Israel / Palestine News Thread

[royce]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

It isn't the whole picture

I am surprised because the picture shows that all Arab countries are fighting Israel, while in reality, only the Gaza Strip and southern Lebanon are fighting Israel and America. The rulers of the Arab countries in red, controlled by America , and they are also fighting Gaza, especially the surrounding countries, Egypt and Jordan. If you follow their policies more deeply

 

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

a conceptual division was created between them and the rest of the Muslim / Arab world -

This point has some truth to it, but not in the way you imagine. There is a genocide happening in Gaza, and Arabs and Muslims are watching it on Al Jazeera. I agree with you. But do you know the number of detainees in Egypt and Jordan because of Palestine? Do you know how many opinion prisoners there are in the Arab world? Do you know that Arab countries from east to west are ruled with iron and fire? So, it depends on how you look at the issue. If you look at the result, yes, I agree with you. But if you delve deeper, among the 400 million Arabs, there are a million ready to die for Palestine (Regardless of Muslims). and October 7th charged this sentiment in a terrifying way. The matter is related to the survival of Arab regimes.

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

There will not be a two state solution

I know there won't be a two-state solution, and it's possible that all Palestinians may be displaced from their land. But why do you want all this without resistance? You can go ahead with your project, and the Palestinians will follow theirs. You don't know what's best for them more than they do, even if their path leads to death.

Palestine is precious ;;)  you must struggle to attain it. The war is very long

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

The alternative is one side wins. Maybe "your" side wins, and justice is served. I'm guessing this applies more to @royce 

No, I don't see things that way — my side winning or losing. I view things with complete neutrality. But how can you expect me not to stand with the oppressed against the oppressor? I don’t claim to be a good person, but does all this injustice really not stir anything in you?

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

@royce than yourself, who is happy to see dead Zionists

Yes, I feel happy when I see a dead Zionist, because they are the aggressors. Let the Israeli mother taste the same cup that the Palestinian mother is drinking from. Maybe then she will understand something about the suffering of the people her son is killing.

 

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

Ok great, now all of the Jews are wiped out from the area. Will this extermination be justice? Will a fight to the death where Palestinians are exiled be justice?

This talk is unrealistic and disconnected from the reality when you look at the current balance of power in the world. The Jews have killed 50,000 people and injured 100,000, and you're telling me all of the Jews are wiped out from  the region? What you're saying doesn't make sense. I liked your first response; it was more reasonable than this. Don’t play the victim – you're the aggressor and the stronger right now because of USA , Stick with that

Edited October 15, 2024 by royce

[royce]

oh

 

Edited October 15, 2024 by royce

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, royce said:

I am surprised because the picture shows that all Arab countries are fighting Israel, while in reality, only the Gaza Strip and southern Lebanon are fighting Israel and America. The rulers of the Arab countries in red, controlled by America , and they are also fighting Gaza, especially the surrounding countries, Egypt and Jordan. If you follow their policies more deeply

 

It isn't about fighting Israel, but more about the idea of Arab / Muslim land as opposed to Jewish.

Quote

This point has some truth to it, but not in the way you imagine. There is a genocide happening in Gaza, and Arabs and Muslims are watching it on Al Jazeera. I agree with you. But do you know the number of detainees in Egypt and Jordan because of Palestine? Do you know how many opinion prisoners there are in the Arab world? Do you know that Arab countries from east to west are ruled with iron and fire? So, it depends on how you look at the issue. If you look at the result, yes, I agree with you. But if you delve deeper, among the 400 million Arabs, there are a million ready to die for Palestine (Regardless of Muslims). and October 7th charged this sentiment in a terrifying way. The matter is related to the survival of Arab regimes.

Unfortunately I'm struggling to understand what you're saying here. My point was related to the Palestinians being forcefully classified as a different entity. What do the 400 million believe about this? And why?

Quote

I know there won't be a two-state solution, and it's possible that all Palestinians may be displaced from their land. But why do you want all this without resistance? You can go ahead with your project, and the Palestinians will follow theirs. You don't know what's best for them more than they do, even if their path leads to death.

Palestine is precious ;;)  you must struggle to attain it. The war is very long

And what makes you think you know what's best? You seem to be very opinionated about the fact that endless resistance is their best course.

Quote

No, I don't see things that way — my side winning or losing. I view things with complete neutrality. But how can you expect me not to stand with the oppressed against the oppressor? I don’t claim to be a good person, but does all this injustice really not stir anything in you?

I don't expect anything from you. I think it's natural most will side the Palestinians on the matter as the original aggression was against them. And of course the injustice troubles me, so as I wrestle with it I consider different trains of thought here. I'd like to see the Palestinians do well, and have the least amount of bloodshed altogether for all involved.

Quote

Yes, I feel happy when I see a dead Zionist, because they are the aggressors. Let the Israeli mother taste the same cup that the Palestinian mother is drinking from. Maybe then she will understand something about the suffering of the people her son is killing.

And what do you believe this understanding will do? Is this revenge against an Israeli mother going to make her more sympathetic to the Palestinians? Or do you just want there to be pain? Why? And is this 18 year old soldier who lost his life the real problem? Btw I believe the same about the young Hamas combatants. All of the combatants are victims of circumstance. If they were each born on the other side, they would likely fight for the other side.

Quote

This talk is unrealistic and disconnected from the reality when you look at the current balance of power in the world. The Jews have killed 50,000 people and injured 100,000, and you're telling me all of the Jews are wiped out from  the region? What you're saying doesn't make sense. I liked your first response; it was more reasonable than this. Don’t play the victim – you're the aggressor and the stronger right now because of USA , Stick with that

I'm playing no victim, as I laid out both possibilities with an endless resistance. I do think it is more likely the Palestinians are wiped out, but it is completely possible the Jews are as well. It is only a matter of time until Iran obtains nuclear weapons. Really anything can happen on a long enough timeline.

[Nemra]

4 minutes ago, hundreth said:

It isn't about fighting Israel, but more about the idea of Arab / Muslim land as opposed to Jewish.

What if that is the boogeyman for Israel to keep attacking?

[hundreth]

4 minutes ago, Nemra said:

What if that is the boogeyman for Israel to keep attacking?

You believe Israel wants to conquer all Arab / Muslim land?

The truth is this ongoing war empowers the worst sheisters in society to gain an edge and influence. I never even heard of "Greater Israel" once until October 7. The war fuels extremism. 

Edited October 15, 2024 by hundreth

[Nemra]

Just now, hundreth said:

You believe Israel wants to conquer all Arab / Muslim land?

No, the lands they claim that it's given them by God or have been living there in the past, where Arabs are currently living.

But if this conflict continues, then I think Israel could find justifications to expand its territories.

[PurpleTree]

I had a magazine with Israeli propaganda in my mail.

Haven’t really looked at it but on the main page it says something like "why a Palestinian state can never exist"

wild 🦭

[Nemra]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can have whatever percentage of whoever in a nation without having to devote your nation to one privileged ethnicity or religion.

This kind of privileging leads to racist policy and oppression of minorities.

Obviously I don't expect Israel to appreciate this or change.

I don't think Israel is going to be less racist unless the Holocaust and antisemitism become irrelevant.

[zazen]

57 minutes ago, hundreth said:

The truth is this ongoing war empowers the worst sheisters in society to gain an edge and influence. I never even heard of "Greater Israel" once until October 7. The war fuels extremism. 

That’s the problem. Threats to survival empower warrior archetypes to secure the peoples safety. Outsiders see these types in the spotlight of politics and leadership then equate the society as such. When people’s safety is at risk they’re going to select for leaders that exude strength regardless of them having other extreme views they may oppose.

But the problem with Israel is that the way its set up assures continuous threats in the form of resistance to occupation. This continuously tilts politics into a politics of fear that calls for the strong man types ie to the right.

Also, to maintain the occupation and domination of the Palestinian people with a clear conscience, many Israelis are driven to dehumanize them as a coping mechanism. But the more you dehumanize a people, the easier it becomes to justify oppression. That escalates the violence and further entrenches the need to see the oppressed as less than human, creating a vicious spiral of dehumanization and brutality.

This is why blaming Netanyahu, Itamar Ben Gvir or Bezalel Smotrich is like scapegoating and skirting away from the major issue. The root of the problem is deeper - it’s embedded in the structure of permanent occupation where survival politics reinforce extremism and further dehumanization, locking both Israelis and Palestinians into an endless conflict.

Edited October 15, 2024 by zazen

[royce]

 

[Raze]

 

[Nivsch]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This kind of priveleging leads to racist policy and oppression of minorities.

Inside Israeli cities the situation is quite good in relation to minorities.

This is true that the right wingers grasp any minority as have 'less' value then them, what makes the situation not ideal, but this is true to every other society as well.

Edited October 15, 2024 by Nivsch

[Inliytened1]

5 hours ago, zazen said:

 survival politics reinforce extremism and further dehumanization, locking both Israelis and Palestinians into an endless conflict.

Might as well just take out the word politics because it just comes down to survival.   Politics is just a nice spin to what's really going on.  Israel feels that if it gets too passive it will be a weakness - and who knows perhaps it is.  If the Palestinians were welcomed in who is to say that ultimately Israel wouldn't in the end be overrun by those groups backing them.   So before you crucify understand that the leadership in Israel comes from a place where they have really grown tired of being weak in a world that takes advantage of the weak. 

Where they could do better is knowing where to draw the line.  They can push back yet stop there.  It's paranoia to always think that someone is plotting against you.  Maybe they are, but you can't live your life that way.   Otherwise you end up killing a lot more innocent people than you would have had you retaliated and stopped.   A lot of innocent people were murdered and kidnapped on the Israeli side but we only talk about how bad Israel is because the numbers are higher.   Even one innocent civilian killed is too much. 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2024 by Inliytened1

[royce]

"Nasrallah, aka the Guru of the South"

{ Translated in English }

https://x.com/upholdreality/status/1845951061665661123

https://x.com/revolutionaryem/status/1845536441599730089/video/1

https://x.com/revolutionaryem/status/1843816482897309744/video/1

https://x.com/revolutionaryem/status/1840169944866009450/video/1

Edited October 16, 2024 by royce

[royce]

Hezbollah published :  “We will turn Haifa into Kiryat Shmona and Metula.”

https://x.com/revolutionaryem/status/1846314083546476993

------

"Dead Israeli terrorists were brought back from South Lebanon on stretchers."

https://x.com/Ralmaswri/status/1846311025534238915

[royce]

  

[Lyubov]

 

I think the most realistic strategic path to diminishing Israel is actively supporting politicians in the USA to cut all spending on Israel. It's moving slowy.

[Nivsch]

12 hours ago, zazen said:

But the problem with Israel is that the way its set up assures continuous threats in the form of resistance to occupation. This continuously tilts politics into a politics of fear that calls for the strong man types ie to the right.

I must say to you. This really feels to me like an unsolvable viscous loop both sides are trapped in badly.

Only a one-sided seperation (without an agreement) can graduately moderate the sides. After that maybe the conditions to a deal may ripen.

'Commanders for Israel Security', a movement includes 500 retired IDF Generals, Shin Bet and Mossad members may be the solution becasue they want this kind of physical seperation between the sides:

https://en.cis.org.il/

Edited October 16, 2024 by Nivsch

[royce]

Yossi Melman 

Israeli writer and journalist

[royce]

Maybe 50 terrorist . Who knows