Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Raze]

53 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Is it true? Israel recognize it? Maybe it's fake

It’s from a Israeli psychologist who did a study interviewing idf soldiers.

It does match similar accounts at the time.

https://archive.ph/JxOc8

https://archive.ph/YuLU6

Edited December 28, 2024 by Raze

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Look at this article:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israeli_judicial_reform

What is the relationship with the war crimes?  I don't know how the Israelites feel about this, maybe are just isolated cases and Israel investigate and try to act with the most morality possible , whats the feeling there?

[Nivsch]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

ben givir and the fundamentalist, are showing that they are like Hitler and Goebbels, real demons that don't do a genocide because the public opinion, but if they could, they will kill all the Palestinian. Bad for the project of Israel as a nation, low moral, low self esteem.

In Nov 2026 (but most likely before) they will replaced. Need to hold tight. There were a bunch of conditions that came together that made this extreme government possible.

The Liberal sector and Netanyahu's sector were equal in power for 4 different election rounds until the 5th in 2022 when Netanyahu's sector won with the help of couple of coincidents by the way.

Edited December 28, 2024 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What is the relationship with the war crimes?  I don't know how the Israelites feel about this, maybe are just isolated cases and Israel investigate and try to act with the most morality possible , whats the feeling there?

As long as 100 hostages are inside hamas tunnels I think Israelis emotions will be invested mostly in them, what is understandable to my opinion.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Nivsch said:

As long as 100 hostages are inside hamas tunnels I think Israelis emotions will be invested mostly in them, what is understandable to my opinion.

Yes that's the only reason. It's a reason at the end, you can't let the others to cross your limits, then everything is allowed 

5 minutes ago, Raze said:

it’s from a Israeli psychologist who did a study interviewing idf soldiers

it does match similar accounts at the time

https://archive.ph/JxOc8

https://archive.ph/YuLU6

Then the game of Hamas is provoke a huge volume of horror letting their people and themselves being killed to destroy the moral of Israel and it's image , but Israel know it and they will fight for acting moral,.find moral reasoning to their acts, maybe after this they will change their behavior and some coexistence is possible, seems difficult but who knows, now they are very hated

[Raze]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then the game of Hamas is provoke a huge volume of horror letting their people and themselves being killed to destroy the moral of Israel and it's image 

If anything it’s the reverse, prior to Oct 7 israel admitted it blockaded Gaza to keep the economy on the brink of collapse, continued to detain hundreds of Palestinians in prison without charges and refused to engage in any negotiation to release them, and continued expanding West Bank settlements, and even funded hamas themselves to hurt the PA’s negotiation position to end settlements.

The goal is to keep slowly crushing them and when they occasionally lash out start rapidly crushing them until there aren’t any left. 

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, Raze said:

crushing them until there aren’t any left. 

Is that possible nowadays? I don't think so, that's unrealistic, Israel knows that it's impossible 

[Raze]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Is that possible nowadays? I don't think so, that's unrealistic, Israel knows that it's impossible 

Doing it all at once is impossible, they acknowledged that.

Quote

Israeli minister says it may be ‘moral’ to starve 2 million Gazans, but ‘no one in the world would let us’

source: https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/06/middleeast/israeli-minister-smotrich-starve-gazans-intl/index.html

But instead they do it slowly over time.

Quote

“It’s possible to create a situation in which Gaza will have less than half its current population within two years,” Smotrich says.

He also says this “voluntary migration” could serve as a “model” for the West Bank.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/urging-occupation-smotrich-says-voluntary-migration-could-halve-gazas-population-in-2-years/

Edited December 28, 2024 by Raze

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Raze said:

Doing it all at once is impossible, they acknowledged that.

source: https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/06/middleeast/israeli-minister-smotrich-starve-gazans-intl/index.html

But instead they do it slowly over time.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/urging-occupation-smotrich-says-voluntary-migration-could-halve-gazas-population-in-2-years/

seems so. Anyway, being Israel, is there any other option? Let the Palestinian develops, grow in population and coexist with them is possible? Probably they think that it isn't 

[Raze]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

seems so. Anyway, being Israel, is there any other option? Let the Palestinian develops, grow in population and coexist with them is possible? Probably they think that it isn't 

Some liberal Zionist’s support eventually creating a Palestinian state. However it’s less possible now because Gaza is destroyed, settlers moved into the West Bank, and Israel has a growing amount of messianic zionists who believe Israel needs to expand outwards and take those lands among others. And neither liberal nor messianic zionists support a one state solution where Israel annexes the land but gives Palestinians equal rights because then the Palestinian population will be half the country and it won’t be a state where Jews are in majority control.

In addition Palestinians will resist it and then world opinion turns against Israel, which also causes wealthier Jews who tend to be liberal Zionist’s to leave making messianic Zionist’s more influential, but Israel needs support from western governments to maintain its military strength which they can lose if world opinion shifts enough away from them.

Edited December 28, 2024 by Raze

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Raze said:

Some liberal Zionist’s support eventually creating a Palestinian state. However it’s less possible now because Gaza is destroyed, settlers moved into the West Bank, and Israel has a growing amount of messianic zionists who believe Israel needs to expand outwards and take those lands among others. And neither liberal nor messianic zionists support a one state solution where Israel annexes the land but gives Palestinians equal rights because then the Palestinian population will be half the country and it won’t be a state where Jews are in majority control.

