Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Breakingthewall]

11 hours ago, Raze said:

I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
— David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister)

“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.”
— David Ben Gurion 

How to be a zionist with those ideas? 

[Nivsch]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

How to be a zionist with those ideas? 

Because the reality is very complex as Jews were themselves after a far worse trauma that I think didn't left them much of a choice but to come to this land. So there is a dynamic here and not one side who is to blame.

Ben Gurion said a lot of different things too. After all he is the first prime minister. If he thought he is only wrong he wouldn't bother to establish Israel.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

56 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Because the reality is very complex as Jews were themselves after a far worse trauma that I think didn't left them much of a choice but to come to this land

They could choose any other land, like Uganda, but they went to Israel because the Bible. That's fanatism don't you think? Then the solution is expell all the Palestinian. If I were Israelite I would emigrate, being zionist is loose your dignity in my opinion. That's what is going to happen more and more after this massacre, that's the Hamas game, show the evilness of Israel to the world and to the Israelites . A lot of Israelites are going to be severely traumatized after this war and are going to loose the faith in their cause. Netanyahu is stupid, he's doing what Hamas want

Edited December 29, 2024 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Ben Gurion said a lot of different things too. After all he is the first prime minister. If he thought he is only wrong he wouldn't bother to establish Israel.

He thinks it's right because it's a biblic mandate for the people chose of god. That's the Zionist reason right?

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

He thinks it's right because it's a biblic mandate for the people chose of god. That's the Zionist reason right?

The Zionist reason is first and foremost to secure Jews in their own home when every other religion can co exist with them according to the declaration of independence. Other streams will though emphasize the biblical compenent more. Depend on the sub group. Don't believe youtube channels full of agenda so fast (I am kidding it isnt personal I am not saying you do).

Edited December 29, 2024 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

@Breakingthewall Don't get me wrong our current hellish government (to Israelis, to the hostages, to Palestinians, to everyone) is the last one I would want to defend. I seperate the two issues.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

47 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

 

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

 

 

8 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Breakingthewall Don't get me wrong our current hellish government (to Israelis, to the hostages, to Palestinians, to everyone) is the last one I would want to defend. I seperate the two issues.

What would be the agenda if the more progressive opposition wins?

[Nivsch]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What would be the agenda if the more progressive opposition wins?

This:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yesh_Atid

The party that represents the Center (not right wing and not Left wing) of Israel.

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

This:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yesh_Atid

The party that represents the Center (not right wing and not Left wing) of Israel.

It says they will not continue occupying land in the West Bank, which they admit that it is immoral, but it does not say that the land already occupied should be returned. It seems that Israel is an immoral state, right? They can say whatever they want on their program about LGBT, fossil fuels, but the reality is that the Jews talk about "great Israel." You know what that looks like, right? Great Germany, depopulating part of Russia of subhumans. Bad business, difficult that it have a good end, but who knows 

Edited December 29, 2024 by Breakingthewall

[Basman]

I feel really sorry for those Palestinians. It is basically over. There is no chance at a decent life for them. Either they are murdered or subject to authoritarian rule, slowly wittled down till they are no more. 

The only long-term solution for the Palestinians I think is to give up. Leave. Surely Israel would consider a permanent cease-fire on the condition that all Palestinians leave. If there where just places that would take them.

The greatest revenge is living.

[Nivsch]

@Breakingthewall It is impossible to evacuate 100K people this is why the negotations were on areas replacement as a compensation to areas that cant be given. For me it sounds fair and moral if it wil be done.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Nivsch said:

@Breakingthewall It is impossible to evacuate 100K people this is why the negotations were on areas replacement as a compensation to areas that cant be given. For me it sounds fair and moral if it wil be done.

Well, it could be. Let's be confident in that at the end the Jews are going to show that they are high level people showing respect to their adversaries, not just hate. Probably this hope is naive but who knows, I think that Jews cannot lower themselves by acting like everyone else, they are supposed to be the chosen people, right? Let's see if it shows.

[Nivsch]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, it could be. Let's be confident in that at the end the Jews are going to show that they are high level people showing respect to their adversaries, not just hate. Probably this hope is naive but who knows, I think that Jews cannot lower themselves by acting like everyone else, they are supposed to be the chosen people, right? Let's see if it shows.

I understand why it may seem that way from outside. This is the nature of looking at societies we aren't familiar with. In reality there are many colors and nuances among the Jews just as among any other society or religion.

[Raze]

5 hours ago, Basman said:

I feel really sorry for those Palestinians. It is basically over. There is no chance at a decent life for them. Either they are murdered or subject to authoritarian rule, slowly wittled down till they are no more. 

The only long-term solution for the Palestinians I think is to give up. Leave. Surely Israel would consider a permanent cease-fire on the condition that all Palestinians leave. If there where just places that would take them.

The greatest revenge is living.

Leave and go where? 

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Basman said:

The only long-term solution for the Palestinians I think is to give up. Leave.

That was Israel's plan all along. That's what all their actions are designed for. Slowly squeeze them out by making their land a living hell.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

[Husseinisdoingfine]

I do actually have a sincere question for those who are really empathic towards the Palestinian cause. 

But why did the Palestinians reject the peace deals that gave them almost everything that they wanted. 

In 2000, Yasser Arafat and Ehud Barak were invited to Camp David to negotiate land. Arafat was offered 90 - 95% of the West Bank (according to ChatGPT). Instead of accepting the deal, the Palestinians launched the second intifada.

And again, in 2008, they were offered 90 - 95% of the West Bank, despite the intifada, and declined it. 

If they had accepted the offer, then with their new autonomous state, they could have passed a law allowing all displaced Palestinians to go to the West Bank, and live happily ever after. But they didn't.

If they [Palestinians] accepted the offer, then there would be none of the encroaching settlements and occupation of the West Bank we keep hearing about. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Husseinisdoingfine

[Nivsch]

[Raze]

3 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I do actually have a sincere question for those who are really empathic towards the Palestinian cause. 

But why did the Palestinians reject the peace deals that gave them almost everything that they wanted. 

In 2000, Yasser Arafat and Ehud Barak were invited to Camp David to negotiate land. Arafat was offered 90 - 95% of the West Bank (according to ChatGPT). Instead of accepting the deal, the Palestinians launched the second intifada.

And again, in 2008, they were offered 90 - 95% of the West Bank, despite the intifada, and declined it. 

If they had accepted the offer, then with their new autonomous state, they could have passed a low allowing all displaced Palestinians to go to the West Bank, and lived happily ever after. But they didn't.

It’s a myth

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/palestinians-sabotaged-the-peace-process/

https://fair.org/home/the-myth-of-the-generous-offer/

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

But why did the Palestinians reject the peace deals that gave them almost everything that they wanted. 

In 2000, Yasser Arafat and Ehud Barak were invited to Camp David to negotiate land. Arafat was offered 90 - 95% of the West Bank (according to ChatGPT). Instead of accepting the deal, the Palestinians launched the second intifada.

And again, in 2008, they were offered 90 - 95% of the West Bank, despite the intifada, and declined it. 

If they had accepted the offer, then with their new autonomous state, they could have passed a low allowing all displaced Palestinians to go to the West Bank, and lived happily ever after. But they didn't.

+1 ❤