Fasting.

[Salvijus]

I think fasting is beneficial only if you meditate the whole time. 

[Princess Arabia]

Fasting can do wonders for the body depending on the type of fasting. The body needs a break from all that work it does to digest food. On a metabolic level it can be good, but on a Spiritual level, the body couldn't care less about our Spiritual escapades; it's main job is to survive and be of service to the environment. Only the mind cares about all that Spiritual stuff. This is why the body can go through so many physical changes when one awakens or does spiritual work, the nervous system has to be updated to be able to contain all that extra weight. 

[ICURBlessings]

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

It might not be as black & white....

Looking at the thinking behind your reply it is obvious that your view of the metabolic state of Ketosis (Ketogenic state) is curtailed in someway. But, I think you might have a certain curiosity that may lead you - at one point - beyond the limited understanding that you are raising up against what I am attempting to communicate.

You said "Words like "miraculous", "reversal" "optimal for general performance" are tricky to defend." - These words were not chosen as tools for defense or attack - they are the opposites - they lack details because of the role and function they serve- and not because of a role or a function they lack. Basically when I make a statement here in a post in such a forum - I am attempting to communicate "a lot" with as few words as possible. I expect the readers to read in between the lines, and if interested to explore on his own. I am fully aware of the shortcomings, imperfections, and propensity to failure of communication that is thereby established. But for me to provide all the details, data, and sources to backup every little piece of my statements is unrealistic - and may belong in a book, or a course, or a video series - but not here.

What I state is usually a type of culmination with a lot of research behind, and usually with a substantial degree of experience as well. It is given here in the form of a 'conclusion'.

To help understand my background, you should know that I have spent 21 years of my life as an lacto-ovo vegetarian, a period were most of my friends and acquaintances were either vegans or vegetarians - and what we call today "plant-base" proponents. That was before the internet, and I read the books, articles, magazines, and whatever I could get my hands on. It has been about 25 years now that I have shifted away from that diet. I am sharing this here to communicate to you that I am well verse in the thinking, understandings and beliefs that are upheld by the Plant-base ideology. As it use to be an ideology that I had invested myself into.

One may wonder why did I shift away from this ideology - and I don't have a short answer other than saying, that it is through a diversity of scientific interests, more specifically, genetics, biology, nutrition, anthropology/paleontology, among a few others that are less directly related to our subject here.

The world of nutrition/medicine - within the sphere of science - is extremely difficult to distill facts from. This is counter-intuitive, as we usually assume that ‘science’ is a clear-cut body of knowledge. When looking at a very large body of articles representing scientific studies and research – there is a continuous flow of inconsistencies and a continuous lack of perfect-congruity. This is a known fact among professional scientists, but not among the general scientific public.

The art of reading and analyzing scientific articles to extract the true significance of the results - is time consuming, even for the professional - as every detail must be considered. The reason I can claim that in over 99% of studies pertaining to the field of nutrition – the participants are not in Ketosis is obvious to someone who is familiar to a certain degree – including its history - with this field of research. First of all the great, great majority of research on nutrition do not aim to evaluate the metabolic factor which ketosis would represent – as in almost all practical application of nutrition - those that eventually benefit from the research - are NOT normally in a state of ketosis.

When looking at the relatively tiny body of research that may pertain to ketosis – we find mostly animal research – and in the case of studies applied to human that are actually in ketosis (where ketones are effectively measured – this mean not via the breath or urine, but via blood-ketones) to be so scarce that I am pretty confident it will amount to much LESS than 1%.

I must add that even many nutritionists – including scientist have an incomplete understanding of ketosis. A common blunder is to throw the Keto-diet into the same bowl as the Low-Carb diet. In some scientific papers you will see words such as “keto like diet” instead of “low-carb diet”. But when you read into the parameters defining what the authors call “keto like diet” it clearly is NOT a “Keto diet”. From the top of my head, I remember a case where it was something like around 250gr/day of carbs being considered “keto-like” – which shows a clear misapprehension of the Keto diet.

Of course this “under 1%” number will not last long – as proper research genuinely related to the Keto diet has been drastically increasing, and is a phenomenon that is bound to continue to grow exponentially.

The biggest problem with distilling data from research and studies in the field of medicine and nutrition – results from the impact of the ‘special interest’ involved via the financial side of research. And a single nutrition study can demand multiple millions of dollars. In medicine we have the pharmaceutical industry controlling a vast body of research. And in nutrition we have a diversity of ‘special interest bodies’ including massive organization in the food industry, among others.

If you look at the case of the famous Ancel Keys – author of the ‘Seven Countries Study’ among others – you see not only HOW the entire mainstream field of Nutrition, extending globally - can be fundamentally influenced by a very small number of people using completely corrupted data - BUT also HOW a perfectly good scientist can slowly become ‘unscientific’ in the application of his work. Scientists are human, and some will do what they have to do to maintain their financial income, their reputation, and other valued benefits from their career.

There are many sources that brings forth different evidences of the effect of Ketosis/Ketone on patient suffering from Alzheimer. Without spending more time than I want to on this reply – I have on the forefront of my mind the extensive research of Stephen Cunnane. I invite you to look into it through your own research if you are interested.

 

 

 

 

 

You asked “What is "optimal for general performance" exactly? ”

Although this concept covers a very wide range of performance – we can focus on the biology level – since much of human behaviors (physical and mental) are fundamentally dependent, and are affected by the biology of the body.

This comes down to the effect of the Ketogenic state and to the effects of the state where ketones are so low that it is considered NON-Ketogenic. Insulin is directly involved as a key hormone in the mechanism shifting the metabolic state out-of ketosis. As a note we are born in a state of ketosis.

The reason I consider this ‘Ketosis versus not-Ketosis paradigm’ important is because it is an extension of one of the most fundamental principal governing all life on Earth. Physical-Life to exist there must be Physical-Energy. Energy represented by the necessary resources required for a species to survive. And that it be for a micro-organism, a plant, or a mammal - FUNDAMENTALLY these resources fluctuates from lack to abundance.

Humans stands on the shoulders of the evolution of life on this planet, that begin as a mechanism that was designed to answer/adapt to this very fundamental condition of living/thriving in the midst of fluctuating resources. If such resources - since the beginning of life on Earth - were instead continuous, the metabolic processes would exclude the function of the state that we can define today as Not-Ketogenic. Because the fundamental function of the Non-ketogenic state is to store energy – so to survive a period of lack of resources. If resources were continuous, there would no need to biologically store energy.

When studying the evidences unearthed in archaeology, and as part of paleontology, we can see the negative changes to human health that agriculture has brought on. And also we have historical data on the health of aborigines from around the world before their diet was changed due to colonization - that shows a radical shift in long term health. This includes the Inuit who use to be in Ketosis pretty much year around.

If this interest you, I invite you to listen to the lectures of Dr Michael Eades.

 

 

 

 

There is so much more to say and explain about all of this. If you are truly interested you can learn new information by doing your own research.

 

I will mention that there are studies that are controverting the old concept that the brain and nerves cells (neurons) do not naturally regenerate themselves.

You also said “...it would probably not make sense to consider fruits unhealthy, even in high amounts.”

I think fruits in high amount can be unhealthy over time. How bears stores very quickly a large amount of fat is by eating fruits. I was told that bears even develop insulin resistance every year during that period of time when they need to store energy. It is interesting how insulin resistance is part of their survival mechanism.

There so many aspects interrelated to metabolism when comparing the Ketogenic state to the Non-Ketogenic state. The fact that the basic function of the Non-Ketogenic state is to store energy, does affect many biological parameters, such as appetite, satiety, and compulsive eating – all biologically implemented to drive energy storage. These mechanism are directly involved in how human can eat to manage their emotions. Looking into "food addiction" will bring up countless proponents that claim that food can not be considered addictive - because food is not only not toxic but necessary for life itself. However the practitioners that are involved in helping those that have issue with compulsive eating, clearly points to a pattern that is exactly like any other type of addiction, such as to alcohol.

What help me cut through the controversy on food addiction was that I had previously studied alcohol addiction -  and I could recognize the biological and psychological parallels. There is a field of research that is exploring the correlation between dysfunctional behaviors and diet. The tapestry that is evolving is very coherent. Because eating is tightly bound to humans emotional life, the hope of solving global health problems via nutrition is limited. 

 

 

[ICURBlessings]

17 hours ago, Michael569 said:

@ICURBlessings thanks for taking the time to reply. I skimmed through it (I haven't watched the videos yet). I probably disagree with more than I agree with with. There is a lot in your response that warrants deeper scrutiny but it would take hours and hours to continue the conversation so I'll just politely submit my resignation at this point and leave the conversational unfinished. (aware that it was me who started it ) 

Thanks for the debate and your time writing all the responses! 

I graciously Thank you as well 

[shubhamsharma]

On 7/9/2024 at 2:20 PM, Leo Gura said:

God cheated me. That asshole.

Ram dass said when he fasted his pupils got bigger. 

[shubhamsharma]

@Leo Gura you said in your video “5meo dmt magic pill to enlightenment and God” that people have been fasting from quite a long time to see visions and to have spiritual effects.

[shree]

On 9/15/2024 at 0:59 PM, shubhamsharma said:

Ram dass said when he fasted his pupils got bigger. 

Take a hit of 5-MeO-DMT while looking in the mirror. The sheer size of your pupils will freak you out.

 

[UnbornTao]

Occasionally get elated when fasting (coffee might add to that); haven't done long fasts though--longer than 24 hours.

[Human Mint]

On 4/9/2024 at 11:32 AM, Sugarcoat said:

Maybe if you are fatter then it’s easier because you have more fat to burn I don’t know

Right, I too have almost none body fat (BMI of 18.3) and long fasting periods are impossible for me without chicken broth or coconut oil.

[Schizophonia]

On 9/5/2024 at 1:58 PM, ICURBlessings said:

India is home to the world's second highest number of diabetic patients. Within the age group of 20–79 years, India has 74.9 million diabetics in 2021 projected to increase to 124.9 million by 2045"

 

Each time i watch a video from India it feels like most people suffer from hypothyroidism.

They looks lazy, dirty, unhappy in general and they tends to be skinny fat.

 

Edited November 5, 2024 by Schizophonia

[shubhamsharma]

On 5/11/2024 at 6:44 PM, Schizophonia said:

Each time i watch a video from India it feels like most people suffer from hypothyroidism.

They looks lazy, dirty, unhappy in general and they tends to be skinny fat.

 

@Schizophonia what do you want to say? 

[Ajay0]

On 9/4/2024 at 7:53 PM, Schizophonia said:

Lol, how stopping eating would increases your chi ? Its like saying my BMW will go further and faster if i don't put oil in it.

Food is not the only source of energy. 

In yoga and martial arts, there are techniques to gain prana or chi so as to overcome fatigue fast. I know of many yogis who do prodigious work with less or no food intake. And there are many who eat prodigal amounts of food while exerting most painfully to reach the tv remote control. 

In the 'Autoiograhy of a yogi'. Yogananda had cited the examples of Theresa Neumann and Giri Bala as examples of saints who have never eaten for years.

Quote

I was brought up in a relatively manly way so it doesn't interest me, I prefer to be that rugby player who goes to war before eating 2000kcal in one go with his friends. 

That's a cultural difference.

In India , I know of stories of advanced Kalaripayattu martial artists who prepare for duels with fasts and meditation, solitude and silence to increase their chi. 

They can kill a much  heftier opponent by hitting their vital spots in unarmed combat, or in armed combat behead him with a urumi or whip like blade before he can process what is happening, at a split second or twinkling of an eye.

Lots of muscle mass does not figure much in such combat, and they usually result in lack of necessary speed, agility and manueverability which a trained expert can easily exploit.

[Hugo Oliveira]

Fasting is powerful!

But how can you guys go for a week?

On my second day, I don't feel hungry anymore. But I have zero energy, can't do anything, can't sleep, time doesn't pass.

Is it supposed to be that bad?
 

@Princess Arabia
@shubhamsharma
@Spiritual Warfare
@ICURBlessings

[shree]

3 hours ago, Hugo Oliveira said:

Fasting is powerful!

But how can you guys go for a week?

On my second day, I don't feel hungry anymore. But I have zero energy, can't do anything, can't sleep, time doesn't pass.

Is it supposed to be that bad?
 

@Princess Arabia
@shubhamsharma
@Spiritual Warfare
@ICURBlessings

You need to take electrolytes for prolonged fasting.

[Ajay0]

On 8/24/2024 at 11:23 PM, shubhamsharma said:

I am thinking to do 30 days water fasting to transform myself more spiritually. I just wanna know if anyone here has done fasting for that long? And if it is possible? I live in India by the way and before I was only able to do for a week. Any suggestions?

Fasting increases the prana/chi which helps in healing and helps meditate better.

However, fasting for a week or month is not advisable unless you have done the necessary preparation and research, is used to such long fasts, and have a conducive ecosystem around you with experienced guides and medical facilities.

I would recommend intermittent or partial fasting or  fasts for upto three days at the most.

I usually do not eat much at night and avoid dinner and supper as it helps me to rise up early with a clear head. Food taken at night also goes mainly undigested so it is a waste of money and food as well.

Benjamin Franklin in his autobiography has creditted low food intake or fasts with better mental clarity.