In addition Palestinians will resist it and then world opinion turns against Israel, which also causes wealthier Jews who tend to be liberal Zionist’s to leave making messianic Zionist’s more influential, but Israel needs support from western governments to maintain its military strength which they can lose if world opinion shifts enough away from them.

Seems a huge shit without solution. 

[Raze]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Seems a huge shit without solution. 

The USA can get israel to do whatever it wants in theory, so it could just threaten to remove all aid or sanction them unless it changes things, but Israel has a large lobby in the USA which influences which politicians get into power so only ones that listen to Israel get in government.

Because liberal Zionist’s won’t work with the Israeli Arab minority as they don’t want racial change in Israel, I think that the messianic Zionist’s will slowly win due to having larger numbers, but this will overtime erode international support, so without having US pressure to fall back israel start to will rely on using its nuclear threat, which will cause other middle eastern countries to get nukes which make their enemies get nukes, and since Arab states have major internal issues which will get worse due to climate change some will collapse and be replaced by anti-Israel zealots radicalized by current events, since messianic zionists believe the state of Israel expanding and destroying the famous Al Aqsa mosque is part of the end times to bring back the messiah this will result in more large military confrontations. The now weakened Israeli military won’t be able to definitively beat them and won’t political change course due to messianic religious beliefs, so they’ll use the Samson optiom.

Edited December 28, 2024 by Raze

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Raze said:

The USA can get israel to do whatever it wants in theory, so it could just threaten to remove all aid or sanction them unless it changes things, but Israel has a large lobby in the USA which influences which politicians get into power so only ones that listen to Israel get in government.

I think that the messianic Zionist’s will slowly win, but this will overtime erode international support, so without having US pressure to fall back israel start to will rely on using its nuclear threat, which will cause other middle eastern countries to get nukes which make their enemies get nukes, and since Arab states have major internal issues which will get worse due to climate change some will collapse and be replaced by anti-Israel zealots radicalized by current events, and this will result in large military confrontations, but a now weakened Israeli military can’t definitively beat them and won’t change course due to messianic religious beliefs, so they’ll use the Samson option. 

How any Arab country could get nuclear weapons? If any of them is close would be bombed. Israel can't allow it. 

[Raze]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

How any Arab country could get nuclear weapons? If any of them is close would be bombed. Israel can't allow it. 

Iran can already make nukes in a week if it wanted to. Bombing them will just send them deeper underground to make them.

Other Arab states are currently not direct enemies of Israel.

They could also just get them from another country like Russia or North Korea.

Even if they didn’t get nukes large missiles pose enough of a threat to require the Samson option if there is a full scale war.

Edited December 28, 2024 by Raze

[Nivsch]

12 minutes ago, Raze said:

Because liberal Zionist’s won’t work with

Don't wonder later when Israelis put all Palestinians in one box. Look how language distorts the mind.

They aren't "liberal zionists" they are just Israeli normal people, like normal American people and like normal Spanish people.

They aren't any less Liberal than Liberal Americans or Liberal French.

Reality can't be seen clearly with those words.

Edited December 28, 2024 by Nivsch

[Raze]

Just now, Nivsch said:

Don't wonder later when Israelis put all Palestinians in one box. Look how language distorts the mind.

They aren't "liberal zionists" they are just Israeli normal people, like normal American people and like Spanish normal people.

They aren't any less Liberal than Liberal Americans.

They are Israeli people who are liberal zionists. The messianic zionists are also Israeli people.

They are less liberal then liberal Americans because they by and large support the occupation of Palestinians without giving them equal rights. 

[Nivsch]

9 minutes ago, Raze said:

They are less liberal then liberal Americans because they by and large support the occupation of Palestinians without giving them equal rights. 

Most people aren't knowledgable in this issue and think in terms of security and thats it. As well as me before this war. 

You also can't expect caring from people who suffer 30 years of terror attacks coming from your side's extremists.

In this reality, the Liberal values will naturally be invested in other topics like LGBTQ, Veganism, Women rights etc. This is natural and understandable. Your side has gained the distrust Israelis feel towards you. 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

18 minutes ago, Raze said:

Iran can already make nukes in a week if it wanted to. Bombing them will just send them deeper underground to make them.

Other Arab states are currently not direct enemies of Israel.

They could also just get them from another country like Russia or North Korea.

Even if they didn’t get nukes large missiles pose enough of a threat to require the Samson option if there is a full scale war.

Israel now is showing that if it's attacked it will respond extremely hard, then at the end this is the only wise strategy for Israel, being weak now means war in the future, showing extreme harshness now could make anyone think in if really want that fight. What else to do? Abandon Israel would be the only other option.

Edited December 28, 2024 by Breakingthewall

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Most people aren't knowledgable in this issue and think in terms of security and thats it. As well as me before this war. 

You also can't expect caring from people who suffer 30 years of terror attacks coming from your side's extremists.

In this reality, the Liberal values will naturally be invested in other topics like LGBTQ, Veganism, Women rights etc. This is natural and understandable. Your side has gained the distrust Israelis feel towards you. 

Terror attacks were a response to the occupation.

The security situation only worsened as the occupation worsened.

The global left is rejecting the Israeli left for apartheid. 

[Nivsch]

6 minutes ago, Raze said:

Terror attacks were a response to the occupation.

The security situation only worsened as the occupation worsened.

The global left is rejecting the Israeli left for apartheid. 

But also the occupation has worsened a lot because the terror has worsened.

50% Of Israelis wanted Two State solution before the Palestinians decided to ruin this too.

Edited December 28, 2024 by Nivsch