Israel / Palestine news thread

[Vrubel]

@Nivsch Be wary to not get dragged into needless drama. Some people have fragile psyches others just lash out for the sake of it. 

Loud as the hivemind is we have friends in the West. Decent Upstanding people, like Joe Biden. 

[Danioover9000]

   Is this not genocidal rhetoric, by a mainstream Israeli journalist?

 

[Danioover9000]

@Vrubel

5 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

@Nivsch Be wary to not get dragged into needless drama. Some people have fragile psyches others just lash out for the sake of it. 

Loud as the hivemind is we have friends in the West. Decent Upstanding people, like Joe Biden. 

   I partly agree with you here, albeit you'll have to explain what you mean by others here having 'fragile psyches' and 'lashing outs'? Also, if true that some users have fragile psyches and lash out, then this would be an argument against you and the 2 other users that came at me, name called and demonized me and some of the other users for our opinions and justifications? Is this you admitting that your rhetoric is similar to hate speech and you intending to cause psychological distress? and that you wanted another situation like Soonhei to occur with your hate speech onto other users with 'fragile psyches' that lash out''?

[Merkabah Star]

40 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

@Nivsch Be wary to not get dragged into needless drama. Some people have fragile psyches others just lash out for the sake of it. 

Loud as the hivemind is we have friends in the West. Decent Upstanding people, like Joe Biden. 

He cant even read from a teleprompter. 

 

[royce]

17 hours ago, Merkabah Star said:

This is an excellent interview. Piers Morgan is such a wanker, which is obvious by the way he treats Professor Mearsheimer with his questions. 

10/10

[royce]

7 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Merkabah Star  @royce  @Bobby_2021  Is to realistic to expect the USA to get less involved with Israel? Boycott it? Stop spending American taxpayer money on them?

bro i don't expect anything 

[Vibes]

3 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@Nivsch Be wary to not get dragged into needless drama. Some people have fragile psyches others just lash out for the sake of it. 

Loud as the hivemind is we have friends in the West. Decent Upstanding people, like Joe Biden. 

That sounds a lot like 'children of the light VS children of the darkness'.

You guys are so egotistical, you think it's all about 'Jew hate'. But I understand...

Edited April 27 by Vibes

[Danioover9000]

@Vibes

Just now, Vibes said:

That sounds a lot like 'children of the light VS children of the darkness'.

You guys are so egotistical, it's all about 'Jew hate' for you. But I understand...

   Main issue is about @Nivsch or @Vrubel having a 'Jew hate' victim mindset, the main issue is the brainwashing and propaganda by the Likud party of Netanyahu's cabinet for the past 80 plus years that's polarizing Israel's citizens. The Likud party bunch of alt right Zionist and their genocidal rhetoric, equally applies to HAMMA's genocidal rhetoric as well, is polarizing most normal people in between, in that region trying to live normal lives as best they can.

[Vibes]

52 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Vibes

   Main issue is about @Nivsch or @Vrubel having a 'Jew hate' victim mindset, the main issue is the brainwashing and propaganda by the Likud party of Netanyahu's cabinet for the past 80 plus years that's polarizing Israel's citizens. The Likud party bunch of alt right Zionist and their genocidal rhetoric, equally applies to HAMMA's genocidal rhetoric as well, is polarizing most normal people in between, in that region trying to live normal lives as best they can.

Yeah...

[Nivsch]

8 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@Nivsch Be wary to not get dragged into needless drama. Some people have fragile psyches others just lash out for the sake of it. 

Yes maybe it was a mistake. I will remember it for next times.

Edited April 28 by Nivsch

[Bobby_2021]

7 hours ago, royce said:

@Merkabah Star  @royce  @Bobby_2021  Is to realistic to expect the USA to get less involved with Israel? Boycott it? Stop spending American taxpayer money on them?

@Danioover9000

US is also a hostage held by Israel. Unless Israel willingly releases them, they don't have much of a choice.

Edited April 28 by Bobby_2021

[Nivsch]

9 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

@Danioover9000

US is also a hostage held by Israel. Unless Israel willingly releases them, they don't have much of a choice.

US and Israel are together for the same reasons Gaza and Iran are - deep roots of common value systems.

There is no such a thing that Israel "drags" US or the opposite, this is not the case at all.

Edited April 28 by Nivsch

[Bobby_2021]

4 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

US and Israel are together for the same reasons Gaza and Iran are - deep roots of common value systems.

Gaza are Sunni Muslims and Iran are Shia Muslims. They are enemies for the most part. Iran is funding those terror groups only to terrorise Israel, not because of similar value systems.

If Shia and Sunni were at the same place there would be even more terror attacks lmao.

They would be more comfortable living with Christians instead.

Israel and US doesn't have much of shared values. Writing the constitution in favour of a specific ethnicity would be unimaginable in the US. Israel is ruled by far right and US is farther to the left. Majority of the US population don't like sending aid to Israel. 

Israel lobby has bought their politicians and their carrer depends on the lobby money, so they don't have much of a choice. If those politicians don't support Israel, then they would fund their opposition to the teeth and it would be over for them. 

12 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

There is no such a thing that Israel "drags" US or the opposite, this is not the case at all.

If you have been following the news, you would know that America is not happy with Israel at all. 

This is all in contrast to the character of America who is the first to lecture every country on human rights. This is definitely clunky and awkward coming from America and the west in general including the UK. 

There are too many contradictions in their statements that it looks like a joke to be frank.

[Bobby_2021]

The correct thing to do, or that should have been done is universal demilitarization. Every country would pledge to spend less on military and would take steps to not poke into each other at the same time.

Give security assurances and act like it.

Sadly we missed that mark that took human progress back a couple of decades. Hopefully the world would be a better place by 2030s when the dust settles down.

[zazen]

20 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@zazen The "Ethnic cleansing" narrative is a myth, for many reasons:

1. This video:

2. The 90s - decade of four different signed agreements between Israelis and Palestinians.

3. Genuine and long lasting trials of Ehud Barak (2000), Ariel Sharon (2002-2005), Ehud Olmert (2006-2008) and Tzipi Livni (2013-14) to achieve a two state solution.

4. Upper and under ground fences surrounding Gaza costed ~ 10 Billion dollars, the prove Israel didn't want to to mess with Gaza but to put it behind.

5. Shrinking of compulsory service in Israeli army from 3 years to ~2.6 years and the rise of "tiny but smart army" paradigm based mainly on technology (before oct 7th).

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/how-start-nation-brand-failed-israel/676308/

When you have time, I wrote you a comment above.

Thanks for the information man. There is a spectrum to definitions and words. Genocide isn’t just mass extermination of a group (like the Holocaust was), it can be the destruction of a group in whole or in part.

Ethnic cleansing involves forcibly displacing an ethnic group, either by relocating them to another country or moving them within the same territory but off their land. This can happen without changing the overall population, like when Palestinians are moved from one part of the West Bank to another to make way for settlements. The total population of Palestinians hasn’t changed in West Bank, yet ethnic cleansing has occurred via displacement. Both can be true at the same time.
 

That’s been going on for decades without much prosecution from Israel and is instead tacitly facilitated by it when the IDF just stand by and watch settlers do what they do. Israel won’t acknowledge the statehood of 5 million Palestinians in Gaza or West Bank but will still control them externally (Gaza) or internally (West Bank). Israel can’t afford to absorb both areas into a larger Israeli state because Jews will become a minority - they instead let both territories remain in limbo for who knows how long.

The 10 billion dollar smart fence surrounds Gaza. Even the word used is fence rather than border - because border usually means between two sovereign states. France ‘surrounds’ Monaco like Italy ‘surrounds’ the Vatican - except those are borders shared by two sovereigns not one sovereign nation (Israel) fencing in a unrecognised territory under siege. They don’t want anything to do with Gaza but won’t allow Gaza to do anything they want either and restrict them from the world.

Edited April 28 by zazen

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

America is not happy with Israel at all

Biden is not happy with Netanyahu and the way he manage this war. Both have interest that hamas will be eliminated.

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

is ruled by far right and US is farther to the left.

At this moment.

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Israel and US doesn't have much of shared values

For sure they have. Compare Israel-US to the Arab world's values. Israel and US share individual freedom values and work together from day one in a very deep co-operation across security and intelligence systems of both states.

Edited April 28 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Israel lobby has bought their politicians and their carrer depends on the lobby money, so they don't have much of a choice.

This is just a symptom (in the positive sense) and not the cause, and negligible comparing to the whole dynamic.

Edited April 28 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

4 hours ago, zazen said:

Thanks for the information man. There is a spectrum to definitions and words. Genocide isn’t just mass extermination of a group (like the Holocaust was), it can be the destruction of a group in whole or in part.

Ethnic cleansing involves forcibly displacing an ethnic group, either by relocating them to another country or moving them within the same territory but off their land. This can happen without changing the overall population, like when Palestinians are moved from one part of the West Bank to another to make way for settlements. The total population of Palestinians hasn’t changed in West Bank, yet ethnic cleansing has occurred via displacement. Both can be true at the same time.
 

That’s been going on for decades without much prosecution from Israel and is instead tacitly facilitated by it when the IDF just stand by and watch settlers do what they do. Israel won’t acknowledge the statehood of 5 million Palestinians in Gaza or West Bank but will still control them externally (Gaza) or internally (West Bank). Israel can’t afford to absorb both areas into a larger Israeli state because Jews will become a minority - they instead let both territories remain in limbo for who knows how long.

The 10 billion dollar smart fence surrounds Gaza. Even the word used is fence rather than border - because border usually means between two sovereign states. France ‘surrounds’ Monaco like Italy ‘surrounds’ the Vatican - except those are borders shared by two sovereigns not one sovereign nation (Israel) fencing in a unrecognised territory under siege. They don’t want anything to do with Gaza but won’t allow Gaza to do anything they want either and restrict them from the world.

   True, and what's so frustrating with people like Destiny is they get to joke and weasel around like this, play with definitions and red herring here and there. Like he's delusion goes so far as to say in Twitter that he'd not consider it genocide even if you drop a nuke in Gaza...and he's getting more popular lately in YT and Twitter. It's pretty concerning he gets away with blatantly immoral statements like that.

[Nivsch]

5 hours ago, zazen said:

Genocide isn’t just mass extermination of a group (like the Holocaust was), it can be the destruction of a group in whole or in part.

According to this, every complex dynamics between two conflicting sides might be called a Genocide. Such inflation in those terms not only cheapen their value, but very quickly becomes an easy bypass for the brain from dealing with reality when at every moment it can shortcut his way to satisfaction by using this key word.

Then there are no longer two sides that escalating one another in thousands small steps, but only "one side" which is the problematic. That is a very convincing illusion for the crowd in the universities, but not for who hear about agreements, peace negotiations and terror attacks for 30 years.

Edited April 28 by Nivsch

[Raze]