for satisfying our base needs.

Regardless, it's somewhat of an empty saying if we stretch it too hard.

IN PRACTICE: It does say people should come from a place of self-respect at least, and abundance, and not have our boundaries stepped on, or lower our standards too much because we are desperate. It leads to much more pain to be in a terrible relationship than to try to be on our own.

 

Edited September 3, 2024 by Lucasxp64

[Leo Gura]

Most people who are in relationships are dysfunctional, so obviously you don't need to be any which way to be in a relationship.

You can be in a relationship as a serial killer.

But if you want to maximzie the chance of your relationship going well, then you should work on yourself.

Girls are not attracted to you for your self-improvement work. Don't make this naive mistake. They don't give a damn how developed you are or if you are a serial killer. All they care about is how you make her feel in the moment.

Edited September 4, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

First mistake i see is that you are asking the queastion outside "the source" asking about it,so everything you do from outside its just being in the weaker position of not loving yourself, so you will for example value the time with her so much,you will value her pussy over your dick,you will offer your attention withouth her not doing anything for it giving it all for free,loving her in a way where her needs and wants come first,no boundaries of saying no etc.

So if you not loving yourself you will fail(by giving in all her demands)and be in the weak position in dating.So when you hear i want a guy to take me on 5 dates,buy me gifts etc. You think you must do it to earn her attention,time...

If you become "the source" then things are on your terms basically and at that point you are in relationship with yourself so she is basically acompany you through how you live your life and how you organize things within yourself. 

Yeah at that point you dont care about them so they start to care about you,you dont need them they need you, but there will always be that unique person you enjoy spenting time and have experiences with but the minute it stops you are not devestated.. 

So i cant explain you its like you dont need them ,you dont even want them but its like you see that women you curious about her and you make it happen (desiring without desire its hard to explain if you not in "the source") where now you in a position where you not throwing your dick at her like every guy wanting to fuck but her recognizing you have game(the source) and wants to fuck you which is very different situation.

This is not easy to comprehend when you emotional/feminine.

Your relationship theories are for the immature and people who like to play games. Those women you're describing are usually not the type of women worth investing in by a high-quality man who is looking for an all round loving relationship with a life-long partner and is serious about his dating strategies. Mature men who aren't about games and picking up females from anywhere and hoping he can play these weak games in order to protect himself and his heart are not into these dating styles. Seriously. What you talk about are just young immature stuff for people trying to protect their wounded heart and are most likely to attract someone of a similar caliber. Not necessary for those interested in finding a true life-long and loving relationship. Most men of this caliber love to please their women and gain satisfaction just from this alone. These types of men don't give themselves easily and only certain types of women will get these treatments, one that will never take advantage of his love for her and will give back with loyalty and show up like a real woman should and that man will have earned her trust and vice versa. 

What you talk about are silly games and protection mechanisms. Lots of unnecessary energy and work to be put into a relationship that's not based on true love, respect and of high quality. It's OK for hook ups, swings and game players. 

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

I agree. Share it with the whole world. But there's only few people you can share it on a most intimate sexual level. Maybe that's the difference. 

Ok that makes sense.

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

Lol.

You can have fun with testosterone if you want, this will make you more masculine, yes, but ultimately it is above all mental conditioning.

Mental conditioning, so you are saying my 'feminine approach' to interacting with women is because of mental conditioning or because I haven´t fought the 'castration' anxiety? @Schizophonia

55 minutes ago, Lucasxp64 said:

 

Or for young guys in this forum to try to spiritually bypass the needs for satisfying our base needs.

 

 

@Lucasxp64 You don´t get it, my intention with spirituality was never spiritual bypassing, but rather by improving the way I relate with my mind or body, I would be able to go beyond my limiting beliefs and conditioning.

I seriously do not understand why people keep saying that bullshit of 'spiritual bypassing'. Sadhguru says spirituality 'should enhance you, not impair you'. 

There is no duality between spiritual work and material work, yoga and meditation improves your mental health so you should be able to rip material benefits off it. 

But that doesn't include my point because I was doing sadhana for trascendence of everything, but because I have verified I am not ready for it I have come back to focus into 'material' aspects of life. 

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

All they care about is how you make her feel in the moment.

@Leo Gura Right, makes sense. And honestly it explains why with the same girl I can have amazing flow-moments when it feels she is getting attracted and the next week I became like a needy fuck and suddenly she is so rude and distant.

It seems they can become like a complete different person depending on how you vibe with her. Like they 'mimic' your internal state or something like that. 

Edited September 3, 2024 by Javfly33

[Javfly33]

30 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Your relationship theories are for the immature and people who like to play games. Those women you're describing are usually not the type of women worth investing in by a high-quality man who is looking for an all round loving relationship with a life-long partner and is serious about his dating strategies. Mature men who aren't about games and picking up females from anywhere and hoping he can play these weak games in order to protect himself and his heart are not into these dating styles. Seriously. What you talk about are just young immature stuff for people trying to protect their wounded heart and are most likely to attract someone of a similar caliber. Not necessary for those interested in finding a true life-long and loving relationship. Most men of this caliber love to please their women and gain satisfaction just from this alone. These types of men don't give themselves easily and only certain types of women will get these treatments, one that will never take advantage of his love for her and will give back with loyalty and show up like a real woman should and that man will have earned her trust and vice versa. 

What you talk about are silly games and protection mechanisms. Lots of unnecessary energy and work to be put into a relationship that's not based on true love, respect and of high quality. It's OK for hook ups, swings and game players. 

@NoSelfSelf I have to say she does seem to have a point too here @Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@NoSelfSelf I have to say she does seem to have a point too here @Princess Arabia

👍he won't agree, but that's ok too.

[Tenebroso]

2 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

So, this whole scheme to criminalize 'needy behavior' really is bullshit. Because what you're saying, to justify this narrative, is that going for a loving individual is a coping-mechanism for internal issues. I mean, come on. 

Excellent point, I find something sinister in the drive to make the simple desire to be in a romantic relationship something toxic and wrong.

[Leo Gura]

44 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

It seems they can become like a complete different person depending on how you vibe with her.

They can become a different person just because they are in a different mood. It's not even about you. Although if you put her in a bad mood, God help you.

[Chadders]

3 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

@Javfly33 Ignore all of the power-talk. It's coming from jaded individuals who have not met loving feminine women. 

This whole issue of 'having needs is a problem' is pure nonsense. It's another ideological trap that dating-coaches came up with, bringing in a 'spiritual' angle to it, so that they would have more courses to sell on 'how to not be needy' and 'how to overcome your attachment using the power of meditation' or other crap like that. 

Bottom-line, there are loving individuals in this world. Pure souls. And, there are individuals who are unaware of these pure souls, because of which they only understand the transactional style of relationship. Associate with the pure souls, cut out the other people. 

Spot on brother

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

@Javfly33 Ignore all of the power-talk. It's coming from jaded individuals who have not met loving feminine women. 

This whole issue of 'having needs is a problem' is pure nonsense. It's another ideological trap that dating-coaches came up with, bringing in a 'spiritual' angle to it, so that they would have more courses to sell on 'how to not be needy' and 'how to overcome your attachment using the power of meditation' or other crap like that. 

Bottom-line, there are loving individuals in this world. Pure souls. And, there are individuals who are unaware of these pure souls, because of which they only understand the transactional style of relationship. Associate with the pure souls, cut out the other people. 

👍

[NoSelfSelf]

6 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Your relationship theories are for the immature and people who like to play games. Those women you're describing are usually not the type of women worth investing in by a high-quality man who is looking for an all round loving relationship with a life-long partner and is serious about his dating strategies. Mature men who aren't about games and picking up females from anywhere and hoping he can play these weak games in order to protect himself and his heart are not into these dating styles. Seriously. What you talk about are just young immature stuff for people trying to protect their wounded heart and are most likely to attract someone of a similar caliber. Not necessary for those interested in finding a true life-long and loving relationship. Most men of this caliber love to please their women and gain satisfaction just from this alone. These types of men don't give themselves easily and only certain types of women will get these treatments, one that will never take advantage of his love for her and will give back with loyalty and show up like a real woman should and that man will have earned her trust and vice versa. 

What you talk about are silly games and protection mechanisms. Lots of unnecessary energy and work to be put into a relationship that's not based on true love, respect and of high quality. It's OK for hook ups, swings and game players. 

Well you can only see by the level of your perception so if its games you see who am i to stop you.But beware if there are no "games" then you mind aswell say redpill is true and i would call myself a redpill like an idiot 😂

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

@NoSelfSelf I have to say she does seem to have a point too here @Princess Arabia

If you see that fine too since you dont see what im saying...

[Javfly33]

5 hours ago, QVx said:

@Javfly33 I think what most people are pointing to is that you need to be less selfish in a relationship.

That require you to have more of your needs met independently from the relationship.

Anything that remains can then be enjoyed for what it is without needing it to be something more than that.

 

‘Real Love Is Capable of Being Alone’

"One can be in deep love and yet be alone. In fact, one can be alone only when one is in deep love. The depth of love creates an ocean around you, a deep ocean, and you become an island, utterly alone. Yes, the ocean goes on throwing its waves on your shore, but the more the ocean crashes with its waves on your shore, the more integrated you are, the more rooted, the more centered you are. Love has value only because it gives you aloneness. It gives you space enough to be on your own. 

"But you have an idea of love; that idea is creating trouble – not love itself, but the idea. The idea is that, in love, lovers disappear into each other, dissolve into each other. Yes, there are moments of dissolution – but this is the beauty of life and all that is existential: that when lovers dissolve into each other, the same are the moments when they become very conscious, very alert. That dissolution is not a kind of drunkenness, that dissolution is not unconscious. It brings great consciousness, it releases great awareness. On the one hand they are dissolved – on the other hand for the first time they see their utter beauty in being alone. The other defines them, their aloneness; they define the other. And they are grateful to each other. It is because of the other that they have been able to see their own selves; the other has become a mirror in which they are reflected. Lovers are mirrors to each other. Love makes you aware of your original face.

"Hence, it looks very contradictory, paradoxical, when stated in such a way: ‘Love brings aloneness.’ You were thinking all along that love brings togetherness. I am not saying that it does not bring togetherness, but unless you are alone you cannot be together. Who is going to be together? Two persons are needed to be together, two independent persons are needed to be together. A togetherness will be rich, infinitely rich, if both the persons are utterly independent. If they are dependent on each other, it is not a togetherness – it is a slavery, it is a bondage.

"If they are dependent on each other, clinging, possessive, if they don't allow each other to be alone, if they don't allow each other space enough to grow, they are enemies, not lovers; they are destructive to each other, they are not helping each other to find their souls, their beings. What kind of love is this? It may be just fear of being alone; hence they are clinging to each other. But real love knows no fear. Real love is capable of being alone, utterly alone, and out of that aloneness grows a togetherness."

Osho,  The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha, Vol. 2, Talk #4

@QVx I think you are totally right. I am aiming towards that but damn it feels weird and strange to aim towards that level of independence and love.

But I guess is the only way, the other needy way seems to never bring more than misery and disappointment